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Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
If you have any question on Algerian stamps, I will be happy to help.
Happy to join stamporama
regards.
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06:54:09pm
Welcome, Abderrahmane! First citizen of Algeria I communicated with, and I hope not the last. If you like stamps, you will like it here. Your grasp of English is wonderful, much better than some of us who were born in English speaking countries. So settle back, and post a lot of messages.
Bobby
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Welcome Abderrahmane. Your English is just fine. I could not possible write to you in Arabic and my French is terrible. It is very good to have you with us.
Regards ... Tim
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06:58:12pm
Welcome Abderrahmane - so good to have you join us.
I look forward to learning more about Algerian stamps from you. That is one area of collecting I do not know well.
Kelly
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Welcome to the group Abderrahmane. I confess I have very little knowledge about stamps and postal history of North Africa; so hope to learn a lot from your posts.
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On vous souhaite un bon "welcome", Abderrahmane.
John Derry
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Thank you all for my welcoming.
attached few FDCs to introduce my country
Commemoration of the first independent stamp issued in 01/11/1962
1st Butterflies issue : date of issue 20/06/1981
Moscow Olympic games 1980
Handicarfts issue in 03/05/1990
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07:12:17am
Welcome to Stamporama Abderrahmane.
Alyn
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Bienvenue Abderrahmane! J'aime bien votre FDC avec les papillons! J'ai un autre de Canada avec les monarques.
(My french isn't awesome, I'm still learning, but it's part of my way to say welcome!)
- Meghan
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Nice covers! Thank you for sharing these.
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Welcome to Stamporama, Abderrahmane. I look forward to seeing more of your posts.
I have recently begun learning more about Algeria, specifically the Algerian War (1954-1962), which few people in the West seem to be aware of, certainly not like the Vietnam War. I was in Vietnam with the U.S. Marines in 1966; my experiences there heightened my awareness of colonialism generally. Although by that time South Vietnam was nominally free, wealthy Catholics who had come of age during colonial times were governing in much the same way that France had governed, in other words with little regard for the welfare of the population.
One of the prized items in my collection is a postcard posted by an American sailor on the hospital ship U.S.S. Haven as it was nearing Oran with French soldiers who had survived the 1954 Battle of Dien Bien Phu. I've always thought it most ironic that many of those soldiers probably went from combat and incarceration as POWs right back into combat either on the side of the France or the Algerian insurgents.
I have recently obtained three interesting stamps (one French, two Algerian), shown below:
• The French stamp at the top, showing the Roman Gates of Lodi in Medea, Algeria, was issued in 1961.
• The overprinted French stamp in the middle was issued July 2, 1962, three days before the proclamation of Algerian independence. "E A" stands for Etat Algéria, State of Algeria. Four other French stamps, all definitives, were similarly overprinted; typographd overprints exist in various sizes, although the letters were supposed to be 3mm X 6mm. Post offices were allowed to make their own rubber stamps, but pencils and pens were also used. Overprint colours include black, red, blue, and violet.
• The Algerian stamp at the bottom is, of course, similar to the French stamp, with the Arabic rather than Roman characters for Republic of Algeria and Lodi. (The Scott catalogue notes that the Arabic stands for Republique Algeriénne, but Google Translate returns quite different script — ريبابليك الجزائرية — than appears on the stamp.
I also have coming in the mail this cover, posted to France from a French soldier during the Algerian War:
Bob
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Very pleased to know you are interested in the Algeria war 1954-1962. The independence of Algeria has inspired more than one African country to freedom. The tribe paid for independence is of 1,500,000 martyrs
I started a presentation on the history of Algeria through modern stamps but its in French language). I presented it at an exhibition in France in 2003. As soon as my other computer will be repaired I will put on stamporama.
there are several varieties of stamps overprinted "EA" Algerian state. officially there are 5 offices who were in charge of bringing overload "EA" but going to have to mail a variety of overloads have emerged. An association in France "PhilEA" is specialized in search of such stamps.
I will always welcome your comments on my publications.
foudutimbre
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Foudutimbre,
I mentioned that the Scott catalogue translation of the Arabic on the Algerian Port du Lodi stamp seems to be incorrect. Could you provide a correct translation? Also, is the Arabic translation of Port du Lodi correct?
Thanks,
Bob
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the correct translation for anciennes portes de Lodi is: old doors (gates)of Lodi.
I think that Scott missed the "e" of porte
regards
foudutimbre
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"The Scott catalogue notes that the Arabic stands for Republique Algeriénne, but Google Translate returns quite different script"
Loosely transliterated to Latin script, the country inscription reads Al-Jumhuriyat Algeriah, literally The Algerian Republic. So, Scott is right on the money (try translating with this phrase instead). English (also French?) often drops the definite article, so the translation might skip the "Al".
"Also, is the Arabic translation of Port du Lodi correct?"
Actually, the de Lodi is replaced by Al-Bareed, literally The Post. So, it is not a translation.
