Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
For example, some easy ones:
Mint Lightly Hinged
Mint Heavily Hinged
Mint Hinge Remnant
Mint Never Hinged w/Thin
What are the terms you use for Mint (gum has a reverse black print image picked up from the placement in a stamp album)?
Mint Never Hinged (something stuck on the gum side)?
What other terms come to mind for various conditions found on the gum side?
How do you define a gum skip?
Just curious,
Bruce
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07:49:56pm
** Mint (gum has a reverse black print image picked up from the placement in a stamp album)?
"Unused, Original Gum, stamp album offset on the gum"
** Mint Never Hinged (something stuck on the gum side)?
If there is something stuck on the gum, it isn't "NH", so
"Mint, {small} {paper} adhesion on the the gum". (Terms in { } are optional).
** How do you define a gum skip?
Small spot or line lacking gum due to the gum application process. Would usually describe as a "natural gum skip". Some issues are particularly prone to them, like mid-1930s Canada. Will usually sell for something between a MLH and a MNH example.
Roy
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"Mint Never Hinged w/Thin"
A better way to state this is(copying Roy's grammar):
** Mint, {sm}{med}{lge}{perf}thin. If it has a thin, it was hinged or had some form of adhesion worse than a hinge. A perf thin is where a thin was made behind one or more perf teeth as damage that ocurred during separation of the stamps from the sheet.
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For me, "mint" means just that - post office fresh, never hinged and no problems or defects. If it is hinged or has any problem, then it is "unused".
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"For me, "mint" means just that - post office fresh, never hinged and no problems or defects. If it is hinged or has any problem, then it is "unused"."
I'm the opposite. "Mint" means unused, otherwise MH and MNG don't make sense. I prefer descriptive terms that are as objective as possible, like a "shallow thin 5 mm x 2 mm on gum side". Terms like VVVVVLH drive me nuts.
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"Mint No Gum" - would apply if that is how the stamp was issued.
If the stamp has a defect, such as the gum was soaked off, then I would consider it to be "unused no gum".
Terminology in this hobby is not consistent. I think the APS could do a big favor and issue a glossary of terminology.
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""Mint No Gum" - would apply if that is how the stamp was issued."
I respectfully disagree. That would be MNGAI, not just MNG. MNGAI would apply to some of the US Farley printings, for example, but MNG is specifically listed in the US Scott Specialized for 241-245 (High $ Columbians); 261-263 and 276-278 (High $ First Bureau); and 292-293 (High $ Trans-Mississippi), to name a few. (I know it doesn't say MNG, but lists "No gum" and "Never hinged" as varieties under the "unused" column which defaults to "hinged").
It's highly likely some used stamps with a cleaned cancel are sold as MNG and that is probably why the prices for Used are about the same as MNG in the examples given above. Nevertheless, MNH, MH, MHR, and MNG are ALL unused stamps, meaning they were not postally used. A used stamp with a cleaned cancel is a used stamp even if it's sold as MNG, but an unused stamp without gum is MINT NO GUM.
You want to distinguish between "mint" and "unused", and I can respect that, but with acronymns like MH, MHR, and MNG firmly entrenched in the marketplace, you may be tilting at windmills.
Lars
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04:39:41am
The first time I saw a stamp described as "MNGAI" it automatically registered as "Mountain Goat Ate it." and despite eventually figuring out the meaning intended, I still visualize a classic cartoon of the Katzenjamma Kids trying to retrieve an album page from a Mountain Goat.
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I think the term MUH (Mint Unhinged?) is used in Australia or Great Britain instead of MNH sometimes.
As far as just "Mint", I have to assume any stamp dealer selling stamps as Mint and not explicitly MNH is selling hinged stamps, as I have gotten burned by that before.
Josh
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"I think the term MUH (Mint Unhinged?) is used in Australia or Great Britain instead of MNH sometimes."
They also use the term "mounted" to refer to hinged but I've seen both.
I agree with Michael's usage, where a mint stamp is one without any hinging history, gum disturbance, or cancels of any type. I would use "unused" for any gummed stamp that has a cancel (see also the CTO post elsewhere), disturbance to the original gum, or any hinging past or present.
