Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
One downside to buying used albums is dealing with the former owners' placement of stamps in empty space or in the margins. At first I thought no big deal, I'll just cover them with stamps. But I've since adopted the blank page as my way to places stamps I want to keep that do not have spaces. That leaves a lot of unsightly hinge remnants, as seen in this pic:
Here's an example blank page where I put stamps that have: no spot in the album, a color variation, an overprint, an interesting cancellation, etc. Almost always with out much regard to arrangement other than to keep them neatly aligned.
In addition, there are many of the other usual problems with used albums: yellowing pages, edge wear, possible missing pages, acid paper, thin paper, etc. All in all, these problems are minor and I really enjoy the Scott Internationals.
So, why do I need advice? I'm looking to see if anyone has transitioned from the older Scott Internationals to the newer versions that are are printed on thicker acid-free pages. In your opinion, was it worth the cost (time and money)?
There are also the "Big Brown" reprints. As I understand it, that would replace International Vol I with a very comprehensive 6-volume set of one-sided pages... at a price tag of about $1000! And I would still need to deal with the other volumes.
There is always the option of printing my own pages, but for this part of my collection I've opted against that. At least for now.
Any decision is probably a few years away, as I am still working full time. And that brings up another question... For retirees, did your collecting interests change after retirement? In particular, did you gain additional patience with stamp identification (perfs, watermarks, etc.)? My enjoyment now is in the simplicity of finding stamps and placing them in the album, and the Scott International is great for that. Not much demand for watermarking or perf gauging. What little of that detailed work I do seems like, well, "work," and is not as relaxing. But a move to the more sophisticated "Big Brown" reprints, would require a lot more detective work on my part, as would a move to Scott Specialized albums.
Appreciate any input, even if only seems tangentially related.
-Steve
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Myself, i would not look forward to moving the stamps in my 9 scott internationals to other albums...ambition is made of sterner stuff ! Like yourself i picked up used Big Blue international albums..i have to deal with how the original owner mounted stamps..but on the other hand i picked up albums for $15.00 to $40.00 apiece and some had quite a few lower value stamps already mounted.
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Because of the abridgement of the Scott International (Junior) Album, that's what today's Scott Internationals are, I got Scott Specialty pages to cover 1840 to 1950, and Steiner pages for Specialty pages not available. I do have many countries with Specialty pages that run up into the 1990s and to date. However, most countries from 1960 onward are a mix of Scott International and Steiner pages.
The "Brown" reprints are the actual original Scott International albums.
I personally would not buy the new Scott Internationals, especially Part 1 with all its broken down parts that are just as abridged as what you have now, but the cost is ridiculous. If I were to buy WW pages for the first 100 years, I would buy the Brown, or else I'd print out Steiner pages.
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"I would buy the Brown, or else I'd print out Steiner pages."
I second Michael's opinion, but would go one step further. Forget buying the pages and print using Steiner. You will have a consistent look, full (not abbreviated) coverage, the ability to add customized pages, the selection of the binder and paper that you want, and all very economically. If you do not go to