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Apologies for misunderstanding your question Bob
1. Répubique Algérienne in french language or Algerian Republic in English, in arabic is : الجمهورية الجزائرية (EL DJOUMHOURIYA EL DJAZAIRIA)
2. Lodi is the name of the place given by the french settlers in 1848 at Medea:
The town took the name of Lodi during the French period. Name perpetuated the memory of
the Battle of the Bridge of Lodi 1796, French victory over the coalition that allowed
General Napoleon Bonaparte to seize Milan during the Italian campaign.
3 Term of "post" in arabic is بريد (Bareed)
Foudutimbre
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what a wonderful dialogue. I know little of the battle for Algeria, other than that it was carried out mercilessly. I pity both sides.
Oran figures prominently in the second war as the home port of the Vichy fleet and one of the jumping off points for the American invasion of North Africa. It was America's first blood letting on land in the European theatre.
I hope this continues.
Je suis tres joli que vous etes famille de SOR Abderrahmane et je veut qe mon Francais n'est pas terrible.
David
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Welcome to SOR Foudutimbre, may you enjoy your time here.
Mike
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Bienvenue Foudutimbre.
El Salam Aleikum, Abderrahmane.
Now David, I think you may have used Google translate and for me...no insult meant, it is hilarious...
: You are very pretty that ...etc... beware of Google translate folks! On the other hand, nice try...the meaning is conveyed. And you get 100 for effort.
""Je suis tres joli que vous etes famille de SOR Abderrahmane et je veut qe mon Francais n'est pas terrible."
rrr...
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no, faulty memory, not google, is the cause of any "mal mots"
my French was never good, and elapsed time has not improved anything
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I thought this site exclusively English, and happy to know and receive some words in french language and arabic.
I am familiarizing myself with the different sections that took me because my poor english vocabulary. Thanks to google translator.
Many thanks for welcoming
Merci pour l'accueil les amis
Foudutimbre
crasy of stamps)
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Thank you for the detailed translation, Foudutimbre. I'm reminded of the time I tried to get a translation of the addresses on a Chinese cover. Four Chinese speakers translated it for me, and not one of the four translations was in agreement with the others. I sometimes think that half of the problems in the world result from the lack of common language.
I've scanned another couple of stamps in my collection. This one was issued by Algeria in 1973, commemorating the signing of the Paris Peace Accord which ended American combat in Vietnam:
If you wouldn't mind, Foudutimbre, I'd appreciate a translation of the Arabic inscription.
Another stamp is this one, commemorating, according to Scott, the mujahid (singular of mujahadine?) during the war in Algerian War against France. A Mujahid was a member of the National Liberation Army. I don't know the significance of the years indicated, 1956-1966.
I just found this interesting Wikipedia image, showing Commando de marine, the special operations forces of the French Navy. The cutline doesn't provide details, but since it appears in the Wikipedia article about the Algerian War, I assume that it shows commandos in Algeria. It could have been taken in Vietnam — the helicopter, a Sikorski UH34D is the one that the U.S. Marines used. I flew in it several times in training and in combat in Vietnam, most importantly when one transported me to a field hospital after I was wounded and then to the U.S.S.Repose hospital ship for surgery.
I was just reading in Wikipedia that the Algerian War is considered to be the first "asymmetrical" war in which traditional military units armed with modern weapons faced insurgents made up largely of civilian volunteers who were unable to confront their enemies directly but could hide easily in their communities and continually harass and wear down opposing troops with small but unrelenting attacks. I saw this in Vietnam. I was there for a whole 37 days before I was wounded, and in that time I saw only one confirmed Viet Cong and no North Vietnamese soldiers at all, yet at the end of my tour of duty my battalion had taken heavy casualties, including 10 dead and 20 wounded in my own company. By the time I was wounded, I was convinced that the U.S. had no business in Vietnam and could never win anything except a Pyrrhic victory, possibly with the use of nuclear bombs.
Bob
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06:44:13pm
Bob, My old Yvert et Tellier catalogue gives the caption "Journée du combattant" for that 1966 Algerian stamp. Unfortunately, no further info given.
Roy
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"Four Chinese speakers translated it for me, and not one of the four translations was in agreement with the others."
That is pretty unfortunate, and I can almost imagine your dilemma. Well, the Oriental scripts are difficult because the trick is in reading the script itself. But most abugidas (Devaganari, Nastaliq, for eg.) are reasonably straightforward to "read", and a good dictionary can then help.
For your benefit, I am re-writing the inscriptions from the stamp here; followed by a loose transliteration, and then with the translation.
Inscription:
Line 1: الجمهÙورية الجزائرية الديمقراطيَة الشعبيَة
Line 2: تقديرٌا للشعب الÙيتنامي
Transliteration:
Line 1: al-jumhUrIyat aljaZA'irIat al-dImaqrATyat a(l)-sH`abyah
Line 2: taqdIrAn li(l)-sH`ab al-fiyatnAmI
(capital letters denote long vowels or "variants" of consonants. Arabic has multiple symbols for what is loosely s and d in Latin. ` is for a guttural consonant, while the apostrophe is for the guttural stop).
