Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
First the 10pf.
Left original, right Forgery
First lets look at the nose.
Left original, right Forgery
The original has a distinct line creating the nostril. The forgery is more of a blob.
Now the "H" in Deutsches
The original has a distinct well formed crossbar in the "H". The forgery is too short.
The originals are perforated 14:14½ with the lozenges watermank.
The Forgeries are perforated 15:14¼, 14¾:14 and imperforate. The lozenges in the watermark are little smaller and sharper than the originals.
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I am interested, and truly appreciate both the descriptions and the illustrations; in combination, it makes identification possible.
with the 10pf Germania, which was the workhorse of the period and consequently in massive quantities in my collection, was the forgery widespread? and was it a forgery to defraud postal authorities or collectors?
More, Moore, moor, Moor
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"was the forgery widespread?"
Thousands were printed.
"was it a forgery to defraud postal authorities or collectors?"
To defraud the postal authorities. It was used to send propaganda to Germans through their own postal system.
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As pointed out by another member title should have read WW1. Quick typing, slow brain. I will now try to remove foot form mouth!
If anyone knows how to edit a title please let me know!
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Revstampman,
This is very interesting and I like the way you provide a picture and an explanation. Thanks for your efforts.
Sally
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This is a great subject and worth further investigation, but I'm not really sure that I may find out that a lot of my German stamps could be forgeries. Especially after spending hard earned money for them. Golly-gee-ned-howdy, I think our friend, the Brits, could have at least posted a warning on these great stamps, "NOT FOR COLLECTORS, FOR USE ONLY AS ACTUALLY POSTAGE", or maybe something similar to that. LOL I wonder exactly what effect this type of activity actually had on the German government and their "budgets". Now if that was the good ol' USA, we would just print more money to cover any of those losses, at least under our current administration, in MHO.
Mike
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" I wonder exactly what effect this type of activity actually had on the German government and their "budgets". "
It was about getting the propaganda into the hands of the German people, not costing the post office money.
"Now if that was the good ol' USA, we would just print more money to cover any of those losses"
You don't want to get me started the Federal Researve Bank!
Tomorrow the 15pf
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No, please don't get into that. Every time I even think of that mess I get so mad that I could just squash a Grape----------with my bare hands.
Mike
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Yes yes yes ! I luv forgery anything. Keep it coming!
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Ok, now for the 15pf.
Left, Orig. Right, Forgery
As with the 10pf. the same nose features
Top Original, Bottom Forgery
Note the shape of the "D", "T", "H", and "E"
The "H" in Reich also has the short crossbar
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The purpose (or rather, the actual usage) of these stamps has never been determined definitively. It is doubtful that these were used for any alleged "millions of pieces" of propaganda mailings, as there would surely be many many used copies available, when, in fact, no authenticated used examples have surfaced.
Another possibility is that they were used by British agents inside Germany to post reports abroad, the letters then, having fulfilled their function, being burned. This is also mere speculation, as here too, there are no copies extant which may have "slipped through the cracks." 6 letters with these stamps are alleged to exist, all mailed after the war, all mailed to the same Belgian diplomat, Jules Renkin.
The last possibility is that they were produced for one or both of the above purposes, but, for whatever reason, were never actually put into service.
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Amazing. Great thread! I truly appreciate it!
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02:51:58pm
Here are a few stamps that most don’t know exist. The British Wartime Forgeries of the Germania Issue of WW1. If there is an interest I will post other wartime forgeries and how to identify them.
First the 10pf.
Left original, right Forgery
First lets look at the nose.
Left original, right Forgery
The original has a distinct line creating the nostril. The forgery is more of a blob.
Now the "H" in Deutsches
The original has a distinct well formed crossbar in the "H". The forgery is too short.
The originals are perforated 14:14½ with the lozenges watermank.
The Forgeries are perforated 15:14¼, 14¾:14 and imperforate. The lozenges in the watermark are little smaller and sharper than the originals.
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re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries
I am interested, and truly appreciate both the descriptions and the illustrations; in combination, it makes identification possible.
with the 10pf Germania, which was the workhorse of the period and consequently in massive quantities in my collection, was the forgery widespread? and was it a forgery to defraud postal authorities or collectors?
More, Moore, moor, Moor
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03:20:59pm
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries
"was the forgery widespread?"
Thousands were printed.
"was it a forgery to defraud postal authorities or collectors?"
To defraud the postal authorities. It was used to send propaganda to Germans through their own postal system.
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03:29:11pm
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries
As pointed out by another member title should have read WW1. Quick typing, slow brain. I will now try to remove foot form mouth!
If anyone knows how to edit a title please let me know!
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries
Revstampman,
This is very interesting and I like the way you provide a picture and an explanation. Thanks for your efforts.
Sally
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries
This is a great subject and worth further investigation, but I'm not really sure that I may find out that a lot of my German stamps could be forgeries. Especially after spending hard earned money for them. Golly-gee-ned-howdy, I think our friend, the Brits, could have at least posted a warning on these great stamps, "NOT FOR COLLECTORS, FOR USE ONLY AS ACTUALLY POSTAGE", or maybe something similar to that. LOL I wonder exactly what effect this type of activity actually had on the German government and their "budgets". Now if that was the good ol' USA, we would just print more money to cover any of those losses, at least under our current administration, in MHO.
Mike
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this post
09:23:50pm
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries
" I wonder exactly what effect this type of activity actually had on the German government and their "budgets". "
It was about getting the propaganda into the hands of the German people, not costing the post office money.
"Now if that was the good ol' USA, we would just print more money to cover any of those losses"
You don't want to get me started the Federal Researve Bank!
Tomorrow the 15pf
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries
No, please don't get into that. Every time I even think of that mess I get so mad that I could just squash a Grape----------with my bare hands.
Mike
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this post
01:49:21am
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries
Yes yes yes ! I luv forgery anything. Keep it coming!
Login to Like
this post
02:55:27pm
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries
Ok, now for the 15pf.
Left, Orig. Right, Forgery
As with the 10pf. the same nose features
Top Original, Bottom Forgery
Note the shape of the "D", "T", "H", and "E"
The "H" in Reich also has the short crossbar
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries
The purpose (or rather, the actual usage) of these stamps has never been determined definitively. It is doubtful that these were used for any alleged "millions of pieces" of propaganda mailings, as there would surely be many many used copies available, when, in fact, no authenticated used examples have surfaced.
Another possibility is that they were used by British agents inside Germany to post reports abroad, the letters then, having fulfilled their function, being burned. This is also mere speculation, as here too, there are no copies extant which may have "slipped through the cracks." 6 letters with these stamps are alleged to exist, all mailed after the war, all mailed to the same Belgian diplomat, Jules Renkin.
The last possibility is that they were produced for one or both of the above purposes, but, for whatever reason, were never actually put into service.
Login to Like
this post
re: Identifying WW1 Germania 10pf. & 15pf. War Forgeries
Amazing. Great thread! I truly appreciate it!
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