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United States/Stamps : eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

 

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StanC
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17 Sep 2014
12:30:03pm
Knowing the value of this stamp, this seems too good to be true. No gum really worries me. I know caveat emptor. I've not bid, but just curious what others think.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371143935723

If this is not the appropriate topic, please let me know. Especially given the Mystic Stamp reward on a certain group of these stamps.

Stan

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

17 Sep 2014
01:01:56pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole! It just screams SCAM!

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StanC
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17 Sep 2014
01:12:02pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

My thoughts exactly. That's exactly what it screamed to me as well.

Stan

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

17 Sep 2014
01:30:21pm

Auctions
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

he lists it as CV of $425. Scott lists it at $170,000 in 2001 catalogue, and a nice example sold for $850,000 plus commission in 2007: http://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news/heritage-re-enters-philatelic-market-with-825-000-inverted-jenny-sale.s?releaseId=1471

something is amiss

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michael78651
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17 Sep 2014
03:38:35pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

The stamp is an obvious fake (lithographed, not engraved).

All of the inverted Jennys in existence (except for a few missing - see the Mystic statement about those) have documentation and history of ownership. No genuine inverted Jenny would be offered for sale/auction without fanfare, or without a certificate of authenticity.

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michael78651
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17 Sep 2014
03:41:35pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I reported it to eBay as it is a replica and is not noted as such in the item description.

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StanC
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17 Sep 2014
03:45:23pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Thanks Michael. I knew a real philatelist would be able to spot what makes up a fake. That brings me to my next question, how can you tell lithographed as opposed to engraved?

I'm still learning how to spot those type of things.

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

17 Sep 2014
03:54:00pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I reported this listing to Stamp Smarter a few minutes ago.

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michael78651
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17 Sep 2014
03:59:02pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Engraved stamps have crisp, sharp lines printed from the metal plates. Also, the color is wrong on the fake stamp and the paper is too "new".

Several years ago, crude facsimiles of the C3a were printed and came onto the market. This one looks like one of those. eBay was flooded with them when they first came out, and some people were stupid enough to pay thousands of dollars for them.

The bottom line is this - do not purchase a stamp that is rare, or a stamp that has a high catalog value unless that stamp has a certificate of authenticity. If it doesn't have a certificate, ask the seller to obtain one. If the seller is unwilling, then that's your clue.

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StanC
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17 Sep 2014
04:13:10pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Wow! So much to learn, and one can't get in trouble if they don't know what to look for. Any recommended reading, that would help me start picking out some of these things and learn more about the art of philately. Thanks again Michael for your detailed information, it's really an education.

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2010ccg

17 Sep 2014
05:15:17pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Thanks for all the info...good stuff

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

17 Sep 2014
08:44:26pm

Auctions
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Stan, good question. Actually, you are doing reading right now. Feel free to do more. Follow your interests. So, for instance, if you want to understand the difference between litho and engraving, look for a primer on stamp printing. LN Williams, although he's dry as year old kindling, is worth a look. Once you know the difference, and can tell it, one looks in Scott or other catalogue to see HOW the stamp was printed.

the other thing is your common sense. Know the value of the thing. If it's $100,000 CV (and this is 8 X that), you will NOT, i repeat NOT, get it for $42.05 plus 1.99 shipping.

and there's always a wealth of information here; read and follow your own interests.

David

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michael78651
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18 Sep 2014
12:24:12am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Read the expansive introduction to the Scott catalogs (if you have Scott). There is alot of good information, with illustrations, on most aspects of a stamp contained in it. Also, the back of the Scott catalog contains a pretty good identifier for stamps from many difficult countries. Scott over the past couple of years also is doing a great job of finally adding great pictures in the country listings to help identify various printing types. The catalog is much more than just a price list.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

18 Sep 2014
01:29:59am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I would simply add that it pays to do your "due diligence" on ANYTHING with a high CV.

For me, anything with a CV of $1000 or more MUST come with a cert. I can't imagine trying to sell something myself that I truly believed was legit and listed for over $1000 without getting a cert first.

Items in the $100 to $999 range are more of a challenge. There are many legit examples for sale and many fakes as well. Being patient and watching several auctions helps. Knowing what to watch for helps, too. For example, 315 has a CV of $210 MH and $1250 used. Scott warns: "Beware of example of 304 with perforations removed". Luckily, 304 has a CV of $60 MH and $2.25 used. It would be VERY risky to cut the perf off of a $60 stamp in hopes of faking a $210 stamp, but you could trim hundreds of used 304s in hopes of selling ONE fake used 315. In fact, the fake I would watch out for most in this case would be the used 304 with jumbo margins and a light cancel that had the perfs removed, the cancel cleaned, and regummed.

Items in the $10 to $100 range are a special case. Often it is not cost effective to send such an item off for a cert. The scammers know this. I see more fakes in this price range than any other. One of the most common scams is to buy a large quantity of common stamps like 599 (20 cents used) and screen them for approximation with 599A ($17.50 used). The scammers sell them as 599A with a full money-back guarantee, but they won't pay for the cert fee is it's bogus and you have to pay for shipping both ways. Even if HALF of their customers returned their stamps, they would still make a tidy profit.

In a nutshell: Learn more and pay less!

Lars

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philatelia
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APS #156650

18 Sep 2014
10:24:35am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Just checked - someone bid on this. Sad.

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

18 Sep 2014
10:58:25am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

This is sad, indeed. Someone will be fleeced. If eBay hadn't closed down their Enhanced Member Reporting System, this might have been avoided.

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StanC
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18 Sep 2014
11:33:33am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Very sad, and glad it's not me. This will be upsetting to the buyer when they go to get it certified.

SOR and good sense kept me from losing money on this item. Thanks.

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michael78651
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18 Sep 2014
12:20:41pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Yes, it is sad that someone is going to get ripped off. However, what was that person's motives? To get a stamp worth hundreds of thousands of dollars for just a dime? That is greed. In the collecting and investing world it is always stated to learn what you are doing before you start. If you want to collect stamps, learn the hobby. Fantastic "bargains" can be found everywhere. The street corner can be a wonderful place for bargain hunters. Want to buy that "ROLEX" watch for $25? They will sell you one. By the time you get the watch home, the "R" and "X" will fall off the dial and you'll have an "ole".

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Bobstamp
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18 Sep 2014
01:34:59pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

StanC said, "This will be upsetting to the buyer when they go to get it certified."

Since the bidder bid, I seriously doubt that he knows about certification. If he did, he never would have bid in the first place.

The knowledge that the average non-collector has about stamps boils down to this: if they haven't seen a particular stamp before, they either assume that it's valuable, or assume that stamps have no value except as colured pieces of paper for children. Sadly, many collectors themselves are unaware of the nuances of stamp collecting and don't bother to educate themselves.