Translation:
jumhUrIyat = Republic
al-jazA'ir = Algeria
dImaqrATy = Democracy - new word, borrowed
sH`ab = People
Many feminine nouns end with the ta-marbuta (Ø©) which is just pronounced as a "h" on its own, but becomes a "t" when combined with other words or phrases. Like some other languages (eg. Romance group) adjectives always follow.
Line 1: The Republic Algerian Democratic People's
Or: The People's Democratic Republic of Algeria
taqdIr = (v.) To appreciate or recognize
sH`ab = People (as before)
fiyatnAm = Vietnam
Arabic does not have several sounds common in the Eastern World, such as v (Arabic only has w), p, etc.
Line 2: Recognition of People Vietnamese
OR: Recognition of the Vietnamese People
The inscription at the bottom reads as "The Post".
The second stamp reads: يوم المجاهد. Transliterated as yaUm al-mujAhid. The first word stands for day, but the second word (mujAhid) is very loaded. Originally, it means someone on a righteous pursuit, here perhaps meaning a freedom fighter. I do not know of the significance of the year either, but I reckon a significant (militaristic) event occurred in 1956 related to their fight for Independence. foudutimbre might be able to clarify.
(PS: Many masculine nouns have plurals formed by adding In to it. So, mujAhidIn indeed is the plural for mujAhId).
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what is the significance of the red bandannas?
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David asked, "What is the significance of the red bandannas?"
I wish I knew. The photograph I posted is apparently a hand (or computer) coloured black & white photograph:
These troops may be members of the French 1st Foreign Parachute Regiment, which fought in the Algerian War. The bandanas appear white, which could happen if red filtration were used in creating the photograph. I could find only a few colour images of the regiment; members sometimes wore red berets and/or red epaulettes. I have to say that the photograph triggers me a bit, as it no doubt does any surviving members of that regiment.
Here's a photograph of my platoon running for its Seahorse chopper the day before I was wounded:
Bob
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Nice pictures Bob,
Arab is read from right to left
Classic arab is the same for all arabian countries (same words writing, speaking & spelling) every where but there is some differences in the oral with some different prononciation compared to different regions.
Regarding the stamps
stamp issued in 1973
FROM up to down
الجمهورية Republic
الجزائرية Algerian
الديمقراطية Democratic
الشعبية Popular
الجمهورية الجزائرية الديمقراطية الشعبية: Algerian Republic Democratic & Popular.
تقـــــــــد يرً للشعب اللÙيتنامي : in honor of the Vietnamese people : same expression infrench language on the stamp : en hommage au peuple Vietnamien
few other inforamtion :
Issue date : 17/02/1973
Size : 35,96 X 51,46
Perforation : 11 1/2
Print : 2.000.000
withdrawal date : 06/11/1976
printer : Courvoisier (Switzerland)
will be back for the second stamps
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Thank you for the continued help with translation, Foudutimbre. I think we are very fortunate that you joined Stamporama.
Bob
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With pleasure Bob
regarding the second stamps
FDC
these two stamps were issued to commemorate the 10th anniv of "Day of Mudjahid" day of combatant or warrior.
The date of 20 August 1956 was chosen with respect to Congress Soumam brought together several leaders of the revolution to define the action to take in the struggle for the independence of Algeria (I do hope it is clear, because I used google translator; if no, I will try another translation)
few philatelic information
1st stamp value 0,30+0,10
date of issue : 20/08/1966
Size : 23 X 32,5
Perforation : 11 1/2
Print : 1.000.000
withdrawal date : 31/12/1968
Designer : Mohammed RACIM
Printer : Courvoisier (Switzerland)
2nd stamp value 0,95+0,10
date of issue : 20/08/1966
Size : 23 X 32,5
Perforation : 11 1/2
Print : 500.000
withdrawal date : 31/12/1968
Designer : Mohammed RACIM
Printer : Courvoisier (Switzerland)
I will publish my presentation named "History of Algeria through its stamps" unfortunately it is in french language.
regards
Abderrahmane
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Earlier in this thread I posted an image of an overprinted French and Algerian stamps related to the end of the Algerian War of Independence. The war lasted from 1954 until 1962. When independence was finally achieved postal officials authorized the overprinting of five French stamps to obliterate reference to France and identify them as Algerian with the initials "E.A."— Etat Algérien. I now have three more Algerian overprints:
I bought these stamps recently on eBay. The overprints, according to Scott, vary greatly in quality and style because local post offices were authorized to make and use rubber stamps. Even pencilled overprints are known, which of course makes one wonder how many bogus overprints are out there (although Scott doesn't mention that as a problem). I don't think I will ever stop being fascinated by the many ways that stamps reveal the history of this benighted planet.
