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General Philatelic/Identify This? : Japanese Miner Stamp

 

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adam31415926
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30 Aug 2015
11:47:25pm
I came across this imperforate variety of a Japanese miner stamp (Scott #430). I was wondering if this might be cut from a stamped envelope? I did find one picture of a stamped envelope that matched this.

Any help is very appreciated.

Adam

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Philatarium
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APS #187980

31 Aug 2015
02:32:04pm
re: Japanese Miner Stamp

You're right -- there is an 8-sen yen envelope, issued in 1949. In the Sakura and the Japan Specialized, it's catalogued as SE23. (Unfortunately, it's not priced as a cut single -- only as an entire.)

Having said that, there's something a little funny about this, and it makes me wonder if it's a forgery. I think, but am not sure, that there were some forgeries of the Showa definitives.

One of the reasons I think it could be a forgery is that the print quality is really awful. Now, I know the stamps of this era were poorly printed, during the post-war recovery era, but this one is really bad.

The other thing that's odd is that the cancel doesn't continue to the bottom of the stamp, and that can be a characteristic of a forged cancel, although I've mostly seen it for earlier forgeries. But I really don't know this area that well, so take it all with several grains of salt.

The other possible explanation is that the surface of the envelope was uneven. Perhaps there was something thicker at the top of the envelope that allowed for a better strike, and that thicker portion (perhaps a folded letter) stopped coincident with the bottom of the print design of that stamp.

I wish I could tell you more, but that's about all I've got.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

31 Aug 2015
02:33:53pm

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re: Japanese Miner Stamp

the interrupted cancel caught my eye, too, but that then got me thinking postal stationary, believing the interruption might have been caused by a stamp uprating the card, and therby obsuring the cancelling device.

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adam31415926
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31 Aug 2015
03:03:43pm
re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Thanks very much for the help. I wondered about the cancel too. I think your idea about what went wrong with the cancel has a lot of merit.

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Philatarium
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APS #187980

31 Aug 2015
04:43:47pm
re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Here's a pic of the unused envelope (found on the internet, but from a knowledgeable seller I know), and it does look poorly done and pretty consistent with the used example in the original post, so that may be the explanation:

Image Not Found

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TuskenRaider
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31 Aug 2015
05:13:49pm
re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Hi Adam;

Philatarium said:

"You're right -- there is an 8-sen envelope, issued in 1949. In the Sakura and the Japan
Specialized, it's catalogued as SE23. (Unfortunately, it's not priced as a cut single -- only
as an entire.)"



Sorry Philatarium, but I think it is a mistake to point this out in a negative way. Much better to
say it is priced as an entire. You may be giving beginner collectors the impression that they
must collect material as dictated by some catalog publisher.

Many collectors, that have very large world-wide accumulations may not wish to mount all those
entires. I never mount those. I have sold many cut squares of unused postcards, on here to
very knowledgeable and advanced collectors.

So Adam, you collect 'em any way you like, and don't pay any attention to the rules of others.

Just thinkin'....
TuskenRaider
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adam31415926
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31 Aug 2015
05:29:23pm
re: Japanese Miner Stamp

This was in a page from a stock book I purchased as a lot along with a few other stock books. I'm just going through them cataloging them and happened across this one oddity. I sort of doubt many collect this kind of stamp, but you never know. Thanks again for the insights everyone!

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Philatarium
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APS #187980

31 Aug 2015
06:24:24pm
re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Tusken -- I expressed it that way because that's what he has, and I couldn't provide a value for it, so my "sorry" reflected that I couldn't provide that additional information. I would never have foreseen anyone reading into it the subtext that you saw (and not feeling particularly happy about being jumped on).

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Zipper
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31 Aug 2015
07:18:31pm
re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Philatarium,

Those of us who know you know that you're an expert on Japanese stamps, and a sweetheart. Just ignore those who are not your equal.

