Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Thanks.
Cheers,
Peter
Login to Like
this post
They identify the canceller used by a particular clerk. Of course there's no way to know which clerk or at which post office.
Login to Like
this post
I believe that cancel portion (shown on the stamps) of the duplex will occasionally also identify the service as in MS for mail service, plus now and then one sees a star which by its shape could possibly identify the city if those stars were not uniform and thus traceable that way to a specific city. The last one you show could be an initial of a clerk or the first letter of a city or it could stand for pneumatic tube---just kidding on that one.
Bruce
PS: I think the numerals might also represent different stations in a city.
Login to Like
this post
Thanks guys. I've often wondered if there was something more to these.
Login to Like
this post
I'm looking at an 1887 postal card with a New York City duplex postmark right now and the ellipse killer has the letters PO for presumably Post Office. Without the postmark portion though, it will likely be pretty difficult to trace the locations of most of these unless unique to a particular post office as mentioned earlier.
Bruce
Login to Like
this post
well, there is, Peter, but they are always relative to the PO from which they come. YOu can't identify the PO but you can identify the window, assuming records were kept.
Login to Like
this post
I have quite a collection of these on US airmail stamps. OAHU from Hawaii, a number of NYC post offices, and numbers up to 96. The higher the number, the harder it is to find.
David
Login to Like
this post
Were any of these numbered cancels used on ship mail? I have some Philippine stamps from the 30s with the 1 numeral, for example. I was thinking this was canceled at a US port or in the Philippines as US territory.
Login to Like
this post
David,
Do you have a theory why the higher numbers are harder to find?
Bruce
Login to Like
this post
Stampme:
I understand the numbers to represent wickets or clerk numbers at post offices. I do have some marked AIR MAIL.
It seems to me that perhaps the numbers I have in the forties to the seventies were assigned to specific clerks, perhaps at a larger post office.
My thoughts, for what it is worth.
David
Login to Like
this post
I couldn't help but smile (and commiserate) when I saw your post, Peter. I've got a few thousand of these on 2c Washington cut squares from 1891-1893. Fortunately, a few of the cut squares are large enough to include part of the date stamp and can be identified, but the vast majority will forever remain unknowns.
The only one that is truly unique as far as I know is the one in the lower right-hand corner of this image. It's from Moline, Illinois. I haven't counted, but have several copies in my large stash of these cut squares. I have yet to see this design from any other city.
There may be others that are unique as well, but I haven't had time to investigate. The U.S. Cancellation Club is a great resource and they have a phenomenal quarterly publication. I kept my membership until very recently, primarily because of the quality of that publication. It's just fun to read and look at.
This is a scan I created 10 years ago to show a representative sample of what was showing up on my 2c green Washingtons.
Login to Like
this post
I've been collecting the numeral ones for a while now.
Trying to get every # up to 99....just for fun!
I have quite a few so far.
Randy
Login to Like
this post
"I've been collecting the numeral ones for a while now.
Trying to get every # up to 99....just for fun!
"
I'm confused Randy, are you collecting "ones" or "every #"?
Login to Like
this post
Sorry, David -
every number from 1 to 99....or more, if they go higher than 99!
89 is the highest I have so far. I am far from complete up to that point, however. Many missing numbers along the way!
Randy
Login to Like
this post
By the way -
I'm also trying to collect all the letters of the alphabet on the same type of cancels.
I have nearly half the alphabet so far.
These are just-for-fun collections that somehow I got interested in looking for.
Randy
Login to Like
this post
A couple of years ago I put a collection together of duplex cancels and had a ball with them. I chose to collect them on Scott #210 as the catalog value is very low and I was collecting cancels more than the stamps.
I found many varieties, but no rhyme or reason as to the source of the cancel. In addition to the numbers and letters in the obliteration I sound that the cancels had horizontal and vertical bars as well as circles, split barrels as well as solid barrels, and from 4 to 11 lines.
Since beginning this collection I have found many duplex cancel covers where the additional interest (and value) is in the nature of the cover; first flights, Chicago Expo Pick-up mail, Special Delivery and foreign destination and the list is endless. Here is a link to some of them and the first page of my duplex cancel collection. http://www.ihobb.com/c/DUPLEX_CANCELS.html
(Modified by Moderator on 2015-11-15 07:55:39)
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Randy & ihobb,
There are several sources of information on ellipse cancels. Willard covers them in his study of the "United States Two Cent Red Brown Of 1883-1887. Another good reference although quite old is "Standard Hand Stamp Cancellations on the Bank Note Issues" by Gilbert Barr. This is a reproduction of his articles that ran in The American Philatelist, January 1935-April 1936. The US Cancellation Club does have copies of these articles.
Vince
Login to Like
this post
Robert (ihobb),
Very nice page! Thanks for posting - very interesting stuff!
Vince,
Thanks for the info - I will definitely check on those references.
(Always great info help around here!)