Bob
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At independence of Algeria and to ensure continuity of the postal service, a decision was made in date of June 27th, 1962 which consisted of overprinted some curent use French stamps.
According to official information, there is two types a "hand overprint" and another "typeset". 6 offices were allowed to do these overprinted.
Face to this gap in the post independence stamps, several French stamps were orverprinted "EA". The multitude of varieties, a French association called "Phil-EA" was created to identifying and studying all the stamps bearing overprinted "EA".
Foudutimbre
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Yesterday, at VANPEX 2014, I purchased two more Algeria covers. They are philatelic, but nevertheless nicely represent the evolution of postage stamps in 1962 at the end of the eight-year Algerian War for independence from France. To recap earlier posts:
• In 1946, Algeria was "redefined" by the French government as a département d’outre-mer (overseas department), roughy equivalent to the county system of English-speaking countries. This meant that Algerians and Algeria were under law a part of France with the same rights and responsibilities of departments within Metropolitan France métropolitaine or la Métropole), the part of France located in Europe. Thus, Algerians used French postage stamps.
• When the war ended offically on July 5, 1962, Algerian postal authorities authorized the use of existing stocks of five French stamps by allowing them to be overprinted with the initials "E.R." for Etat Algérien and with bars to obliterate the inscription "République Française". Foudutimbre, a Stamporama member who lives in and collects Algerian stamps, mentions these overprints in the previous post.
According to the Scott catalogue, "The size of the letters was specified as 3X6mm each, but various sizes were used. The post offices had permission to make their own rubber stamps. Typography, pen or pencil were also used. Many types exist. Colors of hand-stamped overprints include black, red, blue, violet." As you can see, the overprints on the following cover are crudely done, and there are no bars (instead of bars, the "E.A." stamped impressions were used to partially obliterate "Republique Française"):
• On November 1, 1962, Algeria issued five "home-grown" stamps. Scott's description: "The designs of Nos. 291-295 are similar to French issues of 1959-61 with "Republique Algerienne" replacing ""Republique Française". Three of the five new stamps (two of five different designs) frank the following cover; the other three stamps are overprinted French stamps, this time with bars to obliterate "Republique Française":
It seems impossible that forgeries of the "E.T." overprints don't abound, but Scott doesn't mention that possibility. The current Scott values of complete sets of the overprinted stamps:
• With typographed overprint: U.S. $23.10 for MNH, $10.60 for used
• With handstamped overprint: U.S.$78.10 for MNH, $52.25 for used
I paid CAN $35 each for the covers. The stamps alone on the August 31,1962 cover catalogue at U.S. $31.50. The November 30, 1962 cover was probably overpriced; its stamps catalogue at only U.S. $5.70. However, the mixed franking is interesting. I have long since given up trying to determine the street value of postal history. To me, it's always worth what I'm willing to pay for it!.
If you think I was an idiot to pay CAN $70 for the covers, please don't tell me! 
If you think I got a bargain, let me know! 
Bob
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Definitely worth it, IMHO.
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Welcome to the site. 
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Continuing the discussion begun by Foudutimbre, our new Algerian member, here's a cover that arrived today (an eBay purchase):
The two stamps are overprints of French stamps that were used in Algeria until the end of the Algerian War, when Algeria finally gained independence after an eight-year struggle. The "E.A." overprint stands for "Etat Algérien" (State of Algeria); it was authorized for use on existing stocks of French stamps, until the first Algerian stamps to appear with Arabic inscriptions, and similar to the design of French stamps formerly in use, were issued in November, 1962. While the overprints were "official," postal officials allowed postmasters to create their own devices for the actual overprinting, which ranges widely in quality and fonts. Pen and pencil overprints were made as well, although I don't have any of those. Perhaps I could make some!
If you scroll back through this thread, you'll see some of the different fonts that were used. (The black bars of the overprints serve to obliterate "Republique Francaise".)
The cover took 48 days to arrive at Windsor. Service from Algeria may not be much better today: Foutdutimbre sent me some stamps on September 17, but they haven't yet arrived in Vancouver. The cover has a receiver stamp on the back, applied by the General Delivery section of the Windsor, Ontario post office:
Note the "B. Windsor" of the receiver. I have no idea what the "B." stands for. Any ideas?
Bob
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My name is Abderrahmane, I am from Algeria (North Africa), collect stamps since a long time and join stamporama through a web surfing. My main speaking languages are french & arabic so I beg your pardon if a misunderstanding of my bad English occurs.
If you have any question on Algerian stamps, I will be happy to help.
Happy to join stamporama
regards.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
07 Aug 2014
06:54:09pm
re: Hello from Algeria
Welcome, Abderrahmane! First citizen of Algeria I communicated with, and I hope not the last. If you like stamps, you will like it here. Your grasp of English is wonderful, much better than some of us who were born in English speaking countries. So settle back, and post a lot of messages.