Bob

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StanC
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18 Sep 2014
01:46:36pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I'm glad I decided to get my education before jumping in and buying stamps. Bob, Michael, and Bobby thanks for all your help with my education.

I've looked up L. N. Williams and am going to try to find his book, "Fundamentals of Philately". It looks like it might be the best textbook for learning the fundamentals.

Thanks again to everyone who is helping me.

Stan

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

18 Sep 2014
02:01:42pm

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re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

we're lucky that the seller lists the stamp at $425 and not the real value of $750,000,or else there might be more bids.

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

18 Sep 2014
02:25:38pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I wondered how the seller got that $425 amount to begin with. (By the way, I tried to contact the seller via the eBay channel, and questioned the listing. Not surprisingly, I never got a reply.) Thinking

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TuskenRaider
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18 Sep 2014
05:34:20pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Hi everyone;

For the benefit of beginners at buying stamps online:

Never, never, never buy any stamps on eBay, except large lots of cheap stamps, Which are always good bargains. Make a small purchase of only one cheaper lot (under $5.00), wait til you receive them, keep a written record of your opinion of the overall quality of the lot.

If the deal was real good, favorite that seller, and add a copy of your opinion of the lot you bought, to the favorite record, for future reference, on later purchases. Keep several of these favorite sellers along with your critiques, of their material for reference.

eBay is rife with scammers and crooks for those with minimal experience at spotting scams. Never by from China unless you know them well from SOR.

Keep on stampin
Ken Tall Pines

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

18 Sep 2014
09:34:11pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

"Never, never, never buy any stamps on eBay, except large lots of cheap stamps, Which are always good bargains. Make a small purchase of only one cheaper lot (under $5.00), wait til you receive them, keep a written record of your opinion of the overall quality of the lot."



I disagree. I bought my 5c 2nd Bureau imperf on eBay, and then got a cert. Genuine. Bought all my Zeps except C14 on eBay. Bought all high dollar Columbians on eBay. Bought #1 and #2 on eBay. Bought #39 on eBay. Bought #122 on eBay. Genuine. Genuine. Genuine. ...

Had to return a few, though, but those were a vast minority, and for the prices I paid, I'm very pleased. You just really need to research a LOT to know what kind of scams to watch out for.

Lars

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Bobstamp
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18 Sep 2014
10:00:59pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I've been buying stamps, covers, and postcards on eBay for at least 15 years, with only two problems, both easily and satisfactorily resolved. In fact, I can recall only two purchases which went badly, and neither of them had anything to do with eBay! I doubt that there are any more "scammers and crooks" on eBay than in any other sector of retail sales, and I have no doubt that there are just as many among eBay buyers.

One of the best postal history dealers on the planet sells on eBay, and happens to — generously — host Stamporama. That's Roy Lingen.

The same cautions that apply to buying anything anywhere apply to eBay as well. If I have any doubts about a lot, or a dealer, I send them a message with pointed questions. If I don't like the answer, or have to wait too long for it, I generally don't buy. I do wish that eBay would do more to protect us buyers, but I also hope for world peace, naive person that I am.

Bob

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

18 Sep 2014
10:08:30pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

"The same cautions that apply to buying anything anywhere apply to eBay as well."



Well said! I have encountered the same percentage of dicey individuals on BidStart as eBay, and BOTH of those venues had a lower percentage of shady characters than the local stamp bourse! If I have my doubts, I won't hesitate to ask for a higher resolution scan, and for higher CV items, I generally get what I ask for. If not, that tells me all I need to know.

Lars

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TuskenRaider
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18 Sep 2014
10:13:31pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Hi everyone;

Apparently not everyone on here reads very well. Just because you know what the words are, does not mean you know how to read. Reading includes comprehension.

If you read my reply and comprehended what I said, you would know that it was intended for newbees and beginners. They would not be capable of doing the research that someone of your philatelic knowledge would know how to do. Never assume that everyone is just like you nor thinks like you.

You admit that even you had to return some. Well I've purchased on there 100-150 times, and never returned anything, but then again, I'm a good reader.

It was just a good road map for buying on eBay, if you have never purchased there and are a bit new to stamp collecting. Would you sent your 15 year old to the bank to negotiate a home loan? Rolling On The Floor Laughing

Keep on readin
Ken Tall Pines

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2010ccg

18 Sep 2014
10:13:41pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Yes I have had a major loss on Stamporama...so it can happen on all sites!!!!

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TuskenRaider
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18 Sep 2014
10:29:47pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Hi everyone;

@ bobstamp & larsdog; right back at ya

If you took a poll of stamp collectors outside of yourselves as to whether eBay is no more riskier than other sites you would get a very different opinion. Almost any forum I have been on (over a dozen) would all disagree about the safety of doing business there, as either a buyer or a seller.

It's just too risky for a beginner to spend more than a few dollars there. For a beginner to get burned for $25.00, may cause them to just quit stamp collecting and take up a less risky hobby.

Keep on stampin
Ken Tall Pines

PS; Just as an after thought, 2 years ago I was sent an e-mail congratulating me on the winning bid for a widescreen TV and some other expensive item. They totaled $700.00. I e-mailed spoof@ebay.com and informed them that I did not live in Malaysia, and did not buy those items. They canceled the sales, and I had to change all my passwords. I also had to change my mailing address back to Michigan, because that hacked my account and changed my mailing address.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

18 Sep 2014
11:26:18pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

"Apparently not everyone on here reads very well. Just because you know what the words are, does not mean you know how to read. Reading includes comprehension.

If you read my reply and comprehended what I said, you would know that it was intended for newbees and beginners. They would not be capable of doing the research that someone of your philatelic knowledge would know how to do."



Oh, please, master, enlighten us exactly HOW we are to parse such a nuanced meaning from:

"Hi everyone;

Never, never, never buy any stamps on eBay, except large lots of cheap stamps..."



Sure sounds like you are pontificating to the masses and not the newbies (which, I assume, are relatives of your newbees), but then again, be wary of assumptions, eh?

"Never assume that everyone is just like you nor thinks like you."



I was right! Assuming things is wrong. Perhaps assuming everyone understands your nuanced meaning, especially when there is no evidence of nuance at all, is a bit presumptuous.

"You admit that even you had to return some."



Not many, but a few. One was faults not visible in the scan. On another occasion the seller sent me something different than the image on the listing. Once I even got a pre-cert from William Weiss (he looked at the eBay listing and said it looked legit), but when I won the auction and sent the stamp to Mr. Weiss, he said it was an altered proof, so I sent it back to the seller for a refund.

However, a similar ratio of returns happened at StampWants (and later BidStart) and Stamps2Go. In fact, I have cultivated a relationship with a few dealers that provide me with some special position pieces and I've had to send one back for replacement because of insufficient margins. It's not an unexpected result when the buyer is unable to visually inspect the item in person before the sale.