I once bought a set of "mint never hinged" stamps that had no cancels or hinging history, but each had major tropical discoloration and disturbance to the gum. To me, those are no longer mint stamps.
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The traditional UK term for unused stamps with full gum is "Ummounted Mint" (UMM or U/M etc.) and for stamps that have been hinged "Mounted Mint" (MM or M/M etc.) but there are plenty of variations.
Stanley Gibbons describes its standard catalogue price columns simply as "Unused" and "Used".
Until the days of the Internet I don't recall seeing a stamp described as "unhinged" or "MH", "MNH" etc. except when reading about US terminology.
Similarly, I had never seen references to "MUH" or "Mint Unhinged" until I joined an Australia-based forum.
It wouldn't surprise me if the US terms become used more widely.
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This is a go-nowhere discussion straight out of,
"Through the Looking Glass",
where words mean whatever the author wants them to mean.
For example, "cdj1122" occasionally uses the term
•legitimate philately• Dare anyone ask him what that means?
I have learned how to wade through the deepest parts of the Mad Hatter
tea-party problem of stamp description/stamp terminology without
getting my ankles wet by buying from reputable sellers who
offer satisfaction or money refunded.
Internet image display seems to improve every time I log in
and written stamp descriptions are shrinking this discussion
to the point where, at least for me, it is out of sight.
One charming aspect of Stamporama that I rather like is
our proclivity for counting angels dancing on pinheads.
John Derry
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John, you are right about having to learn international philately languages. Just wait until the Russians and Chinese come online with their terms. How do you say mint, never hinged, unmounted, etc., and their language's variations of those terms in Mandarin???
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10:30:40pm
One of my favourites (which I have seen many times in the Stamporama auction is:
"used, never hinged"
To the authors of such descriptions, I can only say "Soaking does a good job of removing hinge marks" and "never" means "not ever", so how do you know?
Roy
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I kind of like the term "used, never hinged" - to me, that is a guarantee the stamp does not have an unpeelable hinge stuck to it, or 6 hinge remnants stuck to it like on some old stamps, that give them a bulging appearance even from the front. Sure you can soak them to remove, but that can be time consuming.
Josh
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08:39:09am
"I kind of like the term "used, never hinged" - to me, that is a guarantee the stamp does not have an unpeelable hinge stuck to it, or 6 hinge remnants stuck to it like on some old stamps, that give them a bulging appearance even from the front. Sure you can soak them to remove, but that can be time consuming."
Well then it shouldn't be never hinged, it should be "used, no hinge remnants".
Roy
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09:12:58am
I agree with Roy. "Used Never Hinged" certainly inspires little confidence in a buyer of the seller's knowledge or competency with respect to describing stamps. Makes you wonder what else is inaccurately described.
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"Used never hinged" would describe someone I knew in college, but I wouldn't use it for my stamps.
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I agree with Peter...I often describe myself as "well-used, definitely unhinged."
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06:58:30pm
Knowing the seller counts.
" ... "Used Never Hinged" certainly inspires little confidence in a buyer of the seller's knowledge or competency with respect to describing stamps. ...."
While I'd agree that usually the seller is making a statement that he, or she, cannot possibly be certain, of or prove, there is an exception. Or perhaps several sellers in the exception category. There are at least two sellers I buy from who often use the "Used, never hinged" description. I have come to realize that what is meant by them, is that this seller has recently soaked that particular stamp off paper personally and then, at some point placed it in the auction. Thus this seller CAN state categorically that it was never hinged or mounted since it became used and was soaked or otherwise gently detached from the torn off corner of an envelope. Since I am usually not concerned about whether the stamp was at some time hinged or not, the statement is just a courtesy remark.
There is still the possibility that at one time it was mounted in an album of mint stamps and then removed to use on mail. That is why I stuck the "never hinged or mounted since it became used"
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07:27:54pm
...."For example, "cdj1122" occasionally uses the term
•legitimate philately• Dare anyone ask him what that means?" ....
Well, so far no one has presented a dare however I did post the following cranky comment in, or on, a nearby thread about identifying CTO cancels.
" ....What is the essence of philately ?
In my mind it is the study in some way of the various postal systems, rates and routes and the labels that are used to indicate payment of the fee charged for the service.