Bobby
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re: Hello from Algeria
Welcome Abderrahmane. Your English is just fine. I could not possible write to you in Arabic and my French is terrible. It is very good to have you with us.
Regards ... Tim
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07 Aug 2014
06:58:12pm
re: Hello from Algeria
Welcome Abderrahmane - so good to have you join us.
I look forward to learning more about Algerian stamps from you. That is one area of collecting I do not know well.
Kelly
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07:30:41pm
re: Hello from Algeria
Welcome to the group Abderrahmane. I confess I have very little knowledge about stamps and postal history of North Africa; so hope to learn a lot from your posts.
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
07 Aug 2014
11:20:45pm
re: Hello from Algeria
On vous souhaite un bon "welcome", Abderrahmane.
John Derry
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re: Hello from Algeria
Thank you all for my welcoming.
attached few FDCs to introduce my country
Commemoration of the first independent stamp issued in 01/11/1962
1st Butterflies issue : date of issue 20/06/1981
Moscow Olympic games 1980
Handicarfts issue in 03/05/1990
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08 Aug 2014
07:12:17am
re: Hello from Algeria
Welcome to Stamporama Abderrahmane.
Alyn
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re: Hello from Algeria
Bienvenue Abderrahmane! J'aime bien votre FDC avec les papillons! J'ai un autre de Canada avec les monarques.
(My french isn't awesome, I'm still learning, but it's part of my way to say welcome!)
- Meghan
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re: Hello from Algeria
Nice covers! Thank you for sharing these.
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re: Hello from Algeria
Welcome to Stamporama, Abderrahmane. I look forward to seeing more of your posts.
I have recently begun learning more about Algeria, specifically the Algerian War (1954-1962), which few people in the West seem to be aware of, certainly not like the Vietnam War. I was in Vietnam with the U.S. Marines in 1966; my experiences there heightened my awareness of colonialism generally. Although by that time South Vietnam was nominally free, wealthy Catholics who had come of age during colonial times were governing in much the same way that France had governed, in other words with little regard for the welfare of the population.
One of the prized items in my collection is a postcard posted by an American sailor on the hospital ship U.S.S. Haven as it was nearing Oran with French soldiers who had survived the 1954 Battle of Dien Bien Phu. I've always thought it most ironic that many of those soldiers probably went from combat and incarceration as POWs right back into combat either on the side of the France or the Algerian insurgents.
I have recently obtained three interesting stamps (one French, two Algerian), shown below:
• The French stamp at the top, showing the Roman Gates of Lodi in Medea, Algeria, was issued in 1961.
• The overprinted French stamp in the middle was issued July 2, 1962, three days before the proclamation of Algerian independence. "E A" stands for Etat Algéria, State of Algeria. Four other French stamps, all definitives, were similarly overprinted; typographd overprints exist in various sizes, although the letters were supposed to be 3mm X 6mm. Post offices were allowed to make their own rubber stamps, but pencils and pens were also used. Overprint colours include black, red, blue, and violet.
• The Algerian stamp at the bottom is, of course, similar to the French stamp, with the Arabic rather than Roman characters for Republic of Algeria and Lodi. (The Scott catalogue notes that the Arabic stands for Republique Algeriénne, but Google Translate returns quite different script — ريبابليك الجزائرية — than appears on the stamp.
I also have coming in the mail this cover, posted to France from a French soldier during the Algerian War:
Bob
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re: Hello from Algeria
Very pleased to know you are interested in the Algeria war 1954-1962. The independence of Algeria has inspired more than one African country to freedom. The tribe paid for independence is of 1,500,000 martyrs
I started a presentation on the history of Algeria through modern stamps but its in French language). I presented it at an exhibition in France in 2003. As soon as my other computer will be repaired I will put on stamporama.
there are several varieties of stamps overprinted "EA" Algerian state. officially there are 5 offices who were in charge of bringing overload "EA" but going to have to mail a variety of overloads have emerged. An association in France "PhilEA" is specialized in search of such stamps.
I will always welcome your comments on my publications.
foudutimbre
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re: Hello from Algeria
Foudutimbre,
I mentioned that the Scott catalogue translation of the Arabic on the Algerian Port du Lodi stamp seems to be incorrect. Could you provide a correct translation? Also, is the Arabic translation of Port du Lodi correct?
Thanks,
Bob
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08:12:49pm
re: Hello from Algeria
"The Scott catalogue notes that the Arabic stands for Republique Algeriénne, but Google Translate returns quite different script"
Loosely transliterated to Latin script, the country inscription reads Al-Jumhuriyat Algeriah, literally The Algerian Republic. So, Scott is right on the money (try translating with this phrase instead). English (also French?) often drops the definite article, so the translation might skip the "Al".
"Also, is the Arabic translation of Port du Lodi correct?"
Actually, the de Lodi is replaced by Al-Bareed, literally The Post. So, it is not a translation.
