Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Selling low cost is hard to do at a profit.
Collectors often face trying to fill a bunch of holes and they waste a lot of time looking for small priced items one at a time.
Sellers spend too much time listing them one at a time! Buyers looking one at a time.
Most auction sites are trying to go away from these low cost items.
Collectors who want to start new areas of collecting need of lots of low cost items to build the body of their collection.
It is an essential missing ingredients for motivating new collectors.
The cost of shipping can be a substantial barrier for low cost items unless it can be spread among substantial quantities.
The Idea:
Need to create a platform and a system to handle efficiently large quantities of low cost items. It must be flexible, time efficient and simple.
It should be easily adaptable to selling a variety of similar items, stamps by country, B4, covers, M. used, cancellations, topical, etc...
My proposed approach "Pick n Chose" Here is an idea I am throwing for discussion:
Create a space to handle such groups of items.
Allow sellers to offer a large number of similar low cost items in one big offering at a time, and let buyer pick and choose. A minimum of 100 items per listing, but more is better.
It is almost like a sell list, as opposed to a want list.
What I am proposing is to set the same per item price, and a minimum purchase, say 10 items.
Provide photos or scans of the group showing all the items, and label a description of the items.
This makes it simple, saves labor, facilitates selling low cost items, and raises the total value of a transaction, to spread shipping costs.
After each transaction, the remaining items are re-listed at a 10% discount. (sold items are indicated either by re-scanning, or an addendum list at the bottom (less labor))
This allows the initial set price to be higher, and to gradually go down as "choice" items have been sold, or as choices get more limited. It allows grouping stamps of a range of value at one time at a similar piece price.
Comments
I am attaching a test set of pages I did to show what (my proposed method) would look like... it is open for discussion, if you think it may be a good area for SOR to offer.
Some of my own guidelines. I group stamps together with overlapping SCV in the 20c to $1, $0.50- $2.50, and $2-$5, but my price grouping is also determined by how many similar items I have, and by expediency. (I have a personal distrust of the relevance of catalog pricing for all low cost stamps, and these are items I want to share with collectors and move).
I try to list stamps in chronological numbering order, but I may be disorganized, which is fine. If I get more later to add to my pages, I will do it at the end.
I set up blank forms, which I then use for each group I offer. I place stamps on these forms using 3M removable tape (Cat #811), which is archival safe, does not leave marks (not even on MNH stamps) and is easy to move, remove etc.. My blank forms may be on white or colored paper, for my own convenience. Stamps are numbered 1 to n... (n>100). For convenience, you can skip numbers, use two slots for one etc... Stamps are then just referred to by their numbers.
It would be great to have such a capability. It solves the problem of low item prices, too numerous listings, time efficiency, as well as the needs of collectors.
Since price is not very material at the low end, one could set a higher than rock bottom start and gradually drop the per item price (10%?) after each transaction, thus helping move the rest of the items out more rapidly. I would envision 100 items or more offered. That is 100+ per listing, and minimum purchase is for 10 items. It could handle multiple items, topicals, cancellations etc..
Lots of conceptual room for enhancements and improvements, but the simplest system would still be terrific to have!
rrr....
(reduced scans
as an illustration: Fr Andorra, initial per stamp price $0.35) (my idea is to price as follows (per transaction of 10 or more): 1 $0.35, 2. $0.30, 3 0.$25 4 $0.20, 5 $0.15 etc... total flexibility of how you want to do it.
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04:48:24pm
rrr, you can do this right now in the "Sales, Swaps and Auction" topic (subtopic "For Sale"). I do not know why we would need a separate area of the site to accomplish what you want to do.
As a WW buyer, I would like to see a bunch of sellers do exactly as you have illustrated. As a seller, I really like the idea and will be posting something similar soon.
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Good to know B
I may begin to post a substantial amount of low cost material just like that.
My thoughts though is that if we can set up a system for all to adapt too, and some guidelines, it will be a lot easier for all rather than to have each one develop their own approach. That is the only reason to set up a distinct area for this "P & P"...to develop a system for all to use.
Again, I am new here, and I don't want to re-invent anything.
Incidentally, higher quality scans may be better, but they bump against the upper limits of attachments. Wish there was a way to easily adjust down the resolution of the images when they exceed the guidelines. After several rejections, I took iphone photos and email them to myself at a lower quality, then saved the files, but I don't know how to optimize for SOR limits, or to reduce the labor/handling method I devised.
rrr...
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Ralph:
I'm a stamp trader/buyer. From my perspective I like your proposal.
I'm also vulnerable to marketing hype such as :
• free shipping if you buy the entire sheet; or
• x% off for purchasing the remainders on the sheet; or
• super-fab offer if you take two or more sheets; but,
enough, I'm sure you get the idea.
Do it, if successful, you'll soon have competition.
John Derry
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John: any conceptional improvements, variations or further ideas for marketing are good. This is something we can all improve and innovate on.
For simplicity, I have only listed the general idea.
What I am suggesting is a definite SYSTEM. It uses a flexible listing capability (stamps are identified by a number 1->-n, same piece price for each one, scanned images and other info on the form, a gradually decreasing pricing system (to test market forces), and it tries to reduce labor for seller and buyer alike. But it would be the SAME for all to use, when chosen. But it does not prevent one from having a different approach.
It looks at collecting the way I approach it when I am working on my collection, expanding it, or trying to get rid of my duplicates, or even downsizing it.
I set up a bunch of standard forms (I have them going to 300 stamps and also in differing box sizes), then I use a set for each distinct country, topic, cancellations, B4, covers or whatever you want to group and sell. I tried stock books, Lindner uniplates, etc... and I just found this one approach, using my own forms and 3M 811 removable archival tape for mounting, superior for my use. I then group each set of pages together in a sheet protector, and put them then in a 3 ring binder for storage. Right now I have several thousands ready to go, but since I am also using the system to facilitate our stamp club trading, a bit like the old approval books, but you hand out the same material to a lot of people simultaneously, we can work on a succession of topics as we choose.
Room for more ideas welcome. Ideally, we will devise a system for SOR, or not.
rrr...
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One more reason why I like setting it in its own area. You only need to explain and set the rules and procedures once. You provide a system for it. (we could even post standard forms to print and use) The guidelines would become boiler plates for all to use, in this area.
Nothing prevents variations but you will not have to keep explaining the basics.
We can collectively arrive at a system that will appeal to a lot of buyers and/or sellers, who can continue to do business elsewhere as they do now. Hopefully this will work for seasoned collectors as well as beginners (no one says it has to be low cost stamps, just that all piece prices are alike). It could even incorporate complete sets, multiple items, etc.. etc... but I am for initially keeping it as simple as possible.
rrr...
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Testing scan resolution issue with one more example: Egypt my page 6...only for discussion sake. I think higher res would work better, but I understand the constraints. rrr...
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Hello Ralph,
Thanks for starting this discussion. You provide a few fresh ideas which probably will solicit much comment.
As Bobby has already indicated, not having an established system for these kind of sales should not keep you from using our member sales section to get started. In fact, before formalizing a Stamporama sponsored (or endorsed) "system" of standardized sales rules for such offerings, it might be helpful to harvest some actual experiences with buying/selling this way.
I am doubtful, however, if our member sales section as of now provides a sufficient infrastructure for these types of offerings. What you are proposing, in essence, is that sellers scan a whole page of an approval book instead of scanning and listing individual stamps. Because of the size limit for picture uploads, currently whole pages cannot be displayed large enough to facilitate these kind of sales. Accordingly, I would recommend using an external picture hosting service for full size, or even 200% of actual size scans, as a work around for now. Just post a link to your folder with scanned pages on an external picture hosting service (photobucket etc.). Once a stamp sells, you can use a picture editing program and put an X over the stamp and upload the updated picture.
From a technical perspective, Tim perhaps can look into increasing the size limit on pictures such that a regular size picture is displayed in the text, but can be clicked and opens full size (and I mean LARGE) for a detailed look. Currently, all images shown in this thread are too small -- at least for me -- to check perfs, cancels etc. Darker pages, i.e., black pages, for better contrast are also strongly recommended, in my opinion.
In fact, why not cut down on all the extra work of mounting, and instead use black stock pages? While you are at it, you may drop the catalog numbers as well. Specifically, each stock page can be made (for instance) to have thirty-five spots and you number the pages. On each page, you can number the space for each stamp using a small piece of paper (numbers 1-35, five each on a row on a seven row stock page), or you can write on the pages using a white pen. Yes, the pages will be trashed, but if it is a 'system' once the stamps from that page sell, the page can be reused. So the reference to a specific stamps is not "Andorra, Scott#226, spot 88," but "Page 3, #18." The consecutive numbering on your sample pages appears to just add work with little benefit (as far as I can see?).
I would also question the cost/benefit of providing Scott numbers unless watermark varieties etc. exist. We are talking low priced items here. 35 stamps @ 20c ea. = $7.00, assuming all stamps sell (which they won't). As a collector you will likely not consider the cost of your inventory and will assume the stamps were free. So, if cataloging, mounting, scanning, posting, pulling, mailing, and dealing with buyers add up to one hour, $7 is your hourly wage. If you factor in your cost of inventory, less. If the process takes more than an hour, which it will, much less.
So, any burden we can take off the seller -- such as cataloging, if half the Stamporama members are not using Scott anyways, -- will increase the probability that a potential seller will actually put up a page of stamps for sale. In my opinion, if the buyer wants it cheap, such as 10c, 20c a piece, the buyer should be expected to do some of the work. In this price range the value of the stamp is essentially zero and we are only talking whose time is being used. The buyer can pay more, and reimburse the seller's time of cataloging, or pay a lower price and pay partially with his/her own time.
Again, Ralph, these are good ideas. Just some thoughts that crossed my mind. I would certainly welcome such sales offers and might even consider jumping in as a seller if the process is simple enough.