"Well I've purchased on there 100-150 times"



I currently have 1,138 Feedbacks as a buyer on eBay, so I have about 10 times more experience than you.

"and never returned anything, but then again, I'm a good reader."



If your implication is that I had to return a few items because my reading skills are inferior to yours, I would take issue with that claim. In fact, all I can deduce from your posts is that you come across as an arrogant snob. I, for one, will not be intimidated by such bluster.

You might get away with such poor manners with others, but I will call you out every time. Count on it.

Lars

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APS #220693 ATA#57179

18 Sep 2014
11:41:01pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

"If you took a poll of stamp collectors outside of yourselves as to whether eBay is no more riskier than other sites you would get a very different opinion. Almost any forum I have been on (over a dozen) would all disagree about the safety of doing business there, as either a buyer or a seller.

It's just too risky for a beginner to spend more than a few dollars there. For a beginner to get burned for $25.00, may cause them to just quit stamp collecting and take up a less risky hobby."



That is actually an interesting question. Hopefully I don't do your question an injustice by distilling it down to:

Where have you personally been burned the worst in a philatelic transaction?

a) eBay
b) Non eBay stamp venue (StampWants/BidStart, Stamps2Go, Stamporama, etc.)
c) other online venue
d) stamp bourse at a stamp show and/or meeting
e) auction house
f) private online transaction
g) private in person transaction
h) other

My answer is (b), but I had someone ALMOST pull a fast one on me at a show that would have been much worse.

It would be interesting to see what other people's experience has been.

Lars

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michael78651
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19 Sep 2014
12:38:14am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Had a table at a stamp bourse. A buyer took my binder of new issues that I was selling. He was stopped by security as he was heading out the door. I got lucky.

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Bobstamp
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19 Sep 2014
01:53:20am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

h) Other — In the 1980s, I had a wild hair and decided to start selling approvals. I got a big cheque in the mail for several mint Canada I had sent to a buyer in Montreal, with a want list. I sent a second, more expensive batch of stamps and waited for a cheque. And waited. And waited. Several months later I found his name in a list of philatelic deadbeats.

Bob

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michael78651
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19 Sep 2014
02:26:07am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Had those problems too with approval sales. That list was a pretty good tool.

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philatelia
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APS #156650

19 Sep 2014
11:59:39am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Ugh - now it has TWO BIDS and is up to $100. Sheesh!I Don't Want To See

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michael78651
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19 Sep 2014
12:17:30pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I'm sure if I got a piece of perfed selvedge, a red and blue crayon, and drew the invert Jenny stamp on it, I could sell it for a $1000 on eBay.

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StanC
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19 Sep 2014
12:23:10pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I now know that I don't know enough to purchase stamps on eBay as a beginner. I'm learning that there are nuances to philately that I need to learn in order to be a more sophisticated buyer. Everyone's answer has helped point me in the right direction to learn what I don't know.

Thanks Lars, Ken, Bob, Philatelia, Michael, and others who have helped with my education. This education is a lot cheaper than learning the hard way.

Stan

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19 Sep 2014
12:31:05pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Stan, I really don't think you have a thing to worry about if you decide to try eBay. It's just a matter of registering, arranging your preference for payments, reading listings carefully, checking the feedback records of sellers, and, at first, buying inexpensive lots.

Bob

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19 Sep 2014
12:42:37pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Philatelia said, "Ugh - now it has TWO BIDS and is up to $100. Sheesh!"

Reminds me that while some buyers spend money like they're Arab oil sheiks, others are, well, miserly! When I was selling approvals a mailing was returned, intact. It included some nice mint Canadian stamps ranging in price from a couple of dollars to $10, and was based on the collector's want list. Included with the returns was this memorable note:

"If I had $10 to spend, I certainly wouldn't spend it on stamps!"

Bob

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d1stamper
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19 Sep 2014
01:16:53pm

Auctions
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I wonder if there really is two bids, as the bidders are both private bidders names are private.

No way to see if the seller is making it look like there are bids.

I would not touch this with a 10 foot pole.


I have made a number of purchases ebay and have never had a problem.

As a seller I was taken twice, both claim they never received the items.

Doug

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

19 Sep 2014
01:24:15pm

Auctions
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Stan, I would NOT discourage you from bidding on eBay or anywhere else, even as a beginner. I would discourage you from bidding lots of money or often until you understood stamps and the auction process well. In the meantime, success and, especially, failure help to teach us. Generating $2 and $3 failures is actually a good thing. It's the $100 and $1000 failures that will ruin us

David

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StanC
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19 Sep 2014
01:25:13pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

According to the eBay app on my iPad, there are two bidders and the high bidder is O***3 with 309 feedback. But, I guess this person has more money than sense. Winking

I'm just glad I have SOR, to turn to when I have a question about stamps and stamp collecting.

Stan

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APS Member #196859

19 Sep 2014
03:44:53pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Just to share my own experience with eBay, over the last 14 years I've made over 1,500 stamp purchases on eBay, including 3 purchases of (what for me are) "high-end" stamps: a selling price of over $1000 each. I've never had a bad experience yet--knock on wood!

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APS #220693 ATA#57179

19 Sep 2014
06:06:57pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Stan,

I exercise caution if the stamp is more than $5 or Scott Specialized has a note to beware of fakes, regardless of price. If you have doubts, feel free to air them here!

Douglas,

High end for me is over $100. I haven't spent $1000 on a stamp yet, but I fear I will have to on one or more of the 3 stamps I'm missing.

Lars

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19 Sep 2014
07:18:30pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Lars, when I crossed that $1000 threshold, I knew I was a goner!

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19 Sep 2014
08:06:39pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I would never spend $1,000 on a stamp! You guys are crazy! Now, if you had spent that amount on a cover, that would be perfectly reasonable. Who wouldn't spend that amount on a cover? I mean, there's food, and a roof over your head, and clothing, and I suppose your children may need food (at least in small amounts, as long as they don't get an allowance), but postal history is the very stuff of life, and therefore must be purchased regardless of the cost! And that's what I intend to tell my wife some day. About last year's purchase of this cover. For U.S. $800. When I've figured out how to pay for it.

Image Not Found

The cover was posted by a member of General Pershing's command, from Columbus, New Mexico, during the Pershing Punitive Expedition into Mexico, in search of the Mexican bandit/revolutionary, Pancho Villa, who had attacked Columbus earlier that year. My Grandfather Robert L. Ingraham was a member of the New York State National Guard, which had been federalized and sent to the Mexico-Texas border in support of Pershing's expedition.

Bob

P.S. I rather doubt that I will ever again buy such an expensive cover (or stamp). But who knows...