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re: Hello from Algeria
Apologies for misunderstanding your question Bob
1. Répubique Algérienne in french language or Algerian Republic in English, in arabic is : الجمهورية الجزائرية (EL DJOUMHOURIYA EL DJAZAIRIA)
2. Lodi is the name of the place given by the french settlers in 1848 at Medea:
The town took the name of Lodi during the French period. Name perpetuated the memory of
the Battle of the Bridge of Lodi 1796, French victory over the coalition that allowed
General Napoleon Bonaparte to seize Milan during the Italian campaign.
3 Term of "post" in arabic is بريد (Bareed)
Foudutimbre
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re: Hello from Algeria
what a wonderful dialogue. I know little of the battle for Algeria, other than that it was carried out mercilessly. I pity both sides.
Oran figures prominently in the second war as the home port of the Vichy fleet and one of the jumping off points for the American invasion of North Africa. It was America's first blood letting on land in the European theatre.
I hope this continues.
Je suis tres joli que vous etes famille de SOR Abderrahmane et je veut qe mon Francais n'est pas terrible.
David
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re: Hello from Algeria
Welcome to SOR Foudutimbre, may you enjoy your time here.
Mike
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10 Aug 2014
03:11:58pm
re: Hello from Algeria
Bienvenue Foudutimbre.
El Salam Aleikum, Abderrahmane.
Now David, I think you may have used Google translate and for me...no insult meant, it is hilarious...: You are very pretty that ...etc... beware of Google translate folks! On the other hand, nice try...the meaning is conveyed. And you get 100 for effort.
""Je suis tres joli que vous etes famille de SOR Abderrahmane et je veut qe mon Francais n'est pas terrible."
rrr...
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re: Hello from Algeria
no, faulty memory, not google, is the cause of any "mal mots"
my French was never good, and elapsed time has not improved anything
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re: Hello from Algeria
I thought this site exclusively English, and happy to know and receive some words in french language and arabic.
I am familiarizing myself with the different sections that took me because my poor english vocabulary. Thanks to google translator.
Many thanks for welcoming
Merci pour l'accueil les amis
Foudutimbre
crasy of stamps)
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re: Hello from Algeria
Thank you for the detailed translation, Foudutimbre. I'm reminded of the time I tried to get a translation of the addresses on a Chinese cover. Four Chinese speakers translated it for me, and not one of the four translations was in agreement with the others. I sometimes think that half of the problems in the world result from the lack of common language.
I've scanned another couple of stamps in my collection. This one was issued by Algeria in 1973, commemorating the signing of the Paris Peace Accord which ended American combat in Vietnam:
If you wouldn't mind, Foudutimbre, I'd appreciate a translation of the Arabic inscription.
Another stamp is this one, commemorating, according to Scott, the mujahid (singular of mujahadine?) during the war in Algerian War against France. A Mujahid was a member of the National Liberation Army. I don't know the significance of the years indicated, 1956-1966.
I just found this interesting Wikipedia image, showing Commando de marine, the special operations forces of the French Navy. The cutline doesn't provide details, but since it appears in the Wikipedia article about the Algerian War, I assume that it shows commandos in Algeria. It could have been taken in Vietnam — the helicopter, a Sikorski UH34D is the one that the U.S. Marines used. I flew in it several times in training and in combat in Vietnam, most importantly when one transported me to a field hospital after I was wounded and then to the U.S.S.Repose hospital ship for surgery.
I was just reading in Wikipedia that the Algerian War is considered to be the first "asymmetrical" war in which traditional military units armed with modern weapons faced insurgents made up largely of civilian volunteers who were unable to confront their enemies directly but could hide easily in their communities and continually harass and wear down opposing troops with small but unrelenting attacks. I saw this in Vietnam. I was there for a whole 37 days before I was wounded, and in that time I saw only one confirmed Viet Cong and no North Vietnamese soldiers at all, yet at the end of my tour of duty my battalion had taken heavy casualties, including 10 dead and 20 wounded in my own company. By the time I was wounded, I was convinced that the U.S. had no business in Vietnam and could never win anything except a Pyrrhic victory, possibly with the use of nuclear bombs.
Bob
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10 Aug 2014
06:44:13pm
re: Hello from Algeria
Bob, My old Yvert et Tellier catalogue gives the caption "Journée du combattant" for that 1966 Algerian stamp. Unfortunately, no further info given.
Roy
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12:12:44am
re: Hello from Algeria
"Four Chinese speakers translated it for me, and not one of the four translations was in agreement with the others."
That is pretty unfortunate, and I can almost imagine your dilemma. Well, the Oriental scripts are difficult because the trick is in reading the script itself. But most abugidas (Devaganari, Nastaliq, for eg.) are reasonably straightforward to "read", and a good dictionary can then help.
For your benefit, I am re-writing the inscriptions from the stamp here; followed by a loose transliteration, and then with the translation.
