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Europe/Germany : Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

 

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Revstampman

12 Feb 2014
02:51:58pm
Here are a few stamps that most don’t know exist. The British Wartime Forgeries of the Germania Issue of WW1. If there is an interest I will post other wartime forgeries and how to identify them.

First the 10pf.
Left original, right Forgery

Image Not Found Image Not Found

First lets look at the nose.
Left original, right Forgery
Image Not Found

The original has a distinct line creating the nostril. The forgery is more of a blob.

Now the "H" in Deutsches
Image Not Found

The original has a distinct well formed crossbar in the "H". The forgery is too short.

The originals are perforated 14:14½ with the lozenges watermank.
The Forgeries are perforated 15:14¼, 14¾:14 and imperforate. The lozenges in the watermark are little smaller and sharper than the originals.
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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

12 Feb 2014
03:12:56pm

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re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

I am interested, and truly appreciate both the descriptions and the illustrations; in combination, it makes identification possible.

with the 10pf Germania, which was the workhorse of the period and consequently in massive quantities in my collection, was the forgery widespread? and was it a forgery to defraud postal authorities or collectors?

More, Moore, moor, Moor


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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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Revstampman

12 Feb 2014
03:20:59pm
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

"was the forgery widespread?"


Thousands were printed.

"was it a forgery to defraud postal authorities or collectors?"



To defraud the postal authorities. It was used to send propaganda to Germans through their own postal system.
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Revstampman

12 Feb 2014
03:29:11pm
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

As pointed out by another member title should have read WW1. Quick typing, slow brain. I will now try to remove foot form mouth!

If anyone knows how to edit a title please let me know!

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smaier
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Sally

12 Feb 2014
05:28:54pm
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

Revstampman,

This is very interesting and I like the way you provide a picture and an explanation. Thanks for your efforts.

Sally

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CapeStampMan
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Mike

12 Feb 2014
06:29:57pm
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

This is a great subject and worth further investigation, but I'm not really sure that I may find out that a lot of my German stamps could be forgeries. Especially after spending hard earned money for them. Golly-gee-ned-howdy, I think our friend, the Brits, could have at least posted a warning on these great stamps, "NOT FOR COLLECTORS, FOR USE ONLY AS ACTUALLY POSTAGE", or maybe something similar to that. LOL I wonder exactly what effect this type of activity actually had on the German government and their "budgets". Now if that was the good ol' USA, we would just print more money to cover any of those losses, at least under our current administration, in MHO.

Mike

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"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
Revstampman

12 Feb 2014
09:23:50pm
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

" I wonder exactly what effect this type of activity actually had on the German government and their "budgets". "


It was about getting the propaganda into the hands of the German people, not costing the post office money.

"Now if that was the good ol' USA, we would just print more money to cover any of those losses"


You don't want to get me started the Federal Researve Bank!


Tomorrow the 15pf
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CapeStampMan
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Mike

12 Feb 2014
10:48:54pm
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

No, please don't get into that. Every time I even think of that mess I get so mad that I could just squash a Grape----------with my bare hands.

Mike

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"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
Jeredutt3

13 Feb 2014
01:49:21am
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

Yes yes yes ! I luv forgery anything. Keep it coming!

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Revstampman

13 Feb 2014
02:55:27pm
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

Ok, now for the 15pf.

Left, Orig. Right, Forgery
Image Not Found

As with the 10pf. the same nose features

Top Original, Bottom Forgery
Image Not Found


Note the shape of the "D", "T", "H", and "E"
The "H" in Reich also has the short crossbar

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youpiao
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17 Mar 2016
05:50:59am
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

The purpose (or rather, the actual usage) of these stamps has never been determined definitively. It is doubtful that these were used for any alleged "millions of pieces" of propaganda mailings, as there would surely be many many used copies available, when, in fact, no authenticated used examples have surfaced.

Another possibility is that they were used by British agents inside Germany to post reports abroad, the letters then, having fulfilled their function, being burned. This is also mere speculation, as here too, there are no copies extant which may have "slipped through the cracks." 6 letters with these stamps are alleged to exist, all mailed after the war, all mailed to the same Belgian diplomat, Jules Renkin.

The last possibility is that they were produced for one or both of the above purposes, but, for whatever reason, were never actually put into service.

Image Not Found




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Noernberg
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17 Mar 2016
06:04:39am
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

Amazing. Great thread! I truly appreciate it!

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www.noernbergstamps.com
        

 

Author/Postings
Revstampman

12 Feb 2014
02:51:58pm

Here are a few stamps that most don’t know exist. The British Wartime Forgeries of the Germania Issue of WW1. If there is an interest I will post other wartime forgeries and how to identify them.