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19 Sep 2014
08:39:10pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Bob,

That cover is worth every penny! As for telling your wife about it someday, I'm reminded of the story about Jack Benny's nightmare: that, after he died, his wife would sell his violin for what he told her he paid for it.

Image Not Found

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19 Sep 2014
08:53:45pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Regarding all the comments about buying on eBay, please allow me to share some of the comments I make on our own website which lists our weekly eBay auctions:

"{In response to hypothetical questions about buying from us through eBay}
"I don't like dealing with eBay".
When you are buying from us on eBay, you are not "dealing with eBay". That's just the place where your bids are recorded. At the end of the auction (if you are the high bidder), you will be dealing directly with us. You will get the same friendly emails notifying you of your win that you get from your Cover Box orders. We'll combine any other purchases for shipping and do whatever else we can to make adding to your collection easy -- whether it's from our weekly eBay auctions, or from our fixed price listings. "



eBay is a venue. If you know who you are dealing with, either from dealing outside eBay, or because you tested them with a small purchase and got to know them (which hundreds of new customers have done with us), you are dealing with that person, regardless of whether it is through eBay, at the local bourse, or through their retail website.

I believe it is a serious mistake to treat eBay as a seller, rather than as a venue where thousands of sellers congregate. I mean, would you walk into a giant flea market and take the word of every seller there about what they were selling, or buy things for big dollar amounts (whatever that amount is to you) that you didn't truly understand on your own? Not likely.

And Bob, thank you for the lovely compliment.

Roy
eBay rlingen / current feedback rating 37,183

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19 Sep 2014
09:02:01pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

When it comes to stamps on ebay - I've never had troubles. In fact, I've had some sellers bend over backwards for me. When I was building my MNH DDR collection, I found two great sellers - bought year sets. Then I was able to ask them about other year sets. I had one seller that pulled a whole group of BIN auctions offline and I ended up getting them at about 40% discount of what he had requested for BIN. From there he was also able to find me specialties - imperfs, watermark changes, etc that are not found in most general DDR collections. He also gave me the name of another fella who could help me get some things he couldn't. The other fella I dealt with for DDR, because I want mine MNH (my cto's are separate), I emailed him about a few that had creases and asked if I could return them for replacement. They were slight creases that the average collector wouldn't even really notice, but I did. He told me to keep them, sell them or trade them and he sent me replacements no charge. For both of these fellows as well as the other two I dealt with for West Germany and Berlin, if I discovered any missing stamp in the lot, they all happily sent it with no questions. The one fella told me to go through the year lots that I had (which I bought over several months) and tally any that were missing or creased and just send him the list and he'd replace them. Another fella asked me to return them for replacement. I received his replacement the day after I posted his back which was two days after I contacted him (Canada to Germany!).

If I have questions about stamps, I always contact the seller. If I find the seller to be arrogant, I just stop looking at their material. I tend to buy my German State materials in lots. Even though I get duplicates, it all evens out because there will be some that are spacefillers, other that are perfect, others with various cancels. So I'm a happy camper. And I always find that with only a few exceptions, when the sellers see what I am buying, they significantly reduce the "combined postage". I've even had some sent registered post and I paid like $5 for postage which is basically free postage. Others have their postal fees listed and when they see that I'm buying several lots, they'll just send them postage free.

It's rare for me to only buy one stamp or several single stamps from a seller, but I've never been disappointed.

My pocketbook is small, but I keep my eyes out for the good deals and I've managed to build a collection that if bought in small sections would require deep pockets. I like to make the seller know I truly appreciate their meeting me halfway on things. I recently bought a beautiful gem as some of you know. I happened to have won two of his other auctions and I noticed that almost all his BINs also had OBO, except for THAT particular stamp. So I messaged him and mentioned that and asked him if he would take an OBO, would he accept X. He got back to me and said he couldn't take anything less than X which was about $25 more than my offer, so I said "you've got yourself a deal." He sent everything registered post no cost.

I do agree, if you're new to buying - why bother going for the high end stuff? Enjoy your collection. I indulge once in a while and I know how to make a good deal with someone and I've been very pleased with pretty much every transaction, I always come out on the high end of things and I always double check by message if the person accepts returns (even when they specifically note on their page that there are no returns) - if I'm paying X for something and I get it and find it has a thin that was not mentioned, you didn't sell me what you advertised. Thus far - I've had no problems (as mentioned above re: the creases).

The ONLY place I've ever been burned was at a bourse. Go figure!

Kelly

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19 Sep 2014
09:10:52pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Roy -

My first deal with you and Debbie was when you were still doing the stamp lots. I bought a worldwide boxlot from you separated into *really* old envelopes. The message from Debbie said "I have no idea what's in here, have fun!" I found a few nice little surprises in that lot. Shortly after that you went solely to covers, so that was quite a long time ago but boy I was in heaven when I got that lot Happy Some have gone on to other homes and some hold some pretty places in my collection.

Thanks Big Grin

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20 Sep 2014
09:40:27am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I have really enjoyed the aside, but back to the auction, it closed for $100. The interesting thing is to look at the bid history. Two bids for exactly $100 and a retracted bid for $100! It sure looks like they couldn't get anyone to nibble on that fake. Looks like shill bidding to me.

Lars

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20 Sep 2014
09:47:08am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

The auction actually closed before it's scheduled time. So I am glad that I asked the question, and thank SOR for helping learn a little more about collecting. Thanks again.

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20 Sep 2014
09:28:07pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Speculation:

Now, if the buyer thinks that the seller didn't know the rarity of the item (the seller is in Spain), the buyer will be all giddy when the fake stamp is received, and will contact an auction house to sell it for riches beyond imagination...until the buyer gets educated.

If the seller is out to dupe the buyer (obviously), then the buyer can return the favor by receiving the fake stamp and reporting to eBay that the item received is not as described. eBay will refund the money to the buyer.

If the buyer just doesn't know, then the buyer will put the stamp in the collection, and it will sit there until...

Hopefully, however, some people not involved in the transaction learned a lesson from this example of greed in the philatelic marketplace.

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20 Sep 2014
10:44:35pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Michael,

I think your premise is based on the unwarranted assumption that there actually were any bona fide bidders. If you look at the bid details for that auction, they are all consistent with shill bidders, so maybe they were no actual bidders and the seller gained nothing. I can only hope so!

Lars

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20 Sep 2014
11:44:42pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

It was just speculation.

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14 Dec 2014
11:43:09am
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Thanks, everyone, for a very interesting and entertaining thread !

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I still have more questions than answers

14 Dec 2014
01:01:40pm
re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I have purchased on Ebay thousands of times. While I agree there are crooks out there the vast majority of sellers are not. I have no problem buying on Ebay. I have had sellers make honest mistakes on items that I could not detect until I was able to check a watermark or something like that. They always offered a refund. This seller does not represent the average honest seller on Ebay.