Inscription:
Line 1: الجمهÙورية الجزائرية الديمقراطيَة الشعبيَة
Line 2: تقديرٌا للشعب الÙيتنامي
Transliteration:
Line 1: al-jumhUrIyat aljaZA'irIat al-dImaqrATyat a(l)-sH`abyah
Line 2: taqdIrAn li(l)-sH`ab al-fiyatnAmI
(capital letters denote long vowels or "variants" of consonants. Arabic has multiple symbols for what is loosely s and d in Latin. ` is for a guttural consonant, while the apostrophe is for the guttural stop).
Translation:
jumhUrIyat = Republic
al-jazA'ir = Algeria
dImaqrATy = Democracy - new word, borrowed
sH`ab = People
Many feminine nouns end with the ta-marbuta (Ø©) which is just pronounced as a "h" on its own, but becomes a "t" when combined with other words or phrases. Like some other languages (eg. Romance group) adjectives always follow.
Line 1: The Republic Algerian Democratic People's
Or: The People's Democratic Republic of Algeria
taqdIr = (v.) To appreciate or recognize
sH`ab = People (as before)
fiyatnAm = Vietnam
Arabic does not have several sounds common in the Eastern World, such as v (Arabic only has w), p, etc.
Line 2: Recognition of People Vietnamese
OR: Recognition of the Vietnamese People
The inscription at the bottom reads as "The Post".
The second stamp reads: يوم المجاهد. Transliterated as yaUm al-mujAhid. The first word stands for day, but the second word (mujAhid) is very loaded. Originally, it means someone on a righteous pursuit, here perhaps meaning a freedom fighter. I do not know of the significance of the year either, but I reckon a significant (militaristic) event occurred in 1956 related to their fight for Independence. foudutimbre might be able to clarify.
(PS: Many masculine nouns have plurals formed by adding In to it. So, mujAhidIn indeed is the plural for mujAhId).
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re: Hello from Algeria
what is the significance of the red bandannas?
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re: Hello from Algeria
David asked, "What is the significance of the red bandannas?"
I wish I knew. The photograph I posted is apparently a hand (or computer) coloured black & white photograph:
These troops may be members of the French 1st Foreign Parachute Regiment, which fought in the Algerian War. The bandanas appear white, which could happen if red filtration were used in creating the photograph. I could find only a few colour images of the regiment; members sometimes wore red berets and/or red epaulettes. I have to say that the photograph triggers me a bit, as it no doubt does any surviving members of that regiment.
Here's a photograph of my platoon running for its Seahorse chopper the day before I was wounded:
Bob
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re: Hello from Algeria
Nice pictures Bob,
Arab is read from right to left
Classic arab is the same for all arabian countries (same words writing, speaking & spelling) every where but there is some differences in the oral with some different prononciation compared to different regions.
Regarding the stamps
stamp issued in 1973
FROM up to down
الجمهورية Republic
الجزائرية Algerian
الديمقراطية Democratic
الشعبية Popular
الجمهورية الجزائرية الديمقراطية الشعبية: Algerian Republic Democratic & Popular.
تقـــــــــد يرً للشعب اللÙيتنامي : in honor of the Vietnamese people : same expression infrench language on the stamp : en hommage au peuple Vietnamien
few other inforamtion :
Issue date : 17/02/1973
Size : 35,96 X 51,46
Perforation : 11 1/2
Print : 2.000.000
withdrawal date : 06/11/1976
printer : Courvoisier (Switzerland)
will be back for the second stamps
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re: Hello from Algeria
Thank you for the continued help with translation, Foudutimbre. I think we are very fortunate that you joined Stamporama.
Bob
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re: Hello from Algeria
With pleasure Bob
regarding the second stamps
FDC
these two stamps were issued to commemorate the 10th anniv of "Day of Mudjahid" day of combatant or warrior.
The date of 20 August 1956 was chosen with respect to Congress Soumam brought together several leaders of the revolution to define the action to take in the struggle for the independence of Algeria (I do hope it is clear, because I used google translator; if no, I will try another translation)
few philatelic information
1st stamp value 0,30+0,10
date of issue : 20/08/1966
Size : 23 X 32,5
Perforation : 11 1/2
Print : 1.000.000
withdrawal date : 31/12/1968
Designer : Mohammed RACIM
Printer : Courvoisier (Switzerland)
2nd stamp value 0,95+0,10
date of issue : 20/08/1966
Size : 23 X 32,5
Perforation : 11 1/2
Print : 500.000
withdrawal date : 31/12/1968
Designer : Mohammed RACIM
Printer : Courvoisier (Switzerland)
I will publish my presentation named "History of Algeria through its stamps" unfortunately it is in french language.
regards
Abderrahmane
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re: Hello from Algeria
Earlier in this thread I posted an image of an overprinted French and Algerian stamps related to the end of the Algerian War of Independence. The war lasted from 1954 until 1962. When independence was finally achieved postal officials authorized the overprinting of five French stamps to obliterate reference to France and identify them as Algerian with the initials "E.A."— Etat Algérien. I now have three more Algerian overprints:
I bought these stamps recently on eBay. The overprints, according to Scott, vary greatly in quality and style because local post offices were authorized to make and use rubber stamps. Even pencilled overprints are known, which of course makes one wonder how many bogus overprints are out there (although Scott doesn't mention that as a problem). I don't think I will ever stop being fascinated by the many ways that stamps reveal the history of this benighted planet.
