Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Very nice. I like seeing pics.
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Here are a few more fancy cancels I found while organizing my collections. The top stamp is an American flag, bottom row is a pair with a Saint Louis Sun Face, next a moon and cresent (Masonic) and another sun face.
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Thanks so much for sharing. I wonder how many of the American flag fancy cancel are sitting unnoticed in one of my Banknote piles? I think I would have quickly looked and only noticed the bars.
Bruce
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"The top stamp is an American flag"
But why is the flag horizontally flipped?
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05:30:20pm
"But why is the flag horizontally flipped?"
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I don't think there are any illegalities concerning the orientation of the U.S. flag when it is displayed. Etiquette, yes. Rules? Don't think so. I've noticed the "flipped horizontally" orientation on when the flag is shown as a patch on soldiers' left shoulder.
Same orientation is used on vehicles and wall displays with other flags.
Bob
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I assume the flag was carved correctly but when used as a cancel it became inverted. The reason the US military wear one flag that looks like it is in reverse is because we don't want our flag to look like it is in retreat.
Vince
PS Bob , I am a former Corpsman but never saw combat (1980-1984). Now I'm a soon to be retired Philadelphia Fireman/EMT.
Thank you for your service!
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I came across this great link. I own this book. Now I can carry it on my cellphone.
https://archive.org/stream/CancellationsAndKillersOfTheBanknoteEra18701894/CancellationsAndKillersOfTheBanknoteEra1870-1894150dpi#page/n1/mode/2up
Bob
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I have started a collection of fancy cancels on the large Banknote issue 3c green. Here is a page from my budding collection. I obtained a hardback copy of Cole's book and just recently downloaded the online version.
I picked the St. Louis shield up from Richard Drews a few years back. The others I have found in misc eBay auctions.
Regards,
Don
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Springfield, Mass and a few Boston negatives.
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Fantastic posts! I've been collecting fancy cancels, but haven't given much thought on how to organize or display them. Great ideas. Thanks.
Steve
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Mine are a hodge podge. I got inspiration from this thread to take a look at mine. Right now they are all in Vario sheets. Time to get to work!
Don
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Great post!
Please stop posting images of your great fancy cancels - I am constantly wiping of the drool from my keyboard
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I like SON (or SOTN) Fancy Cancels!
Lars
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Hi Everyone;
Does anyone know how many different US flags are still legal to fly, without peeking on the internet?
And does anyone know which is the only flag to have 15 red/white stripes and why, again without
looking it up?
just some flag trivia....
TuskenRaider
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Larsdog! Excellent stuff.
I hope that you saw a recent post of mine where I complemented you greatly on your modern US collection. Your presentation has influenced me to FOCUS...
Ok - back on topic - a few SON fancies on the 3 cent bank note for the group. (you've seen the Springfield pair on cover)
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Don,
I really LIKE those! I'm a sucker for a sock on the nose!
Thank you for your kind words.
Lars
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I have always been drawn to fancy cancels.
Here is an eBay anomaly I have experienced albeit in my micro world of experience with a limited numbers of buyers and sellers:
Stamps off cover with socked on the nose fancy cancels sell for more than those same stamps on cover with socked on nose cancels.
Whether this would extend past eBay, I can't say nor can I explain it other than perhaps preference.
Bruce
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"Stamps off cover with socked on the nose fancy cancels sell for more than those same stamps on cover with socked on nose cancels."
Bruce, I hadn't noticed that. But then I usually put the phrase "-cover" in the search string to omit covers! I do that because of the glut of FDCs that I am not interested in. I really hadn't been interested in covers at any point in my collecting experience, but since joining SOR and seeing all of the wonderful covers people have collected, I am slowly warming up to them!
Steve
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I started scanning more covers to my files. This is making it easier to organize them. Anyway here is a year date 1870 from Watkins, NY.
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Two more covers for tonight for your viewing pleasure.
The first is a shield from Worcester, MA
The second is a checker board from Sacramento, CA.
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Vinman,
Great material, please post more if you have any.
Donhearl,
"I have started a collection of fancy cancels on the large Banknote issue 3c green. Here is a page from my budding collection. I obtained a hardback copy of Cole's book and just recently downloaded the online version."
Where did you find the Cole books ? I'd love to have them.
Tom
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Fancy cancels on U.S. stamps is one of my favorite areas of collecting. I have a PDF file of CANCELLATIONS AND KILLERS OF THE BANKNOTE ERA 1870 - 1894 by James M. Cole. I would be glad to email a copy to anyone interested, if possible. It's 98MB so I 'm not sure if it would work.
I also have a hard copy of United States Cancellations 1845-1869 by Skinner and Enos.