Collecting "Jam Jar Labels" may be interesting just as collecting banana label can be fascinating, but neither is really a part of philately...."
I would think that my meaning is clear on this point.
Contrived souvenirs made to remove money for unsuspecting collectors is anathema to me.
And the massive production of cancelled labels that will likely never perform that essential purpose of paying the fee for a legitimate postal service are equally unloved.
Even privately copied sheets of postal images, such as the, at one time in the 1990s, almost ubiquitous Nigerian Stone Bridge issue, rates better than the Jam Jar Labels, in my cantankerous world. That is for the simple reason that, while illegal, they were intended to, and usually did, indicate payment of the postal fees. I have a mini-collection ( Two pages) of those particular fabrications and enjoy the idea that so many passed through the mails eluding the ever so sharp eyes of the postal officials in probably two different countries..
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Well, "cdj1122", those are your words and you have explained
very well what they mean.
Now, more tea, and would that be marmalade with your biscuit?
John Derry
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What what? No scones?
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Always interesting to read the comments to questions. I enjoyed the difference in terminology among the English and Australians.
Anyone have any more terms to share about gum problems that weren't covered?
I have found that about 40% of my stamp purchases for mint never hinged stamps arrive with
disturbances to the gum where former mint never hinged stamps stuck to something which lifted away the gum, have tiny thins, have faint hinge traces... About the same percentage of mint hinged have gum missing in other areas other than the hinge mark area, stamp album design traces, thins, etc.
None of the above is mentioned by the seller.
Is that percentage about the norm for online purchases by others?
I feel a little foolish if I bring up these discrepancies when the stamps are purchased for a small amount of money. I usually do bring up the problems though.
Do you find yourself ignoring gum problems not mentioned by the seller once you've received the stamps?
I should mention that the 40% defect rate is not reflective of purchases on here. The rate is about 10% or less.
Thanks to all for joining in,
Bruce
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It does bother me when I buy a stamp that is listed as mint, never hinged, and I see a big fingerprint on the gum, the stamp is damaged, etc. Fortunately, I do not get those that often, or else I check the stamp out in an approval selection or sales book. I quickly drop dealers who consistently do not properly state the correct condition.
Sometimes I do get a stamp, similarly listed, that has a very, very light hinge mark. I don't blame the seller on that one as it is extremely hard to detect some of those.
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As a relative novice this thread is interesting but is making me a little
MNC-DUH
(mind numbing confused - definately unhinged)
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As a seller I try to be sure to list the stamps correctly, but being human I do make plenty of mistakes. That is why IMHO, a buyer that receives a stamp "NOT AS LISTED" should notify the seller and explain the issue with the stamp. If the fault is egregious enough request a refund, replacement if possible, or at least credit towards the next invoice. I believe every error in listing should at least be presented to the seller, even if just to keep them informed of the incorrect listing of the stamp received.
Mike
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Spoken like a true gentleman, Mike.
Bruce
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Question: thinking of bidding on a higher value columbian listed as "mint no gum" someone posted earlier that that usually means as it was issued but that wouldn't apply here. Under what conditions would such a stamp end up with no gum? Hinged or disturbed gum I get but "no gum"? Thoughts?
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The circumstances could be stamps that got stuck to album pages due to humidity or wet in a flood. Maybe it was soaked off an envelope where it didn't get cancelled or someone soaked it because the gum was crystallized or heavily hinged. I've seen where the person just licked the stamp to put it in their album, and people who used stamp selvage as hinges. Ya never know.
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Remember that a mint stamp without gum, unless originally issued without gum, is generally valued as a used stamp. As far as I'm concerned though, that's an unrealistic value, because most collectors (in my experience, including myself) wouldn't buy it unless it was useful as a space filler and priced very reasonably.
Bob
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Good info Tom and Bob, Thanks.
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In the early years of stamp collecting, it was a common practice to soak the gum off of mint stamps. Scott does value many 19th Century.
For the Columbian issue, Scott doesn't value unused no gum until the 50 cent. For those, the no gum value is around the used value, or less than the used value.
Other than that, as Bob stated, unused, no gum equals used value. On modern US stamps, unused no gum means get a glue stick and use for postage.
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Thanks Michael,
Wow... now I remember why I started collecting used in the first place. Who needs the headache of worrying about the gum?