Best,
Arno
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I really like the idea of pick-your-own from scans. Some years ago I sold stamps using a similar method on a website. Stamps were individually priced, but otherwise much the same idea. I used black stock pages and Scott numbers, and people would just e-mail me a list of what they wanted. I would mark items sold on the scans until the page looked too depleted and then I would rescan. It was much more efficient and much less painful than individually scanning, describing and uploading hundreds upon hundreds of individual stamps.
I think this would be a good direction for SOR as an alternative way to facilitate member-to-member sales of lower priced material. However I would caution against trying too hard to devise an SOR system. I believe that most members will want to develop a method that resonates with their own collecting style, the type and quantity of material they have for sale, and other factors. In my experience one of the things that draws people to the hobby is that they enjoy creating systems of their own.
If a number of members begin to post pick-your-own scans in the For Sale section of the DB, I’m sure some natural standards and best practices will emerge.
Ralph
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heyralph and all, have seen this done on auction sites several times. purchased quite a few that way. can be done here quite easily. have thought about, myself. requires a little extra work, though. really more time than I wish to engage in.
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I was one of a few sellers at bidStart who offered "take your pick" listings, but I found it hard to work well there (others seemed to find it works fine for them). I found that buyers typically did not read the description and therefore, the instructions to pick the stamp(s) they wanted from among those shown. Buyers typically saw the scan of several stamps, and read the title, limited to only 60 characters. So you had little space to describe the lot AND instruct the buyer that the listed price was for EACH stamp. I had buyers who thought they were purchasing the lot for 30c, for example, and canceled when I told them otherwise. Also, for some who did know what this was about, they failed to tell you which stamp they wanted! So you had to email them, ask which of these, and they would invariably tell you "anyone will do" or "the third one" but not specify the row. In short, the experience there was very frustrating for me and I pulled such lots.
Here, however, you have the advantage of a whole post to instruct the buyer or trader. I anticipate this will work better than individual listings at a site like bidStart.
One question I did have for the folks who might do this is how they define "low priced items"; do you mean low catalog value or selling price? And either way, what defines "low" (less than $1, less than 50c, less than $5?).
Cheers,
Peter
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01:42:03pm
I just posted the following in the suggested new features sub-topic under the "Stamporama Club Business":
"There has been much discussion on the board recently regarding a section for selling stamps of lower value. Due to the nature of the stamps that will be offered, multiple and large sized images may be required. The current "For Sale" topic would be an acceptable venue, but due to the sizes and number of images, may not be appropriate for the website.
I was thinking that if we had a special section (perhaps another sub-topic of the "Sales, Swaps, and Auction" topic) of the board where HTML coding is enabled (as it is on the Auction board in the description section), we could host our larger (and multiple) images on a site such as photobucket, and viewers would be able to see the images of the stamps we offer without having to click on a link for each individual page.
Where I have needed more than 2 images in an auction, I have used HTML in the description and it works seamlessly and presents a nice, professional look."
Any thoughts? For those unfamiliar with HTML encoding, it is not all that complicated (several tutorials online) and really makes a nice presentation if it is done right.
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My personal opinion about selling inexpensive stamps online is: the only effiecient way is to list them in a store like on bidStart. Otherwise too much trouble listing & relisting even if you do the "pick what you want" thing.Ted.
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I am not a beginning collector unless 1965 counts as the start of stamp collecting. I am in the category I think many SOR members are "returning collector". We took a few years or decades off from stamp collecting and are trying to renew our interest. Any new idea that would help us "returnees" purchase those low value items we are seeking has my interest.
Unless I am buying higher priced items or looking for better used examples of a stamp I am not really interested in a picture of the stamp. The catalog number is fine for me. Of course my current area of collecting is mostly the unsexy and elusive US post 1920 MNH definitive. I do troll the auction looking for one or two stamps to fill holes in my albums. The cost of shipping one or two stamps from a single buyer can be a deal breaker some months and it is disheartening to see another stamp I needed used to send me the stamps I purchased 
I have posted an initial want lists in the Sales, Swaps and Trades section and have bought stamps from a couple helpful members. I just wish there were more members sitting on caches of unneeded items that were using this new area.
As an occasional seller I did spend several rainy days scanning stamps I wanted to sell. But once the scanning was done and if I put my mind to it I am able to post a couple hundred stamps in the auction within a couple hours. If my mark up on the stamps were not already pretty lean I could repost them at a 10% discount. If it were available I would repost the unsold items for another 14 days at the original price. Not everyone is on SOR as frequently as some of us are. For the $2.00 or so I make it isn't worth the time or effort but I feel I am contributing in a small way to SOR and providing a source of stamps for someone else like me.
The recent changes to SOR for the most part have improved my experience on the site. I am looking forward to new features that will make SOR the number one philately club on the web.
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04:57:37pm
Michael
One of the things I really enjoy about my local stamp club meetings is the opportunity to look at stamps and not numbers. By the same token, other members can look through my 5¢ and 10¢ books (and maybe one of my 3¢/stamp grocery bags) and pick the stamps they need. As a buyer, I do not maintain a "want list" for common items as it would entail too much work for I have way too many holes to fill.
As a seller or trader, when I am presented with some one else's "want list" I have tell them I do not keep records of the catalog numbers of common stamps, as I have some 150,000 - 200,000 sitting in books and grocery bags in my closet and am not about to spend the hours, days or even weeks it would take to go through these with tongs in one hand, catalog in another, and want list in another (wait a minute, too many hands!).
To me, the idea of assembling hundreds of common stamps on sheets and scanning them, then selling them for a set price (say 5¢ each) is far more appealing (and much less work) than perusing "want lists" or noting all the catalog numbers of all the stamps I want to sell or trade.
This is why I like rrr’s idea so much. It makes SOR seem more like my local stamp club rather than simply a buying, trading or selling site.
Bobby
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05:03:33pm
There is on thing in the current auction listings that disqualifies the seller's material as far as I am concerned. Small, blurry or distorted scans.
Since so many sellers manage to provide clear reasonably large scale scans, I figure the former are inexcusable.
I am interested in the cancellation, the condition and the perforations.
I am interested in being able to look for potential minor variations.
Accurate color representation, while impossible completely as different color palettes and settings are, well, different, close to reality in very desirable.
Since, when I do use a catalog it is often, Yvert, Facit, Gibbons, Ma's, Sacura or other national catalogs, I seldom care a fig for the Scott numbers.
So, Ralph's idea would be great as long as I can see the scan clearly, and either be large enough to see it well or have the ability to enlarge the scan easily.
But that is just me.
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Any idea that provides more opportunities to sell and procure stamps is worth looking into.
The pictures could be hosted on Photobucket for free or Photobucket Plus for a nominal yearly fee. Photobucket Plus provides almost unlimited upload bandwidth with an onsite display of up to 1024x768. If the image is at a higher resolution and the viewer downloads the image it will then display at the higher resolution on the device.
This would allow someone viewing a lower resolution photo on the board to click on the link or linked photo and be directed to Photobucket.
I set my browser to always open in another window so when I click on an external link I don't lose my connection with SOR. Perhaps a coding guru could make this happen without the need to change browser settings.
My only reservation with using PhotoBucket would be that SOR administrators would lose control over the quality and content of the sales. In the SOR auction WYSIWYG. Even if I delete a photo on SOR it is still available if there is a disagreement. I purchased stamps twice on Bidstart and both times the stamps I received were not the stamps displayed in the photos. I didn't have a problem getting a refund but that isn't the point.
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-->@cdj: The original scans are way too big to load on SOR.
I then took iphone photos and had to downgraded them to the lowest resolution, by sending them by email attachments and then saved them in their current shown format...rush job and not too pretty, but nothing with higher resolution worked...so I was experimenting. Just wanted to show the format, not the finished product. The look and feel.
If it was to post as a sale item, trust me, they would not be out of focus...I absolutely agree, and I agree, scans should be high res.
This idea would work best if this is somehow possible, otherwise may just as well list the cat numbers, which is much easier!
But I like images!
This idea of "P n C" is for discussion. Hopefully there is enough interest to formulate a working approach. Thanks.
rrr..
-->@peter: I just thought of low cost stamps because of their relatively high associated shipping costs..especially if bough a few at a time. Same reason for saying 10 items or more at a time. But it is not necessary to set a limit, is it? Just that I am much more likely to have 100+ 200+ stamps under $1, or $2... than at $5 or $10 each.... But this would work for all variations.
You know that I distrust the relevance of Catalog pricing, so I group them by broad $ range, and flavor it by how many I have. Then by lowering prices in 10% increments, I get around being too "anal" about setting a right price. Clearly a 25c (catalog price) will not sell for 30c (generally) but after several rounds, it will be priced low enough...heck in time even Kim will find it at his price threshold.
rrr...
-->@bobbie I too miss the trading aspect of showing with a stockbook or an album, picking what you want and trading in a similar way for what is offered. Too much worry about Cat Values kills the fun. I like trading one for one! The only reasons to involve $ sale rather than trade is
1. accounting and
2. you never have equal demand and supply, so the mighty dollar is your transaction media to equalize things.
rrr....
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--->@arno some really good ideas arno. let me make a few comments on:
quote""" In fact, why not cut down on all the extra work of mounting, and instead use black stock pages? While you are at it, you may drop the catalog numbers as well. Specifically, each stock page can be made (for instance) to have thirty-five spots and you number the pages. On each page, you can number the space for each stamp using a small piece of paper (numbers 1-35, five each on a row on a seven row stock page), or you can write on the pages using a white pen. Yes, the pages will be trashed, but if it is a 'system' once the stamps from that page sell, the page can be reused. So the reference to a specific stamps is not "Andorra, Scott#226, spot 88," but "Page 3, #18." The consecutive numbering on your sample pages appears to just add work with little benefit (as far as I can see?)."""
I tried stock pages...the stamps slipped with time...it became unruly! Cost was high (imagine 100 pages) you did not want to write on them, etc.. drop a few and you walk away from them in disgust.. and although not mandated, written cat numbers or description on paper adds little time and a lot of valuable info for some buyers.