Bob
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re: Hello from Algeria
At independence of Algeria and to ensure continuity of the postal service, a decision was made in date of June 27th, 1962 which consisted of overprinted some curent use French stamps.
According to official information, there is two types a "hand overprint" and another "typeset". 6 offices were allowed to do these overprinted.
Face to this gap in the post independence stamps, several French stamps were orverprinted "EA". The multitude of varieties, a French association called "Phil-EA" was created to identifying and studying all the stamps bearing overprinted "EA".
Foudutimbre
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re: Hello from Algeria
Yesterday, at VANPEX 2014, I purchased two more Algeria covers. They are philatelic, but nevertheless nicely represent the evolution of postage stamps in 1962 at the end of the eight-year Algerian War for independence from France. To recap earlier posts:
• In 1946, Algeria was "redefined" by the French government as a département d’outre-mer (overseas department), roughy equivalent to the county system of English-speaking countries. This meant that Algerians and Algeria were under law a part of France with the same rights and responsibilities of departments within Metropolitan France métropolitaine or la Métropole), the part of France located in Europe. Thus, Algerians used French postage stamps.
• When the war ended offically on July 5, 1962, Algerian postal authorities authorized the use of existing stocks of five French stamps by allowing them to be overprinted with the initials "E.R." for Etat Algérien and with bars to obliterate the inscription "République Française". Foudutimbre, a Stamporama member who lives in and collects Algerian stamps, mentions these overprints in the previous post.
According to the Scott catalogue, "The size of the letters was specified as 3X6mm each, but various sizes were used. The post offices had permission to make their own rubber stamps. Typography, pen or pencil were also used. Many types exist. Colors of hand-stamped overprints include black, red, blue, violet." As you can see, the overprints on the following cover are crudely done, and there are no bars (instead of bars, the "E.A." stamped impressions were used to partially obliterate "Republique Française"):
• On November 1, 1962, Algeria issued five "home-grown" stamps. Scott's description: "The designs of Nos. 291-295 are similar to French issues of 1959-61 with "Republique Algerienne" replacing ""Republique Française". Three of the five new stamps (two of five different designs) frank the following cover; the other three stamps are overprinted French stamps, this time with bars to obliterate "Republique Française":
It seems impossible that forgeries of the "E.T." overprints don't abound, but Scott doesn't mention that possibility. The current Scott values of complete sets of the overprinted stamps:
• With typographed overprint: U.S. $23.10 for MNH, $10.60 for used
• With handstamped overprint: U.S.$78.10 for MNH, $52.25 for used
I paid CAN $35 each for the covers. The stamps alone on the August 31,1962 cover catalogue at U.S. $31.50. The November 30, 1962 cover was probably overpriced; its stamps catalogue at only U.S. $5.70. However, the mixed franking is interesting. I have long since given up trying to determine the street value of postal history. To me, it's always worth what I'm willing to pay for it!.
If you think I was an idiot to pay CAN $70 for the covers, please don't tell me!
If you think I got a bargain, let me know!
Bob
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re: Hello from Algeria
Definitely worth it, IMHO.
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re: Hello from Algeria
Welcome to the site.
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re: Hello from Algeria
Continuing the discussion begun by Foudutimbre, our new Algerian member, here's a cover that arrived today (an eBay purchase):
The two stamps are overprints of French stamps that were used in Algeria until the end of the Algerian War, when Algeria finally gained independence after an eight-year struggle. The "E.A." overprint stands for "Etat Algérien" (State of Algeria); it was authorized for use on existing stocks of French stamps, until the first Algerian stamps to appear with Arabic inscriptions, and similar to the design of French stamps formerly in use, were issued in November, 1962. While the overprints were "official," postal officials allowed postmasters to create their own devices for the actual overprinting, which ranges widely in quality and fonts. Pen and pencil overprints were made as well, although I don't have any of those. Perhaps I could make some! If you scroll back through this thread, you'll see some of the different fonts that were used. (The black bars of the overprints serve to obliterate "Republique Francaise".)
The cover took 48 days to arrive at Windsor. Service from Algeria may not be much better today: Foutdutimbre sent me some stamps on September 17, but they haven't yet arrived in Vancouver. The cover has a receiver stamp on the back, applied by the General Delivery section of the Windsor, Ontario post office:
Note the "B. Windsor" of the receiver. I have no idea what the "B." stands for. Any ideas?
Bob
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