First the 10pf.
Left original, right Forgery

Image Not Found Image Not Found

First lets look at the nose.
Left original, right Forgery
Image Not Found

The original has a distinct line creating the nostril. The forgery is more of a blob.

Now the "H" in Deutsches
Image Not Found

The original has a distinct well formed crossbar in the "H". The forgery is too short.

The originals are perforated 14:14½ with the lozenges watermank.
The Forgeries are perforated 15:14¼, 14¾:14 and imperforate. The lozenges in the watermark are little smaller and sharper than the originals.

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
12 Feb 2014
03:12:56pm

Auctions

re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

I am interested, and truly appreciate both the descriptions and the illustrations; in combination, it makes identification possible.

with the 10pf Germania, which was the workhorse of the period and consequently in massive quantities in my collection, was the forgery widespread? and was it a forgery to defraud postal authorities or collectors?

More, Moore, moor, Moor


Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Revstampman

12 Feb 2014
03:20:59pm

re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

"was the forgery widespread?"


Thousands were printed.

"was it a forgery to defraud postal authorities or collectors?"



To defraud the postal authorities. It was used to send propaganda to Germans through their own postal system.
Like
Login to Like
this post
Revstampman

12 Feb 2014
03:29:11pm

re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

As pointed out by another member title should have read WW1. Quick typing, slow brain. I will now try to remove foot form mouth!

If anyone knows how to edit a title please let me know!

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
smaier

Sally
12 Feb 2014
05:28:54pm

re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

Revstampman,

This is very interesting and I like the way you provide a picture and an explanation. Thanks for your efforts.

Sally

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
CapeStampMan

Mike
12 Feb 2014
06:29:57pm

re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

This is a great subject and worth further investigation, but I'm not really sure that I may find out that a lot of my German stamps could be forgeries. Especially after spending hard earned money for them. Golly-gee-ned-howdy, I think our friend, the Brits, could have at least posted a warning on these great stamps, "NOT FOR COLLECTORS, FOR USE ONLY AS ACTUALLY POSTAGE", or maybe something similar to that. LOL I wonder exactly what effect this type of activity actually had on the German government and their "budgets". Now if that was the good ol' USA, we would just print more money to cover any of those losses, at least under our current administration, in MHO.

Mike

Like
Login to Like
this post

"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
Revstampman

12 Feb 2014
09:23:50pm

re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

" I wonder exactly what effect this type of activity actually had on the German government and their "budgets". "


It was about getting the propaganda into the hands of the German people, not costing the post office money.

"Now if that was the good ol' USA, we would just print more money to cover any of those losses"


You don't want to get me started the Federal Researve Bank!


Tomorrow the 15pf
Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
CapeStampMan

Mike
12 Feb 2014
10:48:54pm

re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

No, please don't get into that. Every time I even think of that mess I get so mad that I could just squash a Grape----------with my bare hands.

Mike

Like
Login to Like
this post

"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
Jeredutt3

13 Feb 2014
01:49:21am

re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

Yes yes yes ! I luv forgery anything. Keep it coming!

Like
Login to Like
this post
Revstampman

13 Feb 2014
02:55:27pm

re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

Ok, now for the 15pf.

Left, Orig. Right, Forgery
Image Not Found

As with the 10pf. the same nose features

Top Original, Bottom Forgery
Image Not Found


Note the shape of the "D", "T", "H", and "E"
The "H" in Reich also has the short crossbar

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
youpiao

17 Mar 2016
05:50:59am

re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

The purpose (or rather, the actual usage) of these stamps has never been determined definitively. It is doubtful that these were used for any alleged "millions of pieces" of propaganda mailings, as there would surely be many many used copies available, when, in fact, no authenticated used examples have surfaced.

Another possibility is that they were used by British agents inside Germany to post reports abroad, the letters then, having fulfilled their function, being burned. This is also mere speculation, as here too, there are no copies extant which may have "slipped through the cracks." 6 letters with these stamps are alleged to exist, all mailed after the war, all mailed to the same Belgian diplomat, Jules Renkin.

The last possibility is that they were produced for one or both of the above purposes, but, for whatever reason, were never actually put into service.

Image Not Found




Like
Login to Like
this post

"Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-PTANG. Zoom-Boing. Z'nourrwringmm"
Members Picture
Noernberg

17 Mar 2016
06:04:39am

re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries

Amazing. Great thread! I truly appreciate it!

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.noernbergstamps. ...
        

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