If anyone has something that is really stumping them I could take a look. It's quite time consuming looking so I would ask to keep to a minimum of inquiries.
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Hi Mitchell,
I think it may have been back in the eBay message board days that you showed some of your Banknotes with cancels. I have a decent library covering cancels.
There is a fancy cancel from Pennsylvania but not sure of the town, maybe Pottsville or Pottstown that was carved to frame the busts on the Large Banknotes. I seen it come up at auction once and I was the under bidder. If See it again I will bid high, it's The Holy Grail of cancels. I have to look through mt literature for a picture of it.
By the way, I have been collecting cancels for about twenty years and am a member of The US Cancellation Club, actually I'm the president. It's a great club if you collect 19th century US cancels and postmarks. I handle the back issue so if anyone would like a complimentary copy just email off board.
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vinman,
Great NYFM's, when I get pictures I'll show some of mine.
Antonius,
I'd like an email copy of the Cole book, please.
Tom
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Mitchell,
I just checked out your page of US Fancy Cancels and you have a copy of the cancel I was referring to in my previous post. It is on your 7cent stamp. I am looking for a use on cover. I remember chatting with you about that stamp and cancel a few years ago on another chat board.
Vince
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Vince, Good to see you. When you noted that cancel in your post that 7 center was the one I thought you were talking about. I am glad to finally know where it originated, I cannot find it in the Cole book. It's a shame the stamp is damaged but have always rather hoped the cancel had some value. It's the coolest cancel that I have ever come across on a Banknote. You're are saying it is the "holy Grail" of banknote cancels which sounds good to me. Do you know what value it adds to a sound stamp and an estimate of what it would be on a damaged one such as mine? I've made a 600 dpi scan of the stamp seen below.
Thanks for the invite but I'm not really a joiner of clubs and my collecting interests are spread pretty thin in trying to keep track of the world.
Tom, Sure I would be happy to send you a copy. Send me your email address and I'll give it a try.
Does anyone know how I could upload it to my site and make it available for download.
Mitchell
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Mitchell,
It is my Holy Grail. There are some more valuable cancels out there but that is the one I am always hoping to find. I bid on a perfect strike on a sound stamp at least ten years ago and I remember being the under bidder at $700.00. If I come across another it will probably be my one purchase for the year. I learned a lesson with that,if I really want an item and don't think it will come up for sale anytime soon I will just bite the bullet and go for it. I do know a collector friend who has several copies and would like to make a trade with him.
Vince
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Tom et al, I've uploaded the CANCELLATIONS AND KILLERS OF THE BANKNOTE ERA 1870 - 1894 by James M. Cole. to my website.
When I click on it the file it comes up perfectly for me. If it does not for you and you cannot download from there, let me know and I will email the file to you. Have fun!
Here is the URL: http://mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/us_cancels1870.pdf.
Vince, Could you check on the name of the town where the cancel originated so I can make note of it. Does it have an alpha-numeric designation? Is the cancel known on all of the Large Banknote issues and denominations? If not what other years besides 1870-71 was the cancel known to be used.
What was the Issue year and denomination of the one that passed you by for $700? I'm trying to determine what the cancels value is. No doubt it would be worth more on a 90 center than a 3 center. It seems that it was only used for a short while, I would not doubt that it was used mostly in 1870-71 before wearing out.
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the japanese call these obliterators - "buttons" ... manufacturered in NYC, Bryan took 2 sets to japan for use in 1875 foreign mail dept. 1 for USPA, and 1 for IJPO FM dept. they worked side by side. forged steel indicia that over time cracked or broke. - yielding new cancel forms.
Canada post also used similar hammers ... fancy cancels are common during 19c.
Prussians served in union army and settled in NYC. as gunsmiths, they likely also produced cast iron hammers for postal use ...
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Mitchell,
I did a little checking and it is from Pottsville, PA. I found it being mentioned on Richard Frajola's in 2008. Not much about it but it is referred to as "Key Hole" cancel and being made specifically to use on the Large Banknotes. The stamp that was shown is a 24 cents Banknote. I responded to that post and said then it was my Holy Grail of fancy cancels.
Here is a link to the page it was mentioned on.http://www.philamercury.com/board.php?ys=0&ob=oldest&qs=patent%20cancel&sa=1&pg=5
Vince
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Vince, Thanks for the info
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Antonius,
For some reason I cannot send messages to anyone here, not even the moderators.
When I click on someone's email address I get a pop-up window that states---"Could not perform this operation because the default mail client is not properly installed"
I have never seen this message anywhere else.
I am able to respond to messages sent to me.
Tom
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Very nice. I like seeing pics.