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I collect mostly used for the same reason. NO questions of terminology and no worries about re-gumming. Also, I like the look of a nice cancel, and stamps that have "done their duty".
I do collect some mint (only Never Hinged - as issued by the Post Office). But mostly post 1930's where re-gumming is less of a concern.
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I was once asked if I was interested in buying a Canadian stamp collection which had been inherited from the seller's father. I went to the owner's home to look at it. It would have been a decent collection — a bit sparse, all mint hinged, with some higher values from the 1930s through the 1950s, but there was just one problem:
When I tried to lift a stamp away from the album page to look at the back, I couldn't do it. The top centre of every stamp was firmly affixed to the hinge and to the page itself — it looked like the father had asked his especially drooly and sloppy St. Bernard to help him lick the hinges after they had first been applied to the stamp. Or the St. Bernard didn't trust the hinges, and decided to "moisten" a bit of the gum as well. St. Bernards aren't stupid, but few of them are experienced stamp collectors. In any event, the only way to remove those stamps from the album pages would have been to soak them off.
I didn't buy the collection. The owner was not happy when I told him that the collection was a nice keepsake but essentially without commercial value.
Bob
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This is a bit old and probably out of date, but SOR does have its own take on descriptive terms for stamps.
http://stamporama.com/faq/faq.php?faq=descriptive-terms
Andrew
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There are plenty of examples where the used stamp is worth more than its unused counterpart, and thus you will find unused stamps that had the gum removed and a fake cancel applied to the stamp. Nothing is beyond what forgers will do to take money away from unwary stamp collectors.
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07:32:14pm
I would like to read how members describe, using philatelic terms, the gum side of problematical mint stamps.
For example, some easy ones:
Mint Lightly Hinged
Mint Heavily Hinged
Mint Hinge Remnant
Mint Never Hinged w/Thin
What are the terms you use for Mint (gum has a reverse black print image picked up from the placement in a stamp album)?
Mint Never Hinged (something stuck on the gum side)?
What other terms come to mind for various conditions found on the gum side?
How do you define a gum skip?
Just curious,
Bruce
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04 Apr 2014
07:49:56pm
re: Problems On The Gum Side
** Mint (gum has a reverse black print image picked up from the placement in a stamp album)?
"Unused, Original Gum, stamp album offset on the gum"
** Mint Never Hinged (something stuck on the gum side)?
If there is something stuck on the gum, it isn't "NH", so
"Mint, {small} {paper} adhesion on the the gum". (Terms in { } are optional).
** How do you define a gum skip?
Small spot or line lacking gum due to the gum application process. Would usually describe as a "natural gum skip". Some issues are particularly prone to them, like mid-1930s Canada. Will usually sell for something between a MLH and a MNH example.
Roy
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
"Mint Never Hinged w/Thin"
A better way to state this is(copying Roy's grammar):
** Mint, {sm}{med}{lge}{perf}thin. If it has a thin, it was hinged or had some form of adhesion worse than a hinge. A perf thin is where a thin was made behind one or more perf teeth as damage that ocurred during separation of the stamps from the sheet.
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
For me, "mint" means just that - post office fresh, never hinged and no problems or defects. If it is hinged or has any problem, then it is "unused".
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
"For me, "mint" means just that - post office fresh, never hinged and no problems or defects. If it is hinged or has any problem, then it is "unused"."
I'm the opposite. "Mint" means unused, otherwise MH and MNG don't make sense. I prefer descriptive terms that are as objective as possible, like a "shallow thin 5 mm x 2 mm on gum side". Terms like VVVVVLH drive me nuts.
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
"Mint No Gum" - would apply if that is how the stamp was issued.
If the stamp has a defect, such as the gum was soaked off, then I would consider it to be "unused no gum".
Terminology in this hobby is not consistent. I think the APS could do a big favor and issue a glossary of terminology.
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
""Mint No Gum" - would apply if that is how the stamp was issued."
I respectfully disagree. That would be MNGAI, not just MNG. MNGAI would apply to some of the US Farley printings, for example, but MNG is specifically listed in the US Scott Specialized for 241-245 (High $ Columbians); 261-263 and 276-278 (High $ First Bureau); and 292-293 (High $ Trans-Mississippi), to name a few. (I know it doesn't say MNG, but lists "No gum" and "Never hinged" as varieties under the "unused" column which defaults to "hinged").