I found a plain 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of colored paper (I tried all kind of colors...black is not always best! and neither is white!)ideal. I ended up using colors simply to differentiate between my lots...no other reason I like a consecutive system...no source of confusion...a number defines the stamp. You can write in additional info..toss it when done. You can use two slots if you have lots of extra info, or a big stamp. I love mounting with 3M 811 removable tape. No trace and so easy to move your stamp...trust me, you will want to move them. Goes off easily when you are ready to ship. Not a trace on MNH. (I am a techie fanatic! I even called 3M to ascertain the possible drawbacks!) For the really cheap among us, note that you can even reuse the "hinges" and save on the tape...lol
Re:quote """In my opinion, if the buyer wants it cheap, such as 10c, 20c a piece, the buyer should be expected to do some of the work. In this price range the value of the stamp is essentially zero and we are only talking whose time is being used. The buyer can pay more, and reimburse the seller's time of cataloging, or pay a lower price and pay partially with his/her own time."""
Agree, and I don't mean to mandate anything, but catalog numbers help, just like images do. And if, like me, you work from either a stock book, or an album (where duplicates are stacked) it is not much work and a good service to provide to write them on. And there are many places where a proper cat number is imperative...try early Turkey, Palestine just to see what I mean! it is impossible to id them from just photos, yet many are low cost items.
And this system is not restricted to low cost items, just that you are unlikely to have 100s of higher cost items to fit this system. And for higher cost items, there is no perceived need for a new approach, is there?
Again, some great ideas to toss around. I just commented on a couple of things I have already experimented on.
rrr...
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Arno and rrrrRalph: RE: stock pages. Prinz-Plus stock pages have a small thinner "leader" section above the stamp section; you can put a piece of paper with a label for the stamp below it. This won't harm the page, can be changed to accommodate differently sized stamps, etc. The downside is that you would be limited to six rows of stamps maximum on each page.
Here is the page from Prinz
http://prinzverlag.net/oxid/en/Prinz-System/Plus-System/
and an example of a four row page (grey area is the label section).
Cheers,
Peter
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-05-10 07:07:41)
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07:45:46am
Here are the pages as I would post them. If HTML were enabled, the scans would be larger and the details more easily discernible.
After items are sold, it is an easy task to pull up the scan and place an "X" over the sold item, then replace the original scan with this new one.
(I edited this post and deleted 7 pages as I believe I can get the idea across without generating so many comments re the content of the pages. This is just an example of how I envision the submissions to appear, not a finished product - ignore the actual stamps, these are stamps I sell for 2¢ each to stamp club members and give away free to young collectors!) -Bobby-
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Personally, as a potential buyer I would prefer to see the stamps grouped by some theme, for example, by country or by topic (dogs, planes, triangle stamps, etc.).
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I have done some trading based on this principle and it works fine for me. Advantage is the what-you-see-is-what-you-get side of this way of trading, compared to simple wantlists.
Downside is that it is rather time-consuming, preparing and scanning all those pages. I think that will be the main reason for me not to use it very much. Once I have a lot of time on my hands, I will certainly try it to make my stamp exchanges easier and quicker.
Jan-Simon
P.S. I already have all the Egyptian stamps on the example scan. 
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09:42:22am
Certainly Peter. And as a buyer so would I. The pages I submitted are merely an example of layout and the ease with which it can be created. Rather than compose an entirely new book, I just used an already existing approval book I purchased as part of a box lot. The whole process of scanning the book and editing each page with an overlay of the numbering system took less than 30 minutes (excluding the one time creation of the template, which I can now use over and over).
But of course every seller can design his/her own system - there will be no strict rules here. And, of course, I will most likely submit such material since it already exists. It is always a Buyer's prerogative to skip such submissions and go to another listing more to the Buyer's taste.
The same system will work equally well with the type of pages you provided as an example. I have hundreds of pages out of old stockbooks (I am a packrat and throw nothing away
) with the clear-type insert strips and I will be using those.
If I were able to utilize an image hosting site, and use HTML code, the scans would be of much higher quality, but would require less time to create as I would not have to resize each scan to conserve bandwidth on the SOR site.
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Bobby,
While I was the one to say that buyers could be expected to do some of the work when it comes to 10c approvals, I do have to say that your pages are a little too crazy. If you have a bunch of unsorted stamps, why don't you start one page for Sweden, Italy, Fish, or "Africa" etc. in your approval book and fill these up as they come. I guess if one page was not completely filled, or there were only two countries per page, this would not be much of an issue, but "as is" it is needlessly convoluted.
For now, the work around for posting large size images is to host the images somewhere other than Stamporama. For instance, the word document that I posted in the OXFAM thread is hosted "in the cloud" in my dropbox folder. Dropbox is much more elegant than using photobucket, because you keep all your images on your hard drive and don't have to upload each picture individually to some other website. You also don't have to deal with any size limitations or the ads that result from using other websites.
Arno
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--->-@peter I assume these pages are just a random example. I definitely think the system should be used for organized lists, not random..ie by country, and following a chronological system, or by theme...etc
While your system requires just one template, and mine a dozen or so, I still prefer a single number to define each stamp, and not two (a number and a page)...but heck, if it works, and is simpler... Also, more than one approach could be allowed, as, I am sure, we will always face special circumstances.
I am curious how you put the X on sold items. It looks much more effective than my idea to have a SOLD list as a footer after each transaction, but don't you have to scan or re-process the photos? How efficient TIME wise is it, and what software do you use? I like the looks of it, and would adopt it, but NOT if it will add considerable work. Keeping It Simple KIS) is essential to get people to use this system, for sellers or buyers.
Still, I think we may collectively arrive at some workable single or range of solutions that sets SOR apart, as a unique collector club rather than an auction house, for selling/trading these pesky low cost items, here. I still think it should be a dedicated area to do so. Your image quality (is it scanner, at what resolution?), is better than mine (handheld iphone degraded quality). My system is very fast, but I need to stabilize and test lighting issues....it was just a quick sample, not a final product. What is enough for the buyers?
I definitely like the added written info I put on mine, as a buyer!
rrr....
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Here is an sample example with higher numbers per page (40 stamps), showing also why cat numbers may be such an important added info (iphone resolution 200kb)
Should try it with my scanner, but it is currently in my storage locker...so use it just as an example.
rrr...
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11:43:07am
@Arno: I reiterate per my post immediately preceding yours - this is just an example of how to do the pages. This is a pre-existing book used as an example only, not a finished product ready for posting. If everyone is going to judge my suggestion by the content of the example post, perhaps I should remove it. BTW, if I do put this book (along with the other 30 or so penny-a-stamp books I have sitting around) on the board, it will most likely be in an Auction for the entire book! At 5¢-25¢ per stamp (which is what I believe rrr is suggesting) I would group the stamps by country and or theme - but for 1 or 2 cents each, there is no way I would do that much work!
@rrr: I use a FREE image editor/viewer called Infranview ( for a free download, go HERE). It is very flexible, intuitively simple to use, and more powerful than many programs that cost $$$. The "X" is just a text overlay onto an existing scan.
I will now go pick up my daughter, and when I return I will assemble some pages of stamps and actually post them to the Sales topic so everyone can see what I am suggesting (albeit without the HTML encoding tools I am pleading for).
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What are the file-size (in kb), and dimension (in pixel width) limits for SOR?
Tedski
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Of course, those on the site who know me know of my experiment on BidStart with my U-Pick Stamp Stop lots where I did pretty much exactly this, but as Peter said, it was extremely burdensome.
I do wish we could have a single "listing" that you could open up with a single price per stamp. It could be a grid array of photos/scans (I used to use cells of an html table), and a catalog number could be tied to each "cell" behind the scenes (for inventory tracking purposes.
A buyer could scan the pics, click and highlight (toggle on/off) the ones they want to buy, then process the sale when ready. The
Then once bought, it would either vanish, get greyed out, marked as sold, or whatever to indicate it was sold. But without that level of automation in the listing, I'm afraid it's just too burdensome. I found very few buyers to have the patience for it, and there a big burden on me to keep up with ensuring sold items were so marked.
Then BidStart made such listings against the rules, so whatever...
We just need a programmer savvy enough to do it and make it work well!
-Doug
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05:46:43pm
You really want to do this for common stamps? Sounds extremely burdensome to me with very little return. Even retired, I value my time more than this. I do not even catalog common stamps for my own collection. If it is a common variety I either stick it in my album, or relegate it to the bag going to the young folk and beginning collectors in my clubs.
I think you are truly over engineering this entire project. What started out sounding like fun now sounds like work! I do hope you get something set up, but if it entails sorting, cataloging and mounting thousands of nickel and dime stamps, I'll be a buyer, not a seller.
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I have increased the file size limit on uploading images for message posts. Please see the posting at "Image Upload Limitation Changes"
@Bobby, I'm not going to change the discussion board to allow HTML. I'm more likely to change the Auction to use tags similar to the Discussion Board. These tags are much more secure.
You can use the Image tag to display images held on image hosting servers like Photobucket. Similarly, you can use the Link tag to link to them.
Regards ... Tim.
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09:19:22am
Well I do feel foolish! Thanks, Tim, for clarifying the use of the {image} tags. Displaying the larger images I have stored on my host site is really the only reason I wanted HTML. Just proves that if you want the correct answer, you have to ask the right question!
So if I have this correct, I can continues to display multiple images in the auction descriptions even if you disable HTML simply by using the {image} tag?
Thanks
Bobby
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Hi Bobby,
The Discussion Board tags don't work in the Auction yet. I won't take away the ability to use the HTML IMG tag before I implement the Discussion board tags in the Auction.
Regards ... Tim.
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09:58:07am
If I do decide to sell common stamps on any existing or future forum, the format I will use is as follows. I firmly believe that no one should be tied to rigid restrictions on the way in which he/she sells or trades as long as certain guidelines are followed (Such as unambiguous stated price, shipping terms, payments accepted, etc.). Because it will be my intent to dispose of common stamps without regard for catalog value, I will not take the time to check watermarks, perfs, shades, etc., and will ignore catalog numbers and price (I reserve all that effort for better issues which I do not choose to market in batches).