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StanC

17 Sep 2014
12:30:03pm

Knowing the value of this stamp, this seems too good to be true. No gum really worries me. I know caveat emptor. I've not bid, but just curious what others think.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371143935723

If this is not the appropriate topic, please let me know. Especially given the Mystic Stamp reward on a certain group of these stamps.

Stan

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17 Sep 2014
01:01:56pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole! It just screams SCAM!

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StanC

17 Sep 2014
01:12:02pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

My thoughts exactly. That's exactly what it screamed to me as well.

Stan

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
17 Sep 2014
01:30:21pm

Auctions

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

he lists it as CV of $425. Scott lists it at $170,000 in 2001 catalogue, and a nice example sold for $850,000 plus commission in 2007: http://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news/heritage-re-enters-philatelic-market-with-825-000-inverted-jenny-sale.s?releaseId=1471

something is amiss

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michael78651

17 Sep 2014
03:38:35pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

The stamp is an obvious fake (lithographed, not engraved).

All of the inverted Jennys in existence (except for a few missing - see the Mystic statement about those) have documentation and history of ownership. No genuine inverted Jenny would be offered for sale/auction without fanfare, or without a certificate of authenticity.

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michael78651

17 Sep 2014
03:41:35pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I reported it to eBay as it is a replica and is not noted as such in the item description.

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StanC

17 Sep 2014
03:45:23pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Thanks Michael. I knew a real philatelist would be able to spot what makes up a fake. That brings me to my next question, how can you tell lithographed as opposed to engraved?

I'm still learning how to spot those type of things.

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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
17 Sep 2014
03:54:00pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I reported this listing to Stamp Smarter a few minutes ago.

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michael78651

17 Sep 2014
03:59:02pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Engraved stamps have crisp, sharp lines printed from the metal plates. Also, the color is wrong on the fake stamp and the paper is too "new".

Several years ago, crude facsimiles of the C3a were printed and came onto the market. This one looks like one of those. eBay was flooded with them when they first came out, and some people were stupid enough to pay thousands of dollars for them.

The bottom line is this - do not purchase a stamp that is rare, or a stamp that has a high catalog value unless that stamp has a certificate of authenticity. If it doesn't have a certificate, ask the seller to obtain one. If the seller is unwilling, then that's your clue.

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StanC

17 Sep 2014
04:13:10pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Wow! So much to learn, and one can't get in trouble if they don't know what to look for. Any recommended reading, that would help me start picking out some of these things and learn more about the art of philately. Thanks again Michael for your detailed information, it's really an education.

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2010ccg

17 Sep 2014
05:15:17pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Thanks for all the info...good stuff

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
17 Sep 2014
08:44:26pm

Auctions

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Stan, good question. Actually, you are doing reading right now. Feel free to do more. Follow your interests. So, for instance, if you want to understand the difference between litho and engraving, look for a primer on stamp printing. LN Williams, although he's dry as year old kindling, is worth a look. Once you know the difference, and can tell it, one looks in Scott or other catalogue to see HOW the stamp was printed.

the other thing is your common sense. Know the value of the thing. If it's $100,000 CV (and this is 8 X that), you will NOT, i repeat NOT, get it for $42.05 plus 1.99 shipping.

and there's always a wealth of information here; read and follow your own interests.

David

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michael78651

18 Sep 2014
12:24:12am

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Read the expansive introduction to the Scott catalogs (if you have Scott). There is alot of good information, with illustrations, on most aspects of a stamp contained in it. Also, the back of the Scott catalog contains a pretty good identifier for stamps from many difficult countries. Scott over the past couple of years also is doing a great job of finally adding great pictures in the country listings to help identify various printing types. The catalog is much more than just a price list.

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
18 Sep 2014
01:29:59am

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I would simply add that it pays to do your "due diligence" on ANYTHING with a high CV.

For me, anything with a CV of $1000 or more MUST come with a cert. I can't imagine trying to sell something myself that I truly believed was legit and listed for over $1000 without getting a cert first.

Items in the $100 to $999 range are more of a challenge. There are many legit examples for sale and many fakes as well. Being patient and watching several auctions helps. Knowing what to watch for helps, too. For example, 315 has a CV of $210 MH and $1250 used. Scott warns: "Beware of example of 304 with perforations removed". Luckily, 304 has a CV of $60 MH and $2.25 used. It would be VERY risky to cut the perf off of a $60 stamp in hopes of faking a $210 stamp, but you could trim hundreds of used 304s in hopes of selling ONE fake used 315. In fact, the fake I would watch out for most in this case would be the used 304 with jumbo margins and a light cancel that had the perfs removed, the cancel cleaned, and regummed.

Items in the $10 to $100 range are a special case. Often it is not cost effective to send such an item off for a cert. The scammers know this. I see more fakes in this price range than any other. One of the most common scams is to buy a large quantity of common stamps like 599 (20 cents used) and screen them for approximation with 599A ($17.50 used). The scammers sell them as 599A with a full money-back guarantee, but they won't pay for the cert fee is it's bogus and you have to pay for shipping both ways. Even if HALF of their customers returned their stamps, they would still make a tidy profit.

In a nutshell: Learn more and pay less!

Lars

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philatelia

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18 Sep 2014
10:24:35am

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Just checked - someone bid on this. Sad.

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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
18 Sep 2014
10:58:25am

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

This is sad, indeed. Someone will be fleeced. If eBay hadn't closed down their Enhanced Member Reporting System, this might have been avoided.

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StanC

18 Sep 2014
11:33:33am

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Very sad, and glad it's not me. This will be upsetting to the buyer when they go to get it certified.

SOR and good sense kept me from losing money on this item. Thanks.

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michael78651

18 Sep 2014
12:20:41pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Yes, it is sad that someone is going to get ripped off. However, what was that person's motives? To get a stamp worth hundreds of thousands of dollars for just a dime? That is greed. In the collecting and investing world it is always stated to learn what you are doing before you start. If you want to collect stamps, learn the hobby. Fantastic "bargains" can be found everywhere. The street corner can be a wonderful place for bargain hunters. Want to buy that "ROLEX" watch for $25? They will sell you one. By the time you get the watch home, the "R" and "X" will fall off the dial and you'll have an "ole".

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Bobstamp

18 Sep 2014
01:34:59pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

StanC said, "This will be upsetting to the buyer when they go to get it certified."

Since the bidder bid, I seriously doubt that he knows about certification. If he did, he never would have bid in the first place.

The knowledge that the average non-collector has about stamps boils down to this: if they haven't seen a particular stamp before, they either assume that it's valuable, or assume that stamps have no value except as colured pieces of paper for children. Sadly, many collectors themselves are unaware of the nuances of stamp collecting and don't bother to educate themselves.