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khj
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31 Aug 2015
07:37:20pm
re: Japanese Miner Stamp

"I would never have foreseen anyone reading into it the subtext that you saw (and not feeling particularly happy about being jumped on)."


That's because you are not that type of person. And you should be feeling pretty happy that you are not that type of person. The world needs more people who give others the benefit of any doubt. I know I'm appreciative of ALL your posts. Thumbs Up

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philb
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31 Aug 2015
08:21:33pm

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re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Kim. My father used to say"give the other person the benefit of the doubt!" finally at an advanced age i can grasp the meaning of his words !Happy

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Guthrum
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01 Sep 2015
06:23:54am
re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Well, I am neither an expert on Japanese stamps nor, so far as I can gather, a sweetheart, but I do feel that by rushing so publicly to the aid of someone who has been 'jumped on' people run the risk of being seen as ganging up on the jumper. It's possible that Ken misinterpreted the word unfortunately, seeing it as an endorsement of a deterministic view of collecting which he clearly opposes. Then again, it can be read as unfortunately from the point of view of Dave's effort to assist Adam, as I guess it was meant to be.

Although I doubt the Tusken Raider needs me or anyone else to defend him, I think perhaps a PM of support for the injured party would have been the better way to go.

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

01 Sep 2015
08:13:12am
re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Everybody step back and take a deep breath, Guthrum is right, let's give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Neither Ken nor Dave are mean spirited folk, and if Ken mis-read Dave's post and responded inappropriately, he did so in a perceived effort at coming to the aid of another member. Nor would Dave ever preach ill or sarcastically toward another, and if Ken were better acquainted with him, he would have re-read Dave's post and realized the intent was aimed at helping in a positive way, and nothing negative was implied.

So let's get back to the issue at hand: that intriguing Japanese stamp.

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Author/Postings
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adam31415926

30 Aug 2015
11:47:25pm

I came across this imperforate variety of a Japanese miner stamp (Scott #430). I was wondering if this might be cut from a stamped envelope? I did find one picture of a stamped envelope that matched this.

Any help is very appreciated.

Adam

Image Not Found

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this post

www.ebid.net/us/stor ...
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Philatarium

APS #187980
31 Aug 2015
02:32:04pm

re: Japanese Miner Stamp

You're right -- there is an 8-sen yen envelope, issued in 1949. In the Sakura and the Japan Specialized, it's catalogued as SE23. (Unfortunately, it's not priced as a cut single -- only as an entire.)

Having said that, there's something a little funny about this, and it makes me wonder if it's a forgery. I think, but am not sure, that there were some forgeries of the Showa definitives.

One of the reasons I think it could be a forgery is that the print quality is really awful. Now, I know the stamps of this era were poorly printed, during the post-war recovery era, but this one is really bad.

The other thing that's odd is that the cancel doesn't continue to the bottom of the stamp, and that can be a characteristic of a forged cancel, although I've mostly seen it for earlier forgeries. But I really don't know this area that well, so take it all with several grains of salt.

The other possible explanation is that the surface of the envelope was uneven. Perhaps there was something thicker at the top of the envelope that allowed for a better strike, and that thicker portion (perhaps a folded letter) stopped coincident with the bottom of the print design of that stamp.

I wish I could tell you more, but that's about all I've got.

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
31 Aug 2015
02:33:53pm

Auctions

re: Japanese Miner Stamp

the interrupted cancel caught my eye, too, but that then got me thinking postal stationary, believing the interruption might have been caused by a stamp uprating the card, and therby obsuring the cancelling device.

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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adam31415926

31 Aug 2015
03:03:43pm

re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Thanks very much for the help. I wondered about the cancel too. I think your idea about what went wrong with the cancel has a lot of merit.