Sample instructions: The stamps displayed on the following pages are available for purchase for "X"¢ each. If you wish to purchase any of these stamps, please send me an email message noting the stamps you wish indicated by page and item number (e.g., Austria02: 8, 36-42). I will immediately reserve the stamps you want that are still available and inform you if any of them were claimed prior to receipt of your message. Once the order is finalized, I will send you a total due which you may pay via cash (US currency), check (USA banks only) or PayPal (PayPal payments entail an extra $0.50 to cover fees). Actual postage will be added to your total.
Here are finalized pages in the larger size now acceptable on the board. The images are 800 pixels x 1100 pixels at 96dpi
page as it initially appears:
page as it appears when items are sold:
This method is easy and assembly of the pages takes but a few minutes each. The stock sheets can be used over and over as all marking are done with image overlays on scans and not on the sheets themselves. My photo editor/viewer is Irfanview and is available online; it is FREE and very easy to use. Just Google the name for a download site (I use CNET).
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Bobby - I just want to make sure on the software you're using. Do you mean IRFANVIEW? Or, is there a program with a similar name?
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11:42:44am
Thanks Michael, you are correct. I am a terrible typist and didn't catch that one when I proofed my message. I have edited my original post to prevent confusion.
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For the purpose under discussion, I think the new scan size limit works just fine. If you have smaller stamps or CDS cancels that would benefit from larger screen size, use a higher scan dpi, but only load the stamps into, say, 2/3 the width of the stock page.
Also, 2 basic image editing skills will help tremendously in your presentation: the crop tool, and the "Levels" adjustment.
Crop the extraneous black margins from the scan and the stamp images can now be that much larger without exceeding overall size limits.
Learn to use the "Levels" adjustment. This is like a "Contrast" control only better, by an order of magnitude. Many scans I see posted have washed out darker tones. The Levels adjustment lets you drag a slider that will deepen the dark tones to increase contrast. You wind up with a darker background by which to better examine the perfs, and clearer cancels to read.
(And, no, this is not altering the image, and providing a false representation. A washed out image used straight from the sscanner is already a false representation. Adjusting the black level returns it to reality (as long as you don't overdo it.)
Cheers,
Tedski
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-->@Bobbie
Just downloaded Irfanview. Pretty neat, although they(?) tried to sell me everything including the kitchen sink.. lol...well they tried.
I am a bit overwhelmed. I suppose until I use it a few times and sort out the few features I really need it opens up an infinite range of possibilities. Do you mind explaining, by private message or in a general post, how you overlay-ed the big yellow X or "SOLD" on the page. I like the idea of standardizing, and it looks pretty clear visually, would like to try the same ones!
Thanks
rrr...
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I use Irfanview for all my images that I upload on the internet, and that has been tens of thousands. Real easy to use.
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I did another test page using IrfanView, a black bacground paper, higher resolution scan (not photo), and overlaying the number as suggested.
Here are my comments: Scanning at a higher resolution is clearly the way to go.
Not sure how much the black paper adds over a color or even white paper...especially for dark colored stamps. It is impossible to write on it, so I had to use stick ons..another no no.
Overlaying the numbers is a Royal Pain! Now, I am new at it, and maybe I need to have a master overlay page, but I imagine that I will not be able to standardize it due to the different sizes of stamps, so I can see constantly tinkering with a powerful, but not friendly, computer program...another no no.
I much prefer my system of writing the info on colored pages (pick your color) which have a consecutive numbering system already on them....1 to...whatever..100, 200, 300 etc. You make your one set of masters and copy them on using the color paper, easy and available whenever you need them, withhout computer work. All this computer labor intensive work is a pain... and I am a techie...so, get a pencil and just write on the paper...anyone can do that. I am sticking to this method myself.
Now the overlay may work to indicate sold items...have to test it next.
Still, FYI, this is what the test page looked like, at the higher resolution of just under 1M.
rrr...
hummm error message: Error: No file uploaded
Error Numer 2, "The uploaded file exceeds the MAX_FILE_SIZE directive that was specified in the HTML form, which is 350,000 bites. " was returned
I thought I could attach the higher resolution image here. Is it restricted to certain boards? Or did I misunderstand?
Now I reduced the size already from the scanned 2M resolution, but not to 350K. What to do next? GOT IT...was too big!
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Ok..slighly lower scan resolution. here is the test sample.
rrrr....
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Ralph,
you can write on black pages using a common white ink pen.
(random picture from internet)
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09:52:42pm
rrrr, you are such a perfectionist!
I do not think it necessary to have the higher resolution, especially for garden variety stamps. I see this project as a way of "recycling" lower valued stamps (getting them from my duplicate pile into the hands of a collector who needs them) and vice versa. So whatever works is the answer. You have the right idea, rrr, go with your strength - you compose very neat, organized pages by hand, I do the same with scans, overlays and a journeyman photo editor, others may do it with the full Adobe suite, doesn't matter if we all get to the same place.
I have tested the new limits Tim has made available for images, and find that 96dpi and a width of 800-900 pixels is more than adequate to display a page of 40 or so stamps with notes, catalog numbers, dates and any other info you want to throw in there. There is no reason why we cannot go ahead and post some "trial balloons" in the For Sale topic. Just remember to follow the rules for that topic so those pesky moderators do not hassle us.
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rrr,
A couple of things I would change on your scan. First, I would not put the numbers on the stamps but maybe above the top row of stamps. That way a buyer could say "I would like stamp 62-5, 63-4, 77-3", you get the idea. Also would think it a waste of time and good space to show seven copies of the same stamp. Show maybe two of each, at the most to offer a page with good variety.
Just suggestions of course.
Mike
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Thanks Mike...just a TEST page... I grabbed a bunch of stamps to see how it looks.
Unless pushing for cancellations, or color/paper variations...and I was testing for those as well to see how the system worked, I would just put one stamp each myself.
As you said,
low cost items (but not necessarily low catalog value), and people collect different things. Myself, in these low cost Palestine, I collect town cancellations... But again...just a test page here.
Due to my travel schedule, I probably will not be around until mid June, at which point I am hoping to put some body of stamps for "Pick n Chose" sales. So I wanted to test a few things for the public discussion boards, and your input (ya'all) has been very valuable.
This last sample tested my new wifi scanner, the photo software, and I also wanted to see how cancellations and color variations presented...so I pushed the resolution up.
Each one of us will probably arrive at variations on the same theme, which is fine, and we will learn as we go. Once an individual system set up, each one of us will probably want to test the waters, with a good quantity of low cost items, without investing too much time and effort ...I myself favor the more remote areas of stamp collecting (no US run of the mill stamps) where I have interesting material to share, offerings are usually limited, and it may inspire some to expand in them, I am talking countries or/and topical...and I am talking about taking the plunge with not hundreds but thousands grouped in just a few areas. 
rrr...
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I think you're better off with the Prinz Plus black sheets; here's an example of a four row sheet to accommodate the selvage on these stamps. Above each stamp row is a small section for a label. Of course, your labels can be printed and cut to size better, but I just wanted to illustrate how this avoids the need to write on sheets or to stick or tape labels on, and can easily accommodate labeling stamps of various sizes.
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Good point Peter. However you have also to think about price of the sheets. You will need 5-10 pages to list about 100-200 low cost stamps. In my approach, paper, ink and tape costs are really incidental, less than 25c per set. Multiply this by ...and you can see why I like just plain paper...flexibility first, color coding for my own inventory system, and write/use and toss when done. I have a master set, and I copy as needed.
Each one his own approach...conceptually similar.
rrr...
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When I scan and list items for sale, I typically use the holder type (6 row, 4 row, etc.) that fits my stamps and re-use it after scanning. I don't leave the stamps in the holder. Here, you can use the holder, identify the stamps and place them in a stockbook in the same order. Why leave them in these holders, which are not as secure as a stockbook. Just a thought.
Cheers,
Peter
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01:20:26pm
And I have a different method! Vive la différence! I think we are all arriving at the same place, but by different roads. I am just getting the swing of the auction forum, so I am spending a lot of time posting there. However, as soon as I need a change, I am going to implement some of these ideas in the "For Sale" topic.
However, before you actually post there, be sure and read the discussion board classified rules as this is a relatively new feature of Stamporama and we are being asked to closely adhere to the guidelines and rules. Also note that there is a 60 day limit on posts in the "Sales" topic, but it is easily circumvented by occasionally posting a "refresh" response to your thread.
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Quote: """Why leave them in these holders, which are not as secure as a stockbook. Just a thought. Cheers, Peter """
Why Peter? less labor, less handling, and less chances of mistakes...which is why I like leaving them on my pages and filing them in a 3 ring binder...my current method is to put each group (1 to 10 pages) in a sheet protector). And since this approach is very cheap, when I am done, I just can remove the leftover, throw away the carrier paper sheets, and reuse the sheet protectors.
rrr...
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Ralph:
May I respectfully suggest that you start selling lower prices stamps on Stamporama according to your vending plan. Your practical selling experiences will do more to determine your marketing success/failure than will anything else.
Personally speaking, I expect to do some work as a stamp buyer and do not need to be spoon-fed by stamp sellers.
I support your idea and wish you success in its implementation.
John Derry
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
08 May 2013
04:02:48pm
The Problem:
Selling low cost is hard to do at a profit.
Collectors often face trying to fill a bunch of holes and they waste a lot of time looking for small priced items one at a time.
Sellers spend too much time listing them one at a time! Buyers looking one at a time.
Most auction sites are trying to go away from these low cost items.
Collectors who want to start new areas of collecting need of lots of low cost items to build the body of their collection.
It is an essential missing ingredients for motivating new collectors.
The cost of shipping can be a substantial barrier for low cost items unless it can be spread among substantial quantities.