Bob

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StanC

18 Sep 2014
01:46:36pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I'm glad I decided to get my education before jumping in and buying stamps. Bob, Michael, and Bobby thanks for all your help with my education.

I've looked up L. N. Williams and am going to try to find his book, "Fundamentals of Philately". It looks like it might be the best textbook for learning the fundamentals.

Thanks again to everyone who is helping me.

Stan

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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
18 Sep 2014
02:01:42pm

Auctions

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

we're lucky that the seller lists the stamp at $425 and not the real value of $750,000,or else there might be more bids.

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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
18 Sep 2014
02:25:38pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I wondered how the seller got that $425 amount to begin with. (By the way, I tried to contact the seller via the eBay channel, and questioned the listing. Not surprisingly, I never got a reply.) Thinking

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TuskenRaider

18 Sep 2014
05:34:20pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Hi everyone;

For the benefit of beginners at buying stamps online:

Never, never, never buy any stamps on eBay, except large lots of cheap stamps, Which are always good bargains. Make a small purchase of only one cheaper lot (under $5.00), wait til you receive them, keep a written record of your opinion of the overall quality of the lot.

If the deal was real good, favorite that seller, and add a copy of your opinion of the lot you bought, to the favorite record, for future reference, on later purchases. Keep several of these favorite sellers along with your critiques, of their material for reference.

eBay is rife with scammers and crooks for those with minimal experience at spotting scams. Never by from China unless you know them well from SOR.

Keep on stampin
Ken Tall Pines

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
18 Sep 2014
09:34:11pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

"Never, never, never buy any stamps on eBay, except large lots of cheap stamps, Which are always good bargains. Make a small purchase of only one cheaper lot (under $5.00), wait til you receive them, keep a written record of your opinion of the overall quality of the lot."



I disagree. I bought my 5c 2nd Bureau imperf on eBay, and then got a cert. Genuine. Bought all my Zeps except C14 on eBay. Bought all high dollar Columbians on eBay. Bought #1 and #2 on eBay. Bought #39 on eBay. Bought #122 on eBay. Genuine. Genuine. Genuine. ...

Had to return a few, though, but those were a vast minority, and for the prices I paid, I'm very pleased. You just really need to research a LOT to know what kind of scams to watch out for.

Lars

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Bobstamp

18 Sep 2014
10:00:59pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I've been buying stamps, covers, and postcards on eBay for at least 15 years, with only two problems, both easily and satisfactorily resolved. In fact, I can recall only two purchases which went badly, and neither of them had anything to do with eBay! I doubt that there are any more "scammers and crooks" on eBay than in any other sector of retail sales, and I have no doubt that there are just as many among eBay buyers.

One of the best postal history dealers on the planet sells on eBay, and happens to — generously — host Stamporama. That's Roy Lingen.

The same cautions that apply to buying anything anywhere apply to eBay as well. If I have any doubts about a lot, or a dealer, I send them a message with pointed questions. If I don't like the answer, or have to wait too long for it, I generally don't buy. I do wish that eBay would do more to protect us buyers, but I also hope for world peace, naive person that I am.

Bob

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
18 Sep 2014
10:08:30pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

"The same cautions that apply to buying anything anywhere apply to eBay as well."



Well said! I have encountered the same percentage of dicey individuals on BidStart as eBay, and BOTH of those venues had a lower percentage of shady characters than the local stamp bourse! If I have my doubts, I won't hesitate to ask for a higher resolution scan, and for higher CV items, I generally get what I ask for. If not, that tells me all I need to know.

Lars

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TuskenRaider

18 Sep 2014
10:13:31pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Hi everyone;

Apparently not everyone on here reads very well. Just because you know what the words are, does not mean you know how to read. Reading includes comprehension.

If you read my reply and comprehended what I said, you would know that it was intended for newbees and beginners. They would not be capable of doing the research that someone of your philatelic knowledge would know how to do. Never assume that everyone is just like you nor thinks like you.

You admit that even you had to return some. Well I've purchased on there 100-150 times, and never returned anything, but then again, I'm a good reader.

It was just a good road map for buying on eBay, if you have never purchased there and are a bit new to stamp collecting. Would you sent your 15 year old to the bank to negotiate a home loan? Rolling On The Floor Laughing

Keep on readin
Ken Tall Pines

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2010ccg

18 Sep 2014
10:13:41pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Yes I have had a major loss on Stamporama...so it can happen on all sites!!!!

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TuskenRaider

18 Sep 2014
10:29:47pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Hi everyone;

@ bobstamp & larsdog; right back at ya

If you took a poll of stamp collectors outside of yourselves as to whether eBay is no more riskier than other sites you would get a very different opinion. Almost any forum I have been on (over a dozen) would all disagree about the safety of doing business there, as either a buyer or a seller.

It's just too risky for a beginner to spend more than a few dollars there. For a beginner to get burned for $25.00, may cause them to just quit stamp collecting and take up a less risky hobby.

Keep on stampin
Ken Tall Pines

PS; Just as an after thought, 2 years ago I was sent an e-mail congratulating me on the winning bid for a widescreen TV and some other expensive item. They totaled $700.00. I e-mailed spoof@ebay.com and informed them that I did not live in Malaysia, and did not buy those items. They canceled the sales, and I had to change all my passwords. I also had to change my mailing address back to Michigan, because that hacked my account and changed my mailing address.

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
18 Sep 2014
11:26:18pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

"Apparently not everyone on here reads very well. Just because you know what the words are, does not mean you know how to read. Reading includes comprehension.

If you read my reply and comprehended what I said, you would know that it was intended for newbees and beginners. They would not be capable of doing the research that someone of your philatelic knowledge would know how to do."



Oh, please, master, enlighten us exactly HOW we are to parse such a nuanced meaning from:

"Hi everyone;

Never, never, never buy any stamps on eBay, except large lots of cheap stamps..."



Sure sounds like you are pontificating to the masses and not the newbies (which, I assume, are relatives of your newbees), but then again, be wary of assumptions, eh?

"Never assume that everyone is just like you nor thinks like you."



I was right! Assuming things is wrong. Perhaps assuming everyone understands your nuanced meaning, especially when there is no evidence of nuance at all, is a bit presumptuous.

"You admit that even you had to return some."



Not many, but a few. One was faults not visible in the scan. On another occasion the seller sent me something different than the image on the listing. Once I even got a pre-cert from William Weiss (he looked at the eBay listing and said it looked legit), but when I won the auction and sent the stamp to Mr. Weiss, he said it was an altered proof, so I sent it back to the seller for a refund.

However, a similar ratio of returns happened at StampWants (and later BidStart) and Stamps2Go. In fact, I have cultivated a relationship with a few dealers that provide me with some special position pieces and I've had to send one back for replacement because of insufficient margins. It's not an unexpected result when the buyer is unable to visually inspect the item in person before the sale.