It's highly likely some used stamps with a cleaned cancel are sold as MNG and that is probably why the prices for Used are about the same as MNG in the examples given above. Nevertheless, MNH, MH, MHR, and MNG are ALL unused stamps, meaning they were not postally used. A used stamp with a cleaned cancel is a used stamp even if it's sold as MNG, but an unused stamp without gum is MINT NO GUM.
You want to distinguish between "mint" and "unused", and I can respect that, but with acronymns like MH, MHR, and MNG firmly entrenched in the marketplace, you may be tilting at windmills.
Lars
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
05 Apr 2014
04:39:41am
re: Problems On The Gum Side
The first time I saw a stamp described as "MNGAI" it automatically registered as "Mountain Goat Ate it." and despite eventually figuring out the meaning intended, I still visualize a classic cartoon of the Katzenjamma Kids trying to retrieve an album page from a Mountain Goat.
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
I think the term MUH (Mint Unhinged?) is used in Australia or Great Britain instead of MNH sometimes.
As far as just "Mint", I have to assume any stamp dealer selling stamps as Mint and not explicitly MNH is selling hinged stamps, as I have gotten burned by that before.
Josh
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10:00:12am
re: Problems On The Gum Side
"I think the term MUH (Mint Unhinged?) is used in Australia or Great Britain instead of MNH sometimes."
They also use the term "mounted" to refer to hinged but I've seen both.
I agree with Michael's usage, where a mint stamp is one without any hinging history, gum disturbance, or cancels of any type. I would use "unused" for any gummed stamp that has a cancel (see also the CTO post elsewhere), disturbance to the original gum, or any hinging past or present.
I once bought a set of "mint never hinged" stamps that had no cancels or hinging history, but each had major tropical discoloration and disturbance to the gum. To me, those are no longer mint stamps.
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
The traditional UK term for unused stamps with full gum is "Ummounted Mint" (UMM or U/M etc.) and for stamps that have been hinged "Mounted Mint" (MM or M/M etc.) but there are plenty of variations.
Stanley Gibbons describes its standard catalogue price columns simply as "Unused" and "Used".
Until the days of the Internet I don't recall seeing a stamp described as "unhinged" or "MH", "MNH" etc. except when reading about US terminology.
Similarly, I had never seen references to "MUH" or "Mint Unhinged" until I joined an Australia-based forum.
It wouldn't surprise me if the US terms become used more widely.
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
05 Apr 2014
06:50:38pm
re: Problems On The Gum Side
This is a go-nowhere discussion straight out of,
"Through the Looking Glass",
where words mean whatever the author wants them to mean.
For example, "cdj1122" occasionally uses the term
•legitimate philately• Dare anyone ask him what that means?
I have learned how to wade through the deepest parts of the Mad Hatter
tea-party problem of stamp description/stamp terminology without
getting my ankles wet by buying from reputable sellers who
offer satisfaction or money refunded.
Internet image display seems to improve every time I log in
and written stamp descriptions are shrinking this discussion
to the point where, at least for me, it is out of sight.
One charming aspect of Stamporama that I rather like is
our proclivity for counting angels dancing on pinheads.
John Derry
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
John, you are right about having to learn international philately languages. Just wait until the Russians and Chinese come online with their terms. How do you say mint, never hinged, unmounted, etc., and their language's variations of those terms in Mandarin???
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05 Apr 2014
10:30:40pm
re: Problems On The Gum Side
One of my favourites (which I have seen many times in the Stamporama auction is:
"used, never hinged"
To the authors of such descriptions, I can only say "Soaking does a good job of removing hinge marks" and "never" means "not ever", so how do you know?
Roy
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
I kind of like the term "used, never hinged" - to me, that is a guarantee the stamp does not have an unpeelable hinge stuck to it, or 6 hinge remnants stuck to it like on some old stamps, that give them a bulging appearance even from the front. Sure you can soak them to remove, but that can be time consuming.