The Idea:
Need to create a platform and a system to handle efficiently large quantities of low cost items. It must be flexible, time efficient and simple.
It should be easily adaptable to selling a variety of similar items, stamps by country, B4, covers, M. used, cancellations, topical, etc...
My proposed approach "Pick n Chose" Here is an idea I am throwing for discussion:
Create a space to handle such groups of items.
Allow sellers to offer a large number of similar low cost items in one big offering at a time, and let buyer pick and choose. A minimum of 100 items per listing, but more is better.
It is almost like a sell list, as opposed to a want list.
What I am proposing is to set the same per item price, and a minimum purchase, say 10 items.
Provide photos or scans of the group showing all the items, and label a description of the items.
This makes it simple, saves labor, facilitates selling low cost items, and raises the total value of a transaction, to spread shipping costs.
After each transaction, the remaining items are re-listed at a 10% discount. (sold items are indicated either by re-scanning, or an addendum list at the bottom (less labor))
This allows the initial set price to be higher, and to gradually go down as "choice" items have been sold, or as choices get more limited. It allows grouping stamps of a range of value at one time at a similar piece price.
Comments
I am attaching a test set of pages I did to show what (my proposed method) would look like... it is open for discussion, if you think it may be a good area for SOR to offer.
Some of my own guidelines. I group stamps together with overlapping SCV in the 20c to $1, $0.50- $2.50, and $2-$5, but my price grouping is also determined by how many similar items I have, and by expediency. (I have a personal distrust of the relevance of catalog pricing for all low cost stamps, and these are items I want to share with collectors and move).
I try to list stamps in chronological numbering order, but I may be disorganized, which is fine. If I get more later to add to my pages, I will do it at the end.
I set up blank forms, which I then use for each group I offer. I place stamps on these forms using 3M removable tape (Cat #811), which is archival safe, does not leave marks (not even on MNH stamps) and is easy to move, remove etc.. My blank forms may be on white or colored paper, for my own convenience. Stamps are numbered 1 to n... (n>100). For convenience, you can skip numbers, use two slots for one etc... Stamps are then just referred to by their numbers.
It would be great to have such a capability. It solves the problem of low item prices, too numerous listings, time efficiency, as well as the needs of collectors.
Since price is not very material at the low end, one could set a higher than rock bottom start and gradually drop the per item price (10%?) after each transaction, thus helping move the rest of the items out more rapidly. I would envision 100 items or more offered. That is 100+ per listing, and minimum purchase is for 10 items. It could handle multiple items, topicals, cancellations etc..
Lots of conceptual room for enhancements and improvements, but the simplest system would still be terrific to have!
rrr....
(reduced scans as an illustration: Fr Andorra, initial per stamp price $0.35) (my idea is to price as follows (per transaction of 10 or more): 1 $0.35, 2. $0.30, 3 0.$25 4 $0.20, 5 $0.15 etc... total flexibility of how you want to do it.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
08 May 2013
04:48:24pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
rrr, you can do this right now in the "Sales, Swaps and Auction" topic (subtopic "For Sale"). I do not know why we would need a separate area of the site to accomplish what you want to do.
As a WW buyer, I would like to see a bunch of sellers do exactly as you have illustrated. As a seller, I really like the idea and will be posting something similar soon.
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
08 May 2013
05:24:44pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Good to know B
I may begin to post a substantial amount of low cost material just like that.
My thoughts though is that if we can set up a system for all to adapt too, and some guidelines, it will be a lot easier for all rather than to have each one develop their own approach. That is the only reason to set up a distinct area for this "P & P"...to develop a system for all to use.
Again, I am new here, and I don't want to re-invent anything.
Incidentally, higher quality scans may be better, but they bump against the upper limits of attachments. Wish there was a way to easily adjust down the resolution of the images when they exceed the guidelines. After several rejections, I took iphone photos and email them to myself at a lower quality, then saved the files, but I don't know how to optimize for SOR limits, or to reduce the labor/handling method I devised.
rrr...
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
08 May 2013
05:39:01pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Ralph:
I'm a stamp trader/buyer. From my perspective I like your proposal.
I'm also vulnerable to marketing hype such as :
• free shipping if you buy the entire sheet; or
• x% off for purchasing the remainders on the sheet; or
• super-fab offer if you take two or more sheets; but,
enough, I'm sure you get the idea.
Do it, if successful, you'll soon have competition.
John Derry
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
08 May 2013
06:00:35pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
John: any conceptional improvements, variations or further ideas for marketing are good. This is something we can all improve and innovate on.
For simplicity, I have only listed the general idea.
What I am suggesting is a definite SYSTEM. It uses a flexible listing capability (stamps are identified by a number 1->-n, same piece price for each one, scanned images and other info on the form, a gradually decreasing pricing system (to test market forces), and it tries to reduce labor for seller and buyer alike. But it would be the SAME for all to use, when chosen. But it does not prevent one from having a different approach.
It looks at collecting the way I approach it when I am working on my collection, expanding it, or trying to get rid of my duplicates, or even downsizing it.
I set up a bunch of standard forms (I have them going to 300 stamps and also in differing box sizes), then I use a set for each distinct country, topic, cancellations, B4, covers or whatever you want to group and sell. I tried stock books, Lindner uniplates, etc... and I just found this one approach, using my own forms and 3M 811 removable archival tape for mounting, superior for my use. I then group each set of pages together in a sheet protector, and put them then in a 3 ring binder for storage. Right now I have several thousands ready to go, but since I am also using the system to facilitate our stamp club trading, a bit like the old approval books, but you hand out the same material to a lot of people simultaneously, we can work on a succession of topics as we choose.
Room for more ideas welcome. Ideally, we will devise a system for SOR, or not.
rrr...
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
08 May 2013
06:41:27pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
One more reason why I like setting it in its own area. You only need to explain and set the rules and procedures once. You provide a system for it. (we could even post standard forms to print and use) The guidelines would become boiler plates for all to use, in this area.
Nothing prevents variations but you will not have to keep explaining the basics.
We can collectively arrive at a system that will appeal to a lot of buyers and/or sellers, who can continue to do business elsewhere as they do now. Hopefully this will work for seasoned collectors as well as beginners (no one says it has to be low cost stamps, just that all piece prices are alike). It could even incorporate complete sets, multiple items, etc.. etc... but I am for initially keeping it as simple as possible.
rrr...
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
08 May 2013
06:58:07pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Testing scan resolution issue with one more example: Egypt my page 6...only for discussion sake. I think higher res would work better, but I understand the constraints. rrr...
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Hello Ralph,
Thanks for starting this discussion. You provide a few fresh ideas which probably will solicit much comment.
As Bobby has already indicated, not having an established system for these kind of sales should not keep you from using our member sales section to get started. In fact, before formalizing a Stamporama sponsored (or endorsed) "system" of standardized sales rules for such offerings, it might be helpful to harvest some actual experiences with buying/selling this way.
I am doubtful, however, if our member sales section as of now provides a sufficient infrastructure for these types of offerings. What you are proposing, in essence, is that sellers scan a whole page of an approval book instead of scanning and listing individual stamps. Because of the size limit for picture uploads, currently whole pages cannot be displayed large enough to facilitate these kind of sales. Accordingly, I would recommend using an external picture hosting service for full size, or even 200% of actual size scans, as a work around for now. Just post a link to your folder with scanned pages on an external picture hosting service (photobucket etc.). Once a stamp sells, you can use a picture editing program and put an X over the stamp and upload the updated picture.
From a technical perspective, Tim perhaps can look into increasing the size limit on pictures such that a regular size picture is displayed in the text, but can be clicked and opens full size (and I mean LARGE) for a detailed look. Currently, all images shown in this thread are too small -- at least for me -- to check perfs, cancels etc. Darker pages, i.e., black pages, for better contrast are also strongly recommended, in my opinion.
In fact, why not cut down on all the extra work of mounting, and instead use black stock pages? While you are at it, you may drop the catalog numbers as well. Specifically, each stock page can be made (for instance) to have thirty-five spots and you number the pages. On each page, you can number the space for each stamp using a small piece of paper (numbers 1-35, five each on a row on a seven row stock page), or you can write on the pages using a white pen. Yes, the pages will be trashed, but if it is a 'system' once the stamps from that page sell, the page can be reused. So the reference to a specific stamps is not "Andorra, Scott#226, spot 88," but "Page 3, #18." The consecutive numbering on your sample pages appears to just add work with little benefit (as far as I can see?).
I would also question the cost/benefit of providing Scott numbers unless watermark varieties etc. exist. We are talking low priced items here. 35 stamps @ 20c ea. = $7.00, assuming all stamps sell (which they won't). As a collector you will likely not consider the cost of your inventory and will assume the stamps were free. So, if cataloging, mounting, scanning, posting, pulling, mailing, and dealing with buyers add up to one hour, $7 is your hourly wage. If you factor in your cost of inventory, less. If the process takes more than an hour, which it will, much less.
So, any burden we can take off the seller -- such as cataloging, if half the Stamporama members are not using Scott anyways, -- will increase the probability that a potential seller will actually put up a page of stamps for sale. In my opinion, if the buyer wants it cheap, such as 10c, 20c a piece, the buyer should be expected to do some of the work. In this price range the value of the stamp is essentially zero and we are only talking whose time is being used. The buyer can pay more, and reimburse the seller's time of cataloging, or pay a lower price and pay partially with his/her own time.
Again, Ralph, these are good ideas. Just some thoughts that crossed my mind. I would certainly welcome such sales offers and might even consider jumping in as a seller if the process is simple enough.
Best,
Arno
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
I really like the idea of pick-your-own from scans. Some years ago I sold stamps using a similar method on a website. Stamps were individually priced, but otherwise much the same idea. I used black stock pages and Scott numbers, and people would just e-mail me a list of what they wanted. I would mark items sold on the scans until the page looked too depleted and then I would rescan. It was much more efficient and much less painful than individually scanning, describing and uploading hundreds upon hundreds of individual stamps.