"Well I've purchased on there 100-150 times"



I currently have 1,138 Feedbacks as a buyer on eBay, so I have about 10 times more experience than you.

"and never returned anything, but then again, I'm a good reader."



If your implication is that I had to return a few items because my reading skills are inferior to yours, I would take issue with that claim. In fact, all I can deduce from your posts is that you come across as an arrogant snob. I, for one, will not be intimidated by such bluster.

You might get away with such poor manners with others, but I will call you out every time. Count on it.

Lars

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
18 Sep 2014
11:41:01pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

"If you took a poll of stamp collectors outside of yourselves as to whether eBay is no more riskier than other sites you would get a very different opinion. Almost any forum I have been on (over a dozen) would all disagree about the safety of doing business there, as either a buyer or a seller.

It's just too risky for a beginner to spend more than a few dollars there. For a beginner to get burned for $25.00, may cause them to just quit stamp collecting and take up a less risky hobby."



That is actually an interesting question. Hopefully I don't do your question an injustice by distilling it down to:

Where have you personally been burned the worst in a philatelic transaction?

a) eBay
b) Non eBay stamp venue (StampWants/BidStart, Stamps2Go, Stamporama, etc.)
c) other online venue
d) stamp bourse at a stamp show and/or meeting
e) auction house
f) private online transaction
g) private in person transaction
h) other

My answer is (b), but I had someone ALMOST pull a fast one on me at a show that would have been much worse.

It would be interesting to see what other people's experience has been.

Lars

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michael78651

19 Sep 2014
12:38:14am

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Had a table at a stamp bourse. A buyer took my binder of new issues that I was selling. He was stopped by security as he was heading out the door. I got lucky.

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Bobstamp

19 Sep 2014
01:53:20am

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

h) Other — In the 1980s, I had a wild hair and decided to start selling approvals. I got a big cheque in the mail for several mint Canada I had sent to a buyer in Montreal, with a want list. I sent a second, more expensive batch of stamps and waited for a cheque. And waited. And waited. Several months later I found his name in a list of philatelic deadbeats.

Bob

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michael78651

19 Sep 2014
02:26:07am

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Had those problems too with approval sales. That list was a pretty good tool.

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philatelia

APS #156650
19 Sep 2014
11:59:39am

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Ugh - now it has TWO BIDS and is up to $100. Sheesh!I Don't Want To See

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michael78651

19 Sep 2014
12:17:30pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I'm sure if I got a piece of perfed selvedge, a red and blue crayon, and drew the invert Jenny stamp on it, I could sell it for a $1000 on eBay.

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StanC

19 Sep 2014
12:23:10pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I now know that I don't know enough to purchase stamps on eBay as a beginner. I'm learning that there are nuances to philately that I need to learn in order to be a more sophisticated buyer. Everyone's answer has helped point me in the right direction to learn what I don't know.

Thanks Lars, Ken, Bob, Philatelia, Michael, and others who have helped with my education. This education is a lot cheaper than learning the hard way.

Stan

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Bobstamp

19 Sep 2014
12:31:05pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Stan, I really don't think you have a thing to worry about if you decide to try eBay. It's just a matter of registering, arranging your preference for payments, reading listings carefully, checking the feedback records of sellers, and, at first, buying inexpensive lots.

Bob

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Bobstamp

19 Sep 2014
12:42:37pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Philatelia said, "Ugh - now it has TWO BIDS and is up to $100. Sheesh!"

Reminds me that while some buyers spend money like they're Arab oil sheiks, others are, well, miserly! When I was selling approvals a mailing was returned, intact. It included some nice mint Canadian stamps ranging in price from a couple of dollars to $10, and was based on the collector's want list. Included with the returns was this memorable note:

"If I had $10 to spend, I certainly wouldn't spend it on stamps!"

Bob

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d1stamper

19 Sep 2014
01:16:53pm

Auctions

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I wonder if there really is two bids, as the bidders are both private bidders names are private.

No way to see if the seller is making it look like there are bids.

I would not touch this with a 10 foot pole.


I have made a number of purchases ebay and have never had a problem.

As a seller I was taken twice, both claim they never received the items.

Doug

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
19 Sep 2014
01:24:15pm

Auctions

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Stan, I would NOT discourage you from bidding on eBay or anywhere else, even as a beginner. I would discourage you from bidding lots of money or often until you understood stamps and the auction process well. In the meantime, success and, especially, failure help to teach us. Generating $2 and $3 failures is actually a good thing. It's the $100 and $1000 failures that will ruin us

David

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StanC

19 Sep 2014
01:25:13pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

According to the eBay app on my iPad, there are two bidders and the high bidder is O***3 with 309 feedback. But, I guess this person has more money than sense. Winking

I'm just glad I have SOR, to turn to when I have a question about stamps and stamp collecting.

Stan

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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
19 Sep 2014
03:44:53pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Just to share my own experience with eBay, over the last 14 years I've made over 1,500 stamp purchases on eBay, including 3 purchases of (what for me are) "high-end" stamps: a selling price of over $1000 each. I've never had a bad experience yet--knock on wood!

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
19 Sep 2014
06:06:57pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Stan,

I exercise caution if the stamp is more than $5 or Scott Specialized has a note to beware of fakes, regardless of price. If you have doubts, feel free to air them here!

Douglas,

High end for me is over $100. I haven't spent $1000 on a stamp yet, but I fear I will have to on one or more of the 3 stamps I'm missing.

Lars

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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
19 Sep 2014
07:18:30pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Lars, when I crossed that $1000 threshold, I knew I was a goner!

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Bobstamp

19 Sep 2014
08:06:39pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I would never spend $1,000 on a stamp! You guys are crazy! Now, if you had spent that amount on a cover, that would be perfectly reasonable. Who wouldn't spend that amount on a cover? I mean, there's food, and a roof over your head, and clothing, and I suppose your children may need food (at least in small amounts, as long as they don't get an allowance), but postal history is the very stuff of life, and therefore must be purchased regardless of the cost! And that's what I intend to tell my wife some day. About last year's purchase of this cover. For U.S. $800. When I've figured out how to pay for it.

Image Not Found

The cover was posted by a member of General Pershing's command, from Columbus, New Mexico, during the Pershing Punitive Expedition into Mexico, in search of the Mexican bandit/revolutionary, Pancho Villa, who had attacked Columbus earlier that year. My Grandfather Robert L. Ingraham was a member of the New York State National Guard, which had been federalized and sent to the Mexico-Texas border in support of Pershing's expedition.

Bob

P.S. I rather doubt that I will ever again buy such an expensive cover (or stamp). But who knows...

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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
19 Sep 2014
08:39:10pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Bob,

That cover is worth every penny! As for telling your wife about it someday, I'm reminded of the story about Jack Benny's nightmare: that, after he died, his wife would sell his violin for what he told her he paid for it.