Josh
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06 Apr 2014
08:39:09am
re: Problems On The Gum Side
"I kind of like the term "used, never hinged" - to me, that is a guarantee the stamp does not have an unpeelable hinge stuck to it, or 6 hinge remnants stuck to it like on some old stamps, that give them a bulging appearance even from the front. Sure you can soak them to remove, but that can be time consuming."
Well then it shouldn't be never hinged, it should be "used, no hinge remnants".
Roy
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
06 Apr 2014
09:12:58am
re: Problems On The Gum Side
I agree with Roy. "Used Never Hinged" certainly inspires little confidence in a buyer of the seller's knowledge or competency with respect to describing stamps. Makes you wonder what else is inaccurately described.
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12:53:16pm
re: Problems On The Gum Side
"Used never hinged" would describe someone I knew in college, but I wouldn't use it for my stamps.
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
I agree with Peter...I often describe myself as "well-used, definitely unhinged."
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
06 Apr 2014
06:58:30pm
re: Problems On The Gum Side
Knowing the seller counts.
" ... "Used Never Hinged" certainly inspires little confidence in a buyer of the seller's knowledge or competency with respect to describing stamps. ...."
While I'd agree that usually the seller is making a statement that he, or she, cannot possibly be certain, of or prove, there is an exception. Or perhaps several sellers in the exception category. There are at least two sellers I buy from who often use the "Used, never hinged" description. I have come to realize that what is meant by them, is that this seller has recently soaked that particular stamp off paper personally and then, at some point placed it in the auction. Thus this seller CAN state categorically that it was never hinged or mounted since it became used and was soaked or otherwise gently detached from the torn off corner of an envelope. Since I am usually not concerned about whether the stamp was at some time hinged or not, the statement is just a courtesy remark.
There is still the possibility that at one time it was mounted in an album of mint stamps and then removed to use on mail. That is why I stuck the "never hinged or mounted since it became used"
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
06 Apr 2014
07:27:54pm
re: Problems On The Gum Side
...."For example, "cdj1122" occasionally uses the term
•legitimate philately• Dare anyone ask him what that means?" ....
Well, so far no one has presented a dare however I did post the following cranky comment in, or on, a nearby thread about identifying CTO cancels.
" ....What is the essence of philately ?
In my mind it is the study in some way of the various postal systems, rates and routes and the labels that are used to indicate payment of the fee charged for the service.
Collecting "Jam Jar Labels" may be interesting just as collecting banana label can be fascinating, but neither is really a part of philately...."
I would think that my meaning is clear on this point.
Contrived souvenirs made to remove money for unsuspecting collectors is anathema to me.
And the massive production of cancelled labels that will likely never perform that essential purpose of paying the fee for a legitimate postal service are equally unloved.
Even privately copied sheets of postal images, such as the, at one time in the 1990s, almost ubiquitous Nigerian Stone Bridge issue, rates better than the Jam Jar Labels, in my cantankerous world. That is for the simple reason that, while illegal, they were intended to, and usually did, indicate payment of the postal fees. I have a mini-collection ( Two pages) of those particular fabrications and enjoy the idea that so many passed through the mails eluding the ever so sharp eyes of the postal officials in probably two different countries..
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
06 Apr 2014
10:28:56pm
re: Problems On The Gum Side
Well, "cdj1122", those are your words and you have explained
very well what they mean.
Now, more tea, and would that be marmalade with your biscuit?
John Derry
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05:52:45pm
re: Problems On The Gum Side
Always interesting to read the comments to questions. I enjoyed the difference in terminology among the English and Australians.
Anyone have any more terms to share about gum problems that weren't covered?
I have found that about 40% of my stamp purchases for mint never hinged stamps arrive with
disturbances to the gum where former mint never hinged stamps stuck to something which lifted away the gum, have tiny thins, have faint hinge traces... About the same percentage of mint hinged have gum missing in other areas other than the hinge mark area, stamp album design traces, thins, etc.
None of the above is mentioned by the seller.
Is that percentage about the norm for online purchases by others?
I feel a little foolish if I bring up these discrepancies when the stamps are purchased for a small amount of money. I usually do bring up the problems though.
Do you find yourself ignoring gum problems not mentioned by the seller once you've received the stamps?
I should mention that the 40% defect rate is not reflective of purchases on here. The rate is about 10% or less.