I think this would be a good direction for SOR as an alternative way to facilitate member-to-member sales of lower priced material. However I would caution against trying too hard to devise an SOR system. I believe that most members will want to develop a method that resonates with their own collecting style, the type and quantity of material they have for sale, and other factors. In my experience one of the things that draws people to the hobby is that they enjoy creating systems of their own.
If a number of members begin to post pick-your-own scans in the For Sale section of the DB, I’m sure some natural standards and best practices will emerge.
Ralph
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
heyralph and all, have seen this done on auction sites several times. purchased quite a few that way. can be done here quite easily. have thought about, myself. requires a little extra work, though. really more time than I wish to engage in.
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11:46:21am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
I was one of a few sellers at bidStart who offered "take your pick" listings, but I found it hard to work well there (others seemed to find it works fine for them). I found that buyers typically did not read the description and therefore, the instructions to pick the stamp(s) they wanted from among those shown. Buyers typically saw the scan of several stamps, and read the title, limited to only 60 characters. So you had little space to describe the lot AND instruct the buyer that the listed price was for EACH stamp. I had buyers who thought they were purchasing the lot for 30c, for example, and canceled when I told them otherwise. Also, for some who did know what this was about, they failed to tell you which stamp they wanted! So you had to email them, ask which of these, and they would invariably tell you "anyone will do" or "the third one" but not specify the row. In short, the experience there was very frustrating for me and I pulled such lots.
Here, however, you have the advantage of a whole post to instruct the buyer or trader. I anticipate this will work better than individual listings at a site like bidStart.
One question I did have for the folks who might do this is how they define "low priced items"; do you mean low catalog value or selling price? And either way, what defines "low" (less than $1, less than 50c, less than $5?).
Cheers,
Peter
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
09 May 2013
01:42:03pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
I just posted the following in the suggested new features sub-topic under the "Stamporama Club Business":
"There has been much discussion on the board recently regarding a section for selling stamps of lower value. Due to the nature of the stamps that will be offered, multiple and large sized images may be required. The current "For Sale" topic would be an acceptable venue, but due to the sizes and number of images, may not be appropriate for the website.
I was thinking that if we had a special section (perhaps another sub-topic of the "Sales, Swaps, and Auction" topic) of the board where HTML coding is enabled (as it is on the Auction board in the description section), we could host our larger (and multiple) images on a site such as photobucket, and viewers would be able to see the images of the stamps we offer without having to click on a link for each individual page.
Where I have needed more than 2 images in an auction, I have used HTML in the description and it works seamlessly and presents a nice, professional look."
Any thoughts? For those unfamiliar with HTML encoding, it is not all that complicated (several tutorials online) and really makes a nice presentation if it is done right.
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03:52:10pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
My personal opinion about selling inexpensive stamps online is: the only effiecient way is to list them in a store like on bidStart. Otherwise too much trouble listing & relisting even if you do the "pick what you want" thing.Ted.
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
I am not a beginning collector unless 1965 counts as the start of stamp collecting. I am in the category I think many SOR members are "returning collector". We took a few years or decades off from stamp collecting and are trying to renew our interest. Any new idea that would help us "returnees" purchase those low value items we are seeking has my interest.
Unless I am buying higher priced items or looking for better used examples of a stamp I am not really interested in a picture of the stamp. The catalog number is fine for me. Of course my current area of collecting is mostly the unsexy and elusive US post 1920 MNH definitive. I do troll the auction looking for one or two stamps to fill holes in my albums. The cost of shipping one or two stamps from a single buyer can be a deal breaker some months and it is disheartening to see another stamp I needed used to send me the stamps I purchased
I have posted an initial want lists in the Sales, Swaps and Trades section and have bought stamps from a couple helpful members. I just wish there were more members sitting on caches of unneeded items that were using this new area.
As an occasional seller I did spend several rainy days scanning stamps I wanted to sell. But once the scanning was done and if I put my mind to it I am able to post a couple hundred stamps in the auction within a couple hours. If my mark up on the stamps were not already pretty lean I could repost them at a 10% discount. If it were available I would repost the unsold items for another 14 days at the original price. Not everyone is on SOR as frequently as some of us are. For the $2.00 or so I make it isn't worth the time or effort but I feel I am contributing in a small way to SOR and providing a source of stamps for someone else like me.
The recent changes to SOR for the most part have improved my experience on the site. I am looking forward to new features that will make SOR the number one philately club on the web.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
09 May 2013
04:57:37pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Michael
One of the things I really enjoy about my local stamp club meetings is the opportunity to look at stamps and not numbers. By the same token, other members can look through my 5¢ and 10¢ books (and maybe one of my 3¢/stamp grocery bags) and pick the stamps they need. As a buyer, I do not maintain a "want list" for common items as it would entail too much work for I have way too many holes to fill.
As a seller or trader, when I am presented with some one else's "want list" I have tell them I do not keep records of the catalog numbers of common stamps, as I have some 150,000 - 200,000 sitting in books and grocery bags in my closet and am not about to spend the hours, days or even weeks it would take to go through these with tongs in one hand, catalog in another, and want list in another (wait a minute, too many hands!).
To me, the idea of assembling hundreds of common stamps on sheets and scanning them, then selling them for a set price (say 5¢ each) is far more appealing (and much less work) than perusing "want lists" or noting all the catalog numbers of all the stamps I want to sell or trade.
This is why I like rrr’s idea so much. It makes SOR seem more like my local stamp club rather than simply a buying, trading or selling site.
Bobby
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
09 May 2013
05:03:33pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
There is on thing in the current auction listings that disqualifies the seller's material as far as I am concerned. Small, blurry or distorted scans.
Since so many sellers manage to provide clear reasonably large scale scans, I figure the former are inexcusable.
I am interested in the cancellation, the condition and the perforations.
I am interested in being able to look for potential minor variations.
Accurate color representation, while impossible completely as different color palettes and settings are, well, different, close to reality in very desirable.
Since, when I do use a catalog it is often, Yvert, Facit, Gibbons, Ma's, Sacura or other national catalogs, I seldom care a fig for the Scott numbers.
So, Ralph's idea would be great as long as I can see the scan clearly, and either be large enough to see it well or have the ability to enlarge the scan easily.
But that is just me.
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Any idea that provides more opportunities to sell and procure stamps is worth looking into.
The pictures could be hosted on Photobucket for free or Photobucket Plus for a nominal yearly fee. Photobucket Plus provides almost unlimited upload bandwidth with an onsite display of up to 1024x768. If the image is at a higher resolution and the viewer downloads the image it will then display at the higher resolution on the device.
This would allow someone viewing a lower resolution photo on the board to click on the link or linked photo and be directed to Photobucket.
I set my browser to always open in another window so when I click on an external link I don't lose my connection with SOR. Perhaps a coding guru could make this happen without the need to change browser settings.
My only reservation with using PhotoBucket would be that SOR administrators would lose control over the quality and content of the sales. In the SOR auction WYSIWYG. Even if I delete a photo on SOR it is still available if there is a disagreement. I purchased stamps twice on Bidstart and both times the stamps I received were not the stamps displayed in the photos. I didn't have a problem getting a refund but that isn't the point.
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
09 May 2013
10:04:42pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
-->@cdj: The original scans are way too big to load on SOR.
I then took iphone photos and had to downgraded them to the lowest resolution, by sending them by email attachments and then saved them in their current shown format...rush job and not too pretty, but nothing with higher resolution worked...so I was experimenting. Just wanted to show the format, not the finished product. The look and feel.
If it was to post as a sale item, trust me, they would not be out of focus...I absolutely agree, and I agree, scans should be high res.
This idea would work best if this is somehow possible, otherwise may just as well list the cat numbers, which is much easier!
But I like images!
This idea of "P n C" is for discussion. Hopefully there is enough interest to formulate a working approach. Thanks.
rrr..
-->@peter: I just thought of low cost stamps because of their relatively high associated shipping costs..especially if bough a few at a time. Same reason for saying 10 items or more at a time. But it is not necessary to set a limit, is it? Just that I am much more likely to have 100+ 200+ stamps under $1, or $2... than at $5 or $10 each.... But this would work for all variations.
You know that I distrust the relevance of Catalog pricing, so I group them by broad $ range, and flavor it by how many I have. Then by lowering prices in 10% increments, I get around being too "anal" about setting a right price. Clearly a 25c (catalog price) will not sell for 30c (generally) but after several rounds, it will be priced low enough...heck in time even Kim will find it at his price threshold.
rrr...
-->@bobbie I too miss the trading aspect of showing with a stockbook or an album, picking what you want and trading in a similar way for what is offered. Too much worry about Cat Values kills the fun. I like trading one for one! The only reasons to involve $ sale rather than trade is
1. accounting and
2. you never have equal demand and supply, so the mighty dollar is your transaction media to equalize things.
rrr....
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
09 May 2013
10:51:02pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
--->@arno some really good ideas arno. let me make a few comments on:
quote""" In fact, why not cut down on all the extra work of mounting, and instead use black stock pages? While you are at it, you may drop the catalog numbers as well. Specifically, each stock page can be made (for instance) to have thirty-five spots and you number the pages. On each page, you can number the space for each stamp using a small piece of paper (numbers 1-35, five each on a row on a seven row stock page), or you can write on the pages using a white pen. Yes, the pages will be trashed, but if it is a 'system' once the stamps from that page sell, the page can be reused. So the reference to a specific stamps is not "Andorra, Scott#226, spot 88," but "Page 3, #18." The consecutive numbering on your sample pages appears to just add work with little benefit (as far as I can see?)."""
I tried stock pages...the stamps slipped with time...it became unruly! Cost was high (imagine 100 pages) you did not want to write on them, etc.. drop a few and you walk away from them in disgust.. and although not mandated, written cat numbers or description on paper adds little time and a lot of valuable info for some buyers.