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Here are a few more fancy cancels I found while organizing my collections. The top stamp is an American flag, bottom row is a pair with a Saint Louis Sun Face, next a moon and cresent (Masonic) and another sun face.
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04:30:52pm
re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Thanks so much for sharing. I wonder how many of the American flag fancy cancel are sitting unnoticed in one of my Banknote piles? I think I would have quickly looked and only noticed the bars.
Bruce
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05:04:35pm
re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
"The top stamp is an American flag"
But why is the flag horizontally flipped?
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
14 Aug 2014
05:30:20pm
re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
"But why is the flag horizontally flipped?"
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
I don't think there are any illegalities concerning the orientation of the U.S. flag when it is displayed. Etiquette, yes. Rules? Don't think so. I've noticed the "flipped horizontally" orientation on when the flag is shown as a patch on soldiers' left shoulder.
Same orientation is used on vehicles and wall displays with other flags.
Bob
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
I assume the flag was carved correctly but when used as a cancel it became inverted. The reason the US military wear one flag that looks like it is in reverse is because we don't want our flag to look like it is in retreat.
Vince
PS Bob , I am a former Corpsman but never saw combat (1980-1984). Now I'm a soon to be retired Philadelphia Fireman/EMT.
Thank you for your service!
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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
19 Sep 2014
02:09:39pm
re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
I came across this great link. I own this book. Now I can carry it on my cellphone.
https://archive.org/stream/CancellationsAndKillersOfTheBanknoteEra18701894/CancellationsAndKillersOfTheBanknoteEra1870-1894150dpi#page/n1/mode/2up
Bob
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
I have started a collection of fancy cancels on the large Banknote issue 3c green. Here is a page from my budding collection. I obtained a hardback copy of Cole's book and just recently downloaded the online version.
I picked the St. Louis shield up from Richard Drews a few years back. The others I have found in misc eBay auctions.
Regards,
Don
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Springfield, Mass and a few Boston negatives.
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Fantastic posts! I've been collecting fancy cancels, but haven't given much thought on how to organize or display them. Great ideas. Thanks.
Steve
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Mine are a hodge podge. I got inspiration from this thread to take a look at mine. Right now they are all in Vario sheets. Time to get to work!
Don
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Great post!
Please stop posting images of your great fancy cancels - I am constantly wiping of the drool from my keyboard
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
I like SON (or SOTN) Fancy Cancels!
Lars
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Hi Everyone;
Does anyone know how many different US flags are still legal to fly, without peeking on the internet?
And does anyone know which is the only flag to have 15 red/white stripes and why, again without
looking it up?
just some flag trivia....
TuskenRaider
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Larsdog! Excellent stuff.
I hope that you saw a recent post of mine where I complemented you greatly on your modern US collection. Your presentation has influenced me to FOCUS...
Ok - back on topic - a few SON fancies on the 3 cent bank note for the group. (you've seen the Springfield pair on cover)
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Don,
I really LIKE those! I'm a sucker for a sock on the nose!
Thank you for your kind words.
Lars
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11:16:58am
re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
I have always been drawn to fancy cancels.
Here is an eBay anomaly I have experienced albeit in my micro world of experience with a limited numbers of buyers and sellers:
Stamps off cover with socked on the nose fancy cancels sell for more than those same stamps on cover with socked on nose cancels.
Whether this would extend past eBay, I can't say nor can I explain it other than perhaps preference.
Bruce
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
"Stamps off cover with socked on the nose fancy cancels sell for more than those same stamps on cover with socked on nose cancels."
Bruce, I hadn't noticed that. But then I usually put the phrase "-cover" in the search string to omit covers! I do that because of the glut of FDCs that I am not interested in. I really hadn't been interested in covers at any point in my collecting experience, but since joining SOR and seeing all of the wonderful covers people have collected, I am slowly warming up to them!
Steve
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
I started scanning more covers to my files. This is making it easier to organize them. Anyway here is a year date 1870 from Watkins, NY.
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Two more covers for tonight for your viewing pleasure.
The first is a shield from Worcester, MA
The second is a checker board from Sacramento, CA.
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Vinman,
Great material, please post more if you have any.
Donhearl,
"I have started a collection of fancy cancels on the large Banknote issue 3c green. Here is a page from my budding collection. I obtained a hardback copy of Cole's book and just recently downloaded the online version."
Where did you find the Cole books ? I'd love to have them.
Tom
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Fancy cancels on U.S. stamps is one of my favorite areas of collecting. I have a PDF file of CANCELLATIONS AND KILLERS OF THE BANKNOTE ERA 1870 - 1894 by James M. Cole. I would be glad to email a copy to anyone interested, if possible. It's 98MB so I 'm not sure if it would work.
I also have a hard copy of United States Cancellations 1845-1869 by Skinner and Enos.