Thanks to all for joining in,
Bruce
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
It does bother me when I buy a stamp that is listed as mint, never hinged, and I see a big fingerprint on the gum, the stamp is damaged, etc. Fortunately, I do not get those that often, or else I check the stamp out in an approval selection or sales book. I quickly drop dealers who consistently do not properly state the correct condition.
Sometimes I do get a stamp, similarly listed, that has a very, very light hinge mark. I don't blame the seller on that one as it is extremely hard to detect some of those.
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
As a relative novice this thread is interesting but is making me a little
MNC-DUH
(mind numbing confused - definately unhinged)
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
As a seller I try to be sure to list the stamps correctly, but being human I do make plenty of mistakes. That is why IMHO, a buyer that receives a stamp "NOT AS LISTED" should notify the seller and explain the issue with the stamp. If the fault is egregious enough request a refund, replacement if possible, or at least credit towards the next invoice. I believe every error in listing should at least be presented to the seller, even if just to keep them informed of the incorrect listing of the stamp received.
Mike
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02:22:29pm
re: Problems On The Gum Side
Spoken like a true gentleman, Mike.
Bruce
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
Question: thinking of bidding on a higher value columbian listed as "mint no gum" someone posted earlier that that usually means as it was issued but that wouldn't apply here. Under what conditions would such a stamp end up with no gum? Hinged or disturbed gum I get but "no gum"? Thoughts?
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Approvals
re: Problems On The Gum Side
The circumstances could be stamps that got stuck to album pages due to humidity or wet in a flood. Maybe it was soaked off an envelope where it didn't get cancelled or someone soaked it because the gum was crystallized or heavily hinged. I've seen where the person just licked the stamp to put it in their album, and people who used stamp selvage as hinges. Ya never know.
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
Remember that a mint stamp without gum, unless originally issued without gum, is generally valued as a used stamp. As far as I'm concerned though, that's an unrealistic value, because most collectors (in my experience, including myself) wouldn't buy it unless it was useful as a space filler and priced very reasonably.
Bob
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
Good info Tom and Bob, Thanks.
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
In the early years of stamp collecting, it was a common practice to soak the gum off of mint stamps. Scott does value many 19th Century.
For the Columbian issue, Scott doesn't value unused no gum until the 50 cent. For those, the no gum value is around the used value, or less than the used value.
Other than that, as Bob stated, unused, no gum equals used value. On modern US stamps, unused no gum means get a glue stick and use for postage.
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
Thanks Michael,
Wow... now I remember why I started collecting used in the first place. Who needs the headache of worrying about the gum?
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11:21:30am
re: Problems On The Gum Side
I collect mostly used for the same reason. NO questions of terminology and no worries about re-gumming. Also, I like the look of a nice cancel, and stamps that have "done their duty".
I do collect some mint (only Never Hinged - as issued by the Post Office). But mostly post 1930's where re-gumming is less of a concern.
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
I was once asked if I was interested in buying a Canadian stamp collection which had been inherited from the seller's father. I went to the owner's home to look at it. It would have been a decent collection — a bit sparse, all mint hinged, with some higher values from the 1930s through the 1950s, but there was just one problem:
When I tried to lift a stamp away from the album page to look at the back, I couldn't do it. The top centre of every stamp was firmly affixed to the hinge and to the page itself — it looked like the father had asked his especially drooly and sloppy St. Bernard to help him lick the hinges after they had first been applied to the stamp. Or the St. Bernard didn't trust the hinges, and decided to "moisten" a bit of the gum as well. St. Bernards aren't stupid, but few of them are experienced stamp collectors. In any event, the only way to remove those stamps from the album pages would have been to soak them off.
I didn't buy the collection. The owner was not happy when I told him that the collection was a nice keepsake but essentially without commercial value.
Bob
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
This is a bit old and probably out of date, but SOR does have its own take on descriptive terms for stamps.
http://stamporama.com/faq/faq.php?faq=descriptive-terms
Andrew
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re: Problems On The Gum Side
There are plenty of examples where the used stamp is worth more than its unused counterpart, and thus you will find unused stamps that had the gum removed and a fake cancel applied to the stamp. Nothing is beyond what forgers will do to take money away from unwary stamp collectors.
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