I found a plain 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of colored paper (I tried all kind of colors...black is not always best! and neither is white!)ideal. I ended up using colors simply to differentiate between my lots...no other reason I like a consecutive system...no source of confusion...a number defines the stamp. You can write in additional info..toss it when done. You can use two slots if you have lots of extra info, or a big stamp. I love mounting with 3M 811 removable tape. No trace and so easy to move your stamp...trust me, you will want to move them. Goes off easily when you are ready to ship. Not a trace on MNH. (I am a techie fanatic! I even called 3M to ascertain the possible drawbacks!) For the really cheap among us, note that you can even reuse the "hinges" and save on the tape...lol
Re:quote """In my opinion, if the buyer wants it cheap, such as 10c, 20c a piece, the buyer should be expected to do some of the work. In this price range the value of the stamp is essentially zero and we are only talking whose time is being used. The buyer can pay more, and reimburse the seller's time of cataloging, or pay a lower price and pay partially with his/her own time."""
Agree, and I don't mean to mandate anything, but catalog numbers help, just like images do. And if, like me, you work from either a stock book, or an album (where duplicates are stacked) it is not much work and a good service to provide to write them on. And there are many places where a proper cat number is imperative...try early Turkey, Palestine just to see what I mean! it is impossible to id them from just photos, yet many are low cost items.
And this system is not restricted to low cost items, just that you are unlikely to have 100s of higher cost items to fit this system. And for higher cost items, there is no perceived need for a new approach, is there?
Again, some great ideas to toss around. I just commented on a couple of things I have already experimented on.
rrr...
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06:25:47am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Arno and rrrrRalph: RE: stock pages. Prinz-Plus stock pages have a small thinner "leader" section above the stamp section; you can put a piece of paper with a label for the stamp below it. This won't harm the page, can be changed to accommodate differently sized stamps, etc. The downside is that you would be limited to six rows of stamps maximum on each page.
Here is the page from Prinz
http://prinzverlag.net/oxid/en/Prinz-System/Plus-System/
and an example of a four row page (grey area is the label section).
Cheers,
Peter
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-05-10 07:07:41)
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
10 May 2013
07:45:46am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Here are the pages as I would post them. If HTML were enabled, the scans would be larger and the details more easily discernible.
After items are sold, it is an easy task to pull up the scan and place an "X" over the sold item, then replace the original scan with this new one.
(I edited this post and deleted 7 pages as I believe I can get the idea across without generating so many comments re the content of the pages. This is just an example of how I envision the submissions to appear, not a finished product - ignore the actual stamps, these are stamps I sell for 2¢ each to stamp club members and give away free to young collectors!) -Bobby-
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07:54:18am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Personally, as a potential buyer I would prefer to see the stamps grouped by some theme, for example, by country or by topic (dogs, planes, triangle stamps, etc.).
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Auctions - Approvals
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
I have done some trading based on this principle and it works fine for me. Advantage is the what-you-see-is-what-you-get side of this way of trading, compared to simple wantlists.
Downside is that it is rather time-consuming, preparing and scanning all those pages. I think that will be the main reason for me not to use it very much. Once I have a lot of time on my hands, I will certainly try it to make my stamp exchanges easier and quicker.
Jan-Simon
P.S. I already have all the Egyptian stamps on the example scan.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
10 May 2013
09:42:22am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Certainly Peter. And as a buyer so would I. The pages I submitted are merely an example of layout and the ease with which it can be created. Rather than compose an entirely new book, I just used an already existing approval book I purchased as part of a box lot. The whole process of scanning the book and editing each page with an overlay of the numbering system took less than 30 minutes (excluding the one time creation of the template, which I can now use over and over).
But of course every seller can design his/her own system - there will be no strict rules here. And, of course, I will most likely submit such material since it already exists. It is always a Buyer's prerogative to skip such submissions and go to another listing more to the Buyer's taste.
The same system will work equally well with the type of pages you provided as an example. I have hundreds of pages out of old stockbooks (I am a packrat and throw nothing away) with the clear-type insert strips and I will be using those.
If I were able to utilize an image hosting site, and use HTML code, the scans would be of much higher quality, but would require less time to create as I would not have to resize each scan to conserve bandwidth on the SOR site.
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Bobby,
While I was the one to say that buyers could be expected to do some of the work when it comes to 10c approvals, I do have to say that your pages are a little too crazy. If you have a bunch of unsorted stamps, why don't you start one page for Sweden, Italy, Fish, or "Africa" etc. in your approval book and fill these up as they come. I guess if one page was not completely filled, or there were only two countries per page, this would not be much of an issue, but "as is" it is needlessly convoluted.
For now, the work around for posting large size images is to host the images somewhere other than Stamporama. For instance, the word document that I posted in the OXFAM thread is hosted "in the cloud" in my dropbox folder. Dropbox is much more elegant than using photobucket, because you keep all your images on your hard drive and don't have to upload each picture individually to some other website. You also don't have to deal with any size limitations or the ads that result from using other websites.
Arno
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
10 May 2013
10:51:52am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
--->-@peter I assume these pages are just a random example. I definitely think the system should be used for organized lists, not random..ie by country, and following a chronological system, or by theme...etc
While your system requires just one template, and mine a dozen or so, I still prefer a single number to define each stamp, and not two (a number and a page)...but heck, if it works, and is simpler... Also, more than one approach could be allowed, as, I am sure, we will always face special circumstances.
I am curious how you put the X on sold items. It looks much more effective than my idea to have a SOLD list as a footer after each transaction, but don't you have to scan or re-process the photos? How efficient TIME wise is it, and what software do you use? I like the looks of it, and would adopt it, but NOT if it will add considerable work. Keeping It Simple KIS) is essential to get people to use this system, for sellers or buyers.
Still, I think we may collectively arrive at some workable single or range of solutions that sets SOR apart, as a unique collector club rather than an auction house, for selling/trading these pesky low cost items, here. I still think it should be a dedicated area to do so. Your image quality (is it scanner, at what resolution?), is better than mine (handheld iphone degraded quality). My system is very fast, but I need to stabilize and test lighting issues....it was just a quick sample, not a final product. What is enough for the buyers?
I definitely like the added written info I put on mine, as a buyer!
rrr....
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
10 May 2013
11:07:57am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Here is an sample example with higher numbers per page (40 stamps), showing also why cat numbers may be such an important added info (iphone resolution 200kb)
Should try it with my scanner, but it is currently in my storage locker...so use it just as an example.
rrr...
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
10 May 2013
11:43:07am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
@Arno: I reiterate per my post immediately preceding yours - this is just an example of how to do the pages. This is a pre-existing book used as an example only, not a finished product ready for posting. If everyone is going to judge my suggestion by the content of the example post, perhaps I should remove it. BTW, if I do put this book (along with the other 30 or so penny-a-stamp books I have sitting around) on the board, it will most likely be in an Auction for the entire book! At 5¢-25¢ per stamp (which is what I believe rrr is suggesting) I would group the stamps by country and or theme - but for 1 or 2 cents each, there is no way I would do that much work!
@rrr: I use a FREE image editor/viewer called Infranview ( for a free download, go HERE). It is very flexible, intuitively simple to use, and more powerful than many programs that cost $$$. The "X" is just a text overlay onto an existing scan.
I will now go pick up my daughter, and when I return I will assemble some pages of stamps and actually post them to the Sales topic so everyone can see what I am suggesting (albeit without the HTML encoding tools I am pleading for).
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
What are the file-size (in kb), and dimension (in pixel width) limits for SOR?
Tedski
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Of course, those on the site who know me know of my experiment on BidStart with my U-Pick Stamp Stop lots where I did pretty much exactly this, but as Peter said, it was extremely burdensome.
I do wish we could have a single "listing" that you could open up with a single price per stamp. It could be a grid array of photos/scans (I used to use cells of an html table), and a catalog number could be tied to each "cell" behind the scenes (for inventory tracking purposes.
A buyer could scan the pics, click and highlight (toggle on/off) the ones they want to buy, then process the sale when ready. The
Then once bought, it would either vanish, get greyed out, marked as sold, or whatever to indicate it was sold. But without that level of automation in the listing, I'm afraid it's just too burdensome. I found very few buyers to have the patience for it, and there a big burden on me to keep up with ensuring sold items were so marked.
Then BidStart made such listings against the rules, so whatever...
We just need a programmer savvy enough to do it and make it work well!
-Doug
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
10 May 2013
05:46:43pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
You really want to do this for common stamps? Sounds extremely burdensome to me with very little return. Even retired, I value my time more than this. I do not even catalog common stamps for my own collection. If it is a common variety I either stick it in my album, or relegate it to the bag going to the young folk and beginning collectors in my clubs.
I think you are truly over engineering this entire project. What started out sounding like fun now sounds like work! I do hope you get something set up, but if it entails sorting, cataloging and mounting thousands of nickel and dime stamps, I'll be a buyer, not a seller.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
I have increased the file size limit on uploading images for message posts. Please see the posting at "Image Upload Limitation Changes"
@Bobby, I'm not going to change the discussion board to allow HTML. I'm more likely to change the Auction to use tags similar to the Discussion Board. These tags are much more secure.
You can use the Image tag to display images held on image hosting servers like Photobucket. Similarly, you can use the Link tag to link to them.
Regards ... Tim.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
11 May 2013
09:19:22am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Well I do feel foolish! Thanks, Tim, for clarifying the use of the {image} tags. Displaying the larger images I have stored on my host site is really the only reason I wanted HTML. Just proves that if you want the correct answer, you have to ask the right question!
So if I have this correct, I can continues to display multiple images in the auction descriptions even if you disable HTML simply by using the {image} tag?
Thanks
Bobby
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Auctions - Approvals
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Hi Bobby,
The Discussion Board tags don't work in the Auction yet. I won't take away the ability to use the HTML IMG tag before I implement the Discussion board tags in the Auction.