If anyone has something that is really stumping them I could take a look. It's quite time consuming looking so I would ask to keep to a minimum of inquiries.
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Hi Mitchell,
I think it may have been back in the eBay message board days that you showed some of your Banknotes with cancels. I have a decent library covering cancels.
There is a fancy cancel from Pennsylvania but not sure of the town, maybe Pottsville or Pottstown that was carved to frame the busts on the Large Banknotes. I seen it come up at auction once and I was the under bidder. If See it again I will bid high, it's The Holy Grail of cancels. I have to look through mt literature for a picture of it.
By the way, I have been collecting cancels for about twenty years and am a member of The US Cancellation Club, actually I'm the president. It's a great club if you collect 19th century US cancels and postmarks. I handle the back issue so if anyone would like a complimentary copy just email off board.
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
vinman,
Great NYFM's, when I get pictures I'll show some of mine.
Antonius,
I'd like an email copy of the Cole book, please.
Tom
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Mitchell,
I just checked out your page of US Fancy Cancels and you have a copy of the cancel I was referring to in my previous post. It is on your 7cent stamp. I am looking for a use on cover. I remember chatting with you about that stamp and cancel a few years ago on another chat board.
Vince
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Vince, Good to see you. When you noted that cancel in your post that 7 center was the one I thought you were talking about. I am glad to finally know where it originated, I cannot find it in the Cole book. It's a shame the stamp is damaged but have always rather hoped the cancel had some value. It's the coolest cancel that I have ever come across on a Banknote. You're are saying it is the "holy Grail" of banknote cancels which sounds good to me. Do you know what value it adds to a sound stamp and an estimate of what it would be on a damaged one such as mine? I've made a 600 dpi scan of the stamp seen below.
Thanks for the invite but I'm not really a joiner of clubs and my collecting interests are spread pretty thin in trying to keep track of the world.
Tom, Sure I would be happy to send you a copy. Send me your email address and I'll give it a try.
Does anyone know how I could upload it to my site and make it available for download.
Mitchell
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Mitchell,
It is my Holy Grail. There are some more valuable cancels out there but that is the one I am always hoping to find. I bid on a perfect strike on a sound stamp at least ten years ago and I remember being the under bidder at $700.00. If I come across another it will probably be my one purchase for the year. I learned a lesson with that,if I really want an item and don't think it will come up for sale anytime soon I will just bite the bullet and go for it. I do know a collector friend who has several copies and would like to make a trade with him.
Vince
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Tom et al, I've uploaded the CANCELLATIONS AND KILLERS OF THE BANKNOTE ERA 1870 - 1894 by James M. Cole. to my website.
When I click on it the file it comes up perfectly for me. If it does not for you and you cannot download from there, let me know and I will email the file to you. Have fun!
Here is the URL: http://mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/us_cancels1870.pdf.
Vince, Could you check on the name of the town where the cancel originated so I can make note of it. Does it have an alpha-numeric designation? Is the cancel known on all of the Large Banknote issues and denominations? If not what other years besides 1870-71 was the cancel known to be used.
What was the Issue year and denomination of the one that passed you by for $700? I'm trying to determine what the cancels value is. No doubt it would be worth more on a 90 center than a 3 center. It seems that it was only used for a short while, I would not doubt that it was used mostly in 1870-71 before wearing out.
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
the japanese call these obliterators - "buttons" ... manufacturered in NYC, Bryan took 2 sets to japan for use in 1875 foreign mail dept. 1 for USPA, and 1 for IJPO FM dept. they worked side by side. forged steel indicia that over time cracked or broke. - yielding new cancel forms.
Canada post also used similar hammers ... fancy cancels are common during 19c.
Prussians served in union army and settled in NYC. as gunsmiths, they likely also produced cast iron hammers for postal use ...
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Mitchell,
I did a little checking and it is from Pottsville, PA. I found it being mentioned on Richard Frajola's in 2008. Not much about it but it is referred to as "Key Hole" cancel and being made specifically to use on the Large Banknotes. The stamp that was shown is a 24 cents Banknote. I responded to that post and said then it was my Holy Grail of fancy cancels.
Here is a link to the page it was mentioned on.http://www.philamercury.com/board.php?ys=0&ob=oldest&qs=patent%20cancel&sa=1&pg=5
Vince
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Vince, Thanks for the info
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re: Fancy cancels on the Large Banknote issues, Scott US #134-218
Antonius,
For some reason I cannot send messages to anyone here, not even the moderators.
When I click on someone's email address I get a pop-up window that states---"Could not perform this operation because the default mail client is not properly installed"
I have never seen this message anywhere else.
I am able to respond to messages sent to me.
Tom
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