Image Not Found

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19 Sep 2014
08:53:45pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Regarding all the comments about buying on eBay, please allow me to share some of the comments I make on our own website which lists our weekly eBay auctions:

"{In response to hypothetical questions about buying from us through eBay}
"I don't like dealing with eBay".
When you are buying from us on eBay, you are not "dealing with eBay". That's just the place where your bids are recorded. At the end of the auction (if you are the high bidder), you will be dealing directly with us. You will get the same friendly emails notifying you of your win that you get from your Cover Box orders. We'll combine any other purchases for shipping and do whatever else we can to make adding to your collection easy -- whether it's from our weekly eBay auctions, or from our fixed price listings. "



eBay is a venue. If you know who you are dealing with, either from dealing outside eBay, or because you tested them with a small purchase and got to know them (which hundreds of new customers have done with us), you are dealing with that person, regardless of whether it is through eBay, at the local bourse, or through their retail website.

I believe it is a serious mistake to treat eBay as a seller, rather than as a venue where thousands of sellers congregate. I mean, would you walk into a giant flea market and take the word of every seller there about what they were selling, or buy things for big dollar amounts (whatever that amount is to you) that you didn't truly understand on your own? Not likely.

And Bob, thank you for the lovely compliment.

Roy
eBay rlingen / current feedback rating 37,183

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19 Sep 2014
09:02:01pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

When it comes to stamps on ebay - I've never had troubles. In fact, I've had some sellers bend over backwards for me. When I was building my MNH DDR collection, I found two great sellers - bought year sets. Then I was able to ask them about other year sets. I had one seller that pulled a whole group of BIN auctions offline and I ended up getting them at about 40% discount of what he had requested for BIN. From there he was also able to find me specialties - imperfs, watermark changes, etc that are not found in most general DDR collections. He also gave me the name of another fella who could help me get some things he couldn't. The other fella I dealt with for DDR, because I want mine MNH (my cto's are separate), I emailed him about a few that had creases and asked if I could return them for replacement. They were slight creases that the average collector wouldn't even really notice, but I did. He told me to keep them, sell them or trade them and he sent me replacements no charge. For both of these fellows as well as the other two I dealt with for West Germany and Berlin, if I discovered any missing stamp in the lot, they all happily sent it with no questions. The one fella told me to go through the year lots that I had (which I bought over several months) and tally any that were missing or creased and just send him the list and he'd replace them. Another fella asked me to return them for replacement. I received his replacement the day after I posted his back which was two days after I contacted him (Canada to Germany!).

If I have questions about stamps, I always contact the seller. If I find the seller to be arrogant, I just stop looking at their material. I tend to buy my German State materials in lots. Even though I get duplicates, it all evens out because there will be some that are spacefillers, other that are perfect, others with various cancels. So I'm a happy camper. And I always find that with only a few exceptions, when the sellers see what I am buying, they significantly reduce the "combined postage". I've even had some sent registered post and I paid like $5 for postage which is basically free postage. Others have their postal fees listed and when they see that I'm buying several lots, they'll just send them postage free.

It's rare for me to only buy one stamp or several single stamps from a seller, but I've never been disappointed.

My pocketbook is small, but I keep my eyes out for the good deals and I've managed to build a collection that if bought in small sections would require deep pockets. I like to make the seller know I truly appreciate their meeting me halfway on things. I recently bought a beautiful gem as some of you know. I happened to have won two of his other auctions and I noticed that almost all his BINs also had OBO, except for THAT particular stamp. So I messaged him and mentioned that and asked him if he would take an OBO, would he accept X. He got back to me and said he couldn't take anything less than X which was about $25 more than my offer, so I said "you've got yourself a deal." He sent everything registered post no cost.

I do agree, if you're new to buying - why bother going for the high end stuff? Enjoy your collection. I indulge once in a while and I know how to make a good deal with someone and I've been very pleased with pretty much every transaction, I always come out on the high end of things and I always double check by message if the person accepts returns (even when they specifically note on their page that there are no returns) - if I'm paying X for something and I get it and find it has a thin that was not mentioned, you didn't sell me what you advertised. Thus far - I've had no problems (as mentioned above re: the creases).

The ONLY place I've ever been burned was at a bourse. Go figure!

Kelly

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19 Sep 2014
09:10:52pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Roy -

My first deal with you and Debbie was when you were still doing the stamp lots. I bought a worldwide boxlot from you separated into *really* old envelopes. The message from Debbie said "I have no idea what's in here, have fun!" I found a few nice little surprises in that lot. Shortly after that you went solely to covers, so that was quite a long time ago but boy I was in heaven when I got that lot Happy Some have gone on to other homes and some hold some pretty places in my collection.

Thanks Big Grin

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
20 Sep 2014
09:40:27am

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I have really enjoyed the aside, but back to the auction, it closed for $100. The interesting thing is to look at the bid history. Two bids for exactly $100 and a retracted bid for $100! It sure looks like they couldn't get anyone to nibble on that fake. Looks like shill bidding to me.

Lars

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StanC

20 Sep 2014
09:47:08am

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

The auction actually closed before it's scheduled time. So I am glad that I asked the question, and thank SOR for helping learn a little more about collecting. Thanks again.

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michael78651

20 Sep 2014
09:28:07pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Speculation:

Now, if the buyer thinks that the seller didn't know the rarity of the item (the seller is in Spain), the buyer will be all giddy when the fake stamp is received, and will contact an auction house to sell it for riches beyond imagination...until the buyer gets educated.

If the seller is out to dupe the buyer (obviously), then the buyer can return the favor by receiving the fake stamp and reporting to eBay that the item received is not as described. eBay will refund the money to the buyer.

If the buyer just doesn't know, then the buyer will put the stamp in the collection, and it will sit there until...

Hopefully, however, some people not involved in the transaction learned a lesson from this example of greed in the philatelic marketplace.

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
20 Sep 2014
10:44:35pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Michael,

I think your premise is based on the unwarranted assumption that there actually were any bona fide bidders. If you look at the bid details for that auction, they are all consistent with shill bidders, so maybe they were no actual bidders and the seller gained nothing. I can only hope so!

Lars

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michael78651

20 Sep 2014
11:44:42pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

It was just speculation.

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carlberky

14 Dec 2014
11:43:09am

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

Thanks, everyone, for a very interesting and entertaining thread !

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I still have more questions than answers
14 Dec 2014
01:01:40pm

re: eBay Auction on Inverted Jenny

I have purchased on Ebay thousands of times. While I agree there are crooks out there the vast majority of sellers are not. I have no problem buying on Ebay. I have had sellers make honest mistakes on items that I could not detect until I was able to check a watermark or something like that. They always offered a refund. This seller does not represent the average honest seller on Ebay.

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