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www.ebid.net/us/stor ...
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Philatarium

APS #187980
31 Aug 2015
04:43:47pm

re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Here's a pic of the unused envelope (found on the internet, but from a knowledgeable seller I know), and it does look poorly done and pretty consistent with the used example in the original post, so that may be the explanation:

Image Not Found

Like 
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likes this post.
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"You gotta put down the duckie if you wanna play the saxophone. (Hoots the Owl -- Sesame Street)"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
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TuskenRaider

31 Aug 2015
05:13:49pm

re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Hi Adam;

Philatarium said:

"You're right -- there is an 8-sen envelope, issued in 1949. In the Sakura and the Japan
Specialized, it's catalogued as SE23. (Unfortunately, it's not priced as a cut single -- only
as an entire.)"



Sorry Philatarium, but I think it is a mistake to point this out in a negative way. Much better to
say it is priced as an entire. You may be giving beginner collectors the impression that they
must collect material as dictated by some catalog publisher.

Many collectors, that have very large world-wide accumulations may not wish to mount all those
entires. I never mount those. I have sold many cut squares of unused postcards, on here to
very knowledgeable and advanced collectors.

So Adam, you collect 'em any way you like, and don't pay any attention to the rules of others.

Just thinkin'....
TuskenRaider
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www.webstore.com/sto ...
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adam31415926

31 Aug 2015
05:29:23pm

re: Japanese Miner Stamp

This was in a page from a stock book I purchased as a lot along with a few other stock books. I'm just going through them cataloging them and happened across this one oddity. I sort of doubt many collect this kind of stamp, but you never know. Thanks again for the insights everyone!

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

www.ebid.net/us/stor ...
Members Picture
Philatarium

APS #187980
31 Aug 2015
06:24:24pm

re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Tusken -- I expressed it that way because that's what he has, and I couldn't provide a value for it, so my "sorry" reflected that I couldn't provide that additional information. I would never have foreseen anyone reading into it the subtext that you saw (and not feeling particularly happy about being jumped on).

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"You gotta put down the duckie if you wanna play the saxophone. (Hoots the Owl -- Sesame Street)"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...

Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.
31 Aug 2015
07:18:31pm

re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Philatarium,

Those of us who know you know that you're an expert on Japanese stamps, and a sweetheart. Just ignore those who are not your equal.

Like 
5 Members
like this post.
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Members Picture
khj

31 Aug 2015
07:37:20pm

re: Japanese Miner Stamp

"I would never have foreseen anyone reading into it the subtext that you saw (and not feeling particularly happy about being jumped on)."


That's because you are not that type of person. And you should be feeling pretty happy that you are not that type of person. The world needs more people who give others the benefit of any doubt. I know I'm appreciative of ALL your posts. Thumbs Up

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like this post.
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philb

31 Aug 2015
08:21:33pm

Auctions

re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Kim. My father used to say"give the other person the benefit of the doubt!" finally at an advanced age i can grasp the meaning of his words !Happy

Like
Login to Like
this post

"If a man would be anything, he must be himself."
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Guthrum

01 Sep 2015
06:23:54am

re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Well, I am neither an expert on Japanese stamps nor, so far as I can gather, a sweetheart, but I do feel that by rushing so publicly to the aid of someone who has been 'jumped on' people run the risk of being seen as ganging up on the jumper. It's possible that Ken misinterpreted the word unfortunately, seeing it as an endorsement of a deterministic view of collecting which he clearly opposes. Then again, it can be read as unfortunately from the point of view of Dave's effort to assist Adam, as I guess it was meant to be.

Although I doubt the Tusken Raider needs me or anyone else to defend him, I think perhaps a PM of support for the injured party would have been the better way to go.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
01 Sep 2015
08:13:12am

re: Japanese Miner Stamp

Everybody step back and take a deep breath, Guthrum is right, let's give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Neither Ken nor Dave are mean spirited folk, and if Ken mis-read Dave's post and responded inappropriately, he did so in a perceived effort at coming to the aid of another member. Nor would Dave ever preach ill or sarcastically toward another, and if Ken were better acquainted with him, he would have re-read Dave's post and realized the intent was aimed at helping in a positive way, and nothing negative was implied.

So let's get back to the issue at hand: that intriguing Japanese stamp.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.ne ...
        

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