Regards ... Tim.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
11 May 2013
09:58:07am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
If I do decide to sell common stamps on any existing or future forum, the format I will use is as follows. I firmly believe that no one should be tied to rigid restrictions on the way in which he/she sells or trades as long as certain guidelines are followed (Such as unambiguous stated price, shipping terms, payments accepted, etc.). Because it will be my intent to dispose of common stamps without regard for catalog value, I will not take the time to check watermarks, perfs, shades, etc., and will ignore catalog numbers and price (I reserve all that effort for better issues which I do not choose to market in batches).
Sample instructions: The stamps displayed on the following pages are available for purchase for "X"¢ each. If you wish to purchase any of these stamps, please send me an email message noting the stamps you wish indicated by page and item number (e.g., Austria02: 8, 36-42). I will immediately reserve the stamps you want that are still available and inform you if any of them were claimed prior to receipt of your message. Once the order is finalized, I will send you a total due which you may pay via cash (US currency), check (USA banks only) or PayPal (PayPal payments entail an extra $0.50 to cover fees). Actual postage will be added to your total.
Here are finalized pages in the larger size now acceptable on the board. The images are 800 pixels x 1100 pixels at 96dpi
page as it initially appears:
page as it appears when items are sold:
This method is easy and assembly of the pages takes but a few minutes each. The stock sheets can be used over and over as all marking are done with image overlays on scans and not on the sheets themselves. My photo editor/viewer is Irfanview and is available online; it is FREE and very easy to use. Just Google the name for a download site (I use CNET).
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Bobby - I just want to make sure on the software you're using. Do you mean IRFANVIEW? Or, is there a program with a similar name?
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
11 May 2013
11:42:44am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Thanks Michael, you are correct. I am a terrible typist and didn't catch that one when I proofed my message. I have edited my original post to prevent confusion.
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
For the purpose under discussion, I think the new scan size limit works just fine. If you have smaller stamps or CDS cancels that would benefit from larger screen size, use a higher scan dpi, but only load the stamps into, say, 2/3 the width of the stock page.
Also, 2 basic image editing skills will help tremendously in your presentation: the crop tool, and the "Levels" adjustment.
Crop the extraneous black margins from the scan and the stamp images can now be that much larger without exceeding overall size limits.
Learn to use the "Levels" adjustment. This is like a "Contrast" control only better, by an order of magnitude. Many scans I see posted have washed out darker tones. The Levels adjustment lets you drag a slider that will deepen the dark tones to increase contrast. You wind up with a darker background by which to better examine the perfs, and clearer cancels to read.
(And, no, this is not altering the image, and providing a false representation. A washed out image used straight from the sscanner is already a false representation. Adjusting the black level returns it to reality (as long as you don't overdo it.)
Cheers,
Tedski
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
11 May 2013
09:10:54pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
-->@Bobbie
Just downloaded Irfanview. Pretty neat, although they(?) tried to sell me everything including the kitchen sink.. lol...well they tried.
I am a bit overwhelmed. I suppose until I use it a few times and sort out the few features I really need it opens up an infinite range of possibilities. Do you mind explaining, by private message or in a general post, how you overlay-ed the big yellow X or "SOLD" on the page. I like the idea of standardizing, and it looks pretty clear visually, would like to try the same ones!
Thanks
rrr...
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
I use Irfanview for all my images that I upload on the internet, and that has been tens of thousands. Real easy to use.
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
13 May 2013
08:09:00pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
I did another test page using IrfanView, a black bacground paper, higher resolution scan (not photo), and overlaying the number as suggested.
Here are my comments: Scanning at a higher resolution is clearly the way to go.
Not sure how much the black paper adds over a color or even white paper...especially for dark colored stamps. It is impossible to write on it, so I had to use stick ons..another no no.
Overlaying the numbers is a Royal Pain! Now, I am new at it, and maybe I need to have a master overlay page, but I imagine that I will not be able to standardize it due to the different sizes of stamps, so I can see constantly tinkering with a powerful, but not friendly, computer program...another no no.
I much prefer my system of writing the info on colored pages (pick your color) which have a consecutive numbering system already on them....1 to...whatever..100, 200, 300 etc. You make your one set of masters and copy them on using the color paper, easy and available whenever you need them, withhout computer work. All this computer labor intensive work is a pain... and I am a techie...so, get a pencil and just write on the paper...anyone can do that. I am sticking to this method myself.
Now the overlay may work to indicate sold items...have to test it next.
Still, FYI, this is what the test page looked like, at the higher resolution of just under 1M.
rrr...
hummm error message: Error: No file uploaded
Error Numer 2, "The uploaded file exceeds the MAX_FILE_SIZE directive that was specified in the HTML form, which is 350,000 bites. " was returned
I thought I could attach the higher resolution image here. Is it restricted to certain boards? Or did I misunderstand?
Now I reduced the size already from the scanned 2M resolution, but not to 350K. What to do next? GOT IT...was too big!
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
13 May 2013
08:33:34pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Ok..slighly lower scan resolution. here is the test sample.
rrrr....
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Ralph,
you can write on black pages using a common white ink pen.
(random picture from internet)
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
13 May 2013
09:52:42pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
rrrr, you are such a perfectionist!
I do not think it necessary to have the higher resolution, especially for garden variety stamps. I see this project as a way of "recycling" lower valued stamps (getting them from my duplicate pile into the hands of a collector who needs them) and vice versa. So whatever works is the answer. You have the right idea, rrr, go with your strength - you compose very neat, organized pages by hand, I do the same with scans, overlays and a journeyman photo editor, others may do it with the full Adobe suite, doesn't matter if we all get to the same place.
I have tested the new limits Tim has made available for images, and find that 96dpi and a width of 800-900 pixels is more than adequate to display a page of 40 or so stamps with notes, catalog numbers, dates and any other info you want to throw in there. There is no reason why we cannot go ahead and post some "trial balloons" in the For Sale topic. Just remember to follow the rules for that topic so those pesky moderators do not hassle us.
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re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
rrr,
A couple of things I would change on your scan. First, I would not put the numbers on the stamps but maybe above the top row of stamps. That way a buyer could say "I would like stamp 62-5, 63-4, 77-3", you get the idea. Also would think it a waste of time and good space to show seven copies of the same stamp. Show maybe two of each, at the most to offer a page with good variety.
Just suggestions of course.
Mike
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
14 May 2013
02:14:27am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Thanks Mike...just a TEST page... I grabbed a bunch of stamps to see how it looks.
Unless pushing for cancellations, or color/paper variations...and I was testing for those as well to see how the system worked, I would just put one stamp each myself.
As you said, low cost items (but not necessarily low catalog value), and people collect different things. Myself, in these low cost Palestine, I collect town cancellations... But again...just a test page here.
Due to my travel schedule, I probably will not be around until mid June, at which point I am hoping to put some body of stamps for "Pick n Chose" sales. So I wanted to test a few things for the public discussion boards, and your input (ya'all) has been very valuable.
This last sample tested my new wifi scanner, the photo software, and I also wanted to see how cancellations and color variations presented...so I pushed the resolution up.
Each one of us will probably arrive at variations on the same theme, which is fine, and we will learn as we go. Once an individual system set up, each one of us will probably want to test the waters, with a good quantity of low cost items, without investing too much time and effort ...I myself favor the more remote areas of stamp collecting (no US run of the mill stamps) where I have interesting material to share, offerings are usually limited, and it may inspire some to expand in them, I am talking countries or/and topical...and I am talking about taking the plunge with not hundreds but thousands grouped in just a few areas.
rrr...
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06:54:57am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
I think you're better off with the Prinz Plus black sheets; here's an example of a four row sheet to accommodate the selvage on these stamps. Above each stamp row is a small section for a label. Of course, your labels can be printed and cut to size better, but I just wanted to illustrate how this avoids the need to write on sheets or to stick or tape labels on, and can easily accommodate labeling stamps of various sizes.
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
14 May 2013
12:07:44pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Good point Peter. However you have also to think about price of the sheets. You will need 5-10 pages to list about 100-200 low cost stamps. In my approach, paper, ink and tape costs are really incidental, less than 25c per set. Multiply this by ...and you can see why I like just plain paper...flexibility first, color coding for my own inventory system, and write/use and toss when done. I have a master set, and I copy as needed.
Each one his own approach...conceptually similar.
rrr...
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01:01:40pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
When I scan and list items for sale, I typically use the holder type (6 row, 4 row, etc.) that fits my stamps and re-use it after scanning. I don't leave the stamps in the holder. Here, you can use the holder, identify the stamps and place them in a stockbook in the same order. Why leave them in these holders, which are not as secure as a stockbook. Just a thought.
Cheers,
Peter
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
14 May 2013
01:20:26pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
And I have a different method! Vive la différence! I think we are all arriving at the same place, but by different roads. I am just getting the swing of the auction forum, so I am spending a lot of time posting there. However, as soon as I need a change, I am going to implement some of these ideas in the "For Sale" topic.
However, before you actually post there, be sure and read the discussion board classified rules as this is a relatively new feature of Stamporama and we are being asked to closely adhere to the guidelines and rules. Also note that there is a 60 day limit on posts in the "Sales" topic, but it is easily circumvented by occasionally posting a "refresh" response to your thread.
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
14 May 2013
04:08:02pm
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Quote: """Why leave them in these holders, which are not as secure as a stockbook. Just a thought. Cheers, Peter """
Why Peter? less labor, less handling, and less chances of mistakes...which is why I like leaving them on my pages and filing them in a 3 ring binder...my current method is to put each group (1 to 10 pages) in a sheet protector). And since this approach is very cheap, when I am done, I just can remove the leftover, throw away the carrier paper sheets, and reuse the sheet protectors.
rrr...
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
15 May 2013
12:31:31am
re: A system for selling lower priced stamps
Ralph:
May I respectfully suggest that you start selling lower prices stamps on Stamporama according to your vending plan. Your practical selling experiences will do more to determine your marketing success/failure than will anything else.
Personally speaking, I expect to do some work as a stamp buyer and do not need to be spoon-fed by stamp sellers.
I support your idea and wish you success in its implementation.
John Derry
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