Randy
Login to Like
this post
04:39:19pm
Can anyone help me identify where these duplex cancels are from? Does the number or letter stand for a specific location, or region? Also, the first and second appear similar but the second has no number; is this really a different cancel or we just can't make out the number?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Peter
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
They identify the canceller used by a particular clerk. Of course there's no way to know which clerk or at which post office.
Login to Like
this post
09:37:22pm
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
I believe that cancel portion (shown on the stamps) of the duplex will occasionally also identify the service as in MS for mail service, plus now and then one sees a star which by its shape could possibly identify the city if those stars were not uniform and thus traceable that way to a specific city. The last one you show could be an initial of a clerk or the first letter of a city or it could stand for pneumatic tube---just kidding on that one.
Bruce
PS: I think the numerals might also represent different stations in a city.
Login to Like
this post
05:51:50am
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
Thanks guys. I've often wondered if there was something more to these.
Login to Like
this post
02:41:05pm
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
I'm looking at an 1887 postal card with a New York City duplex postmark right now and the ellipse killer has the letters PO for presumably Post Office. Without the postmark portion though, it will likely be pretty difficult to trace the locations of most of these unless unique to a particular post office as mentioned earlier.
Bruce
Login to Like
this post
Auctions
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
well, there is, Peter, but they are always relative to the PO from which they come. YOu can't identify the PO but you can identify the window, assuming records were kept.
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
I have quite a collection of these on US airmail stamps. OAHU from Hawaii, a number of NYC post offices, and numbers up to 96. The higher the number, the harder it is to find.
David
Login to Like
this post
12:07:15pm
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
Were any of these numbered cancels used on ship mail? I have some Philippine stamps from the 30s with the 1 numeral, for example. I was thinking this was canceled at a US port or in the Philippines as US territory.
Login to Like
this post
03:31:00pm
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
David,
Do you have a theory why the higher numbers are harder to find?
Bruce
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
Stampme:
I understand the numbers to represent wickets or clerk numbers at post offices. I do have some marked AIR MAIL.
It seems to me that perhaps the numbers I have in the forties to the seventies were assigned to specific clerks, perhaps at a larger post office.
My thoughts, for what it is worth.
David
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
I couldn't help but smile (and commiserate) when I saw your post, Peter. I've got a few thousand of these on 2c Washington cut squares from 1891-1893. Fortunately, a few of the cut squares are large enough to include part of the date stamp and can be identified, but the vast majority will forever remain unknowns.
The only one that is truly unique as far as I know is the one in the lower right-hand corner of this image. It's from Moline, Illinois. I haven't counted, but have several copies in my large stash of these cut squares. I have yet to see this design from any other city.
There may be others that are unique as well, but I haven't had time to investigate. The U.S. Cancellation Club is a great resource and they have a phenomenal quarterly publication. I kept my membership until very recently, primarily because of the quality of that publication. It's just fun to read and look at.
This is a scan I created 10 years ago to show a representative sample of what was showing up on my 2c green Washingtons.
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
I've been collecting the numeral ones for a while now.
Trying to get every # up to 99....just for fun!
I have quite a few so far.
Randy
Login to Like
this post
Auctions
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
"I've been collecting the numeral ones for a while now.
Trying to get every # up to 99....just for fun!
"
I'm confused Randy, are you collecting "ones" or "every #"?
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
Sorry, David -
every number from 1 to 99....or more, if they go higher than 99!
89 is the highest I have so far. I am far from complete up to that point, however. Many missing numbers along the way!
Randy
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
By the way -
I'm also trying to collect all the letters of the alphabet on the same type of cancels.
I have nearly half the alphabet so far.
These are just-for-fun collections that somehow I got interested in looking for.
Randy
Login to Like
this post
10:36:51pm
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
A couple of years ago I put a collection together of duplex cancels and had a ball with them. I chose to collect them on Scott #210 as the catalog value is very low and I was collecting cancels more than the stamps.
I found many varieties, but no rhyme or reason as to the source of the cancel. In addition to the numbers and letters in the obliteration I sound that the cancels had horizontal and vertical bars as well as circles, split barrels as well as solid barrels, and from 4 to 11 lines.
Since beginning this collection I have found many duplex cancel covers where the additional interest (and value) is in the nature of the cover; first flights, Chicago Expo Pick-up mail, Special Delivery and foreign destination and the list is endless. Here is a link to some of them and the first page of my duplex cancel collection. http://www.ihobb.com/c/DUPLEX_CANCELS.html
(Modified by Moderator on 2015-11-15 07:55:39)
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
Randy & ihobb,
There are several sources of information on ellipse cancels. Willard covers them in his study of the "United States Two Cent Red Brown Of 1883-1887. Another good reference although quite old is "Standard Hand Stamp Cancellations on the Bank Note Issues" by Gilbert Barr. This is a reproduction of his articles that ran in The American Philatelist, January 1935-April 1936. The US Cancellation Club does have copies of these articles.
Vince
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying US duplex cancels
Robert (ihobb),
Very nice page! Thanks for posting - very interesting stuff!
Vince,
Thanks for the info - I will definitely check on those references.
(Always great info help around here!)
Randy
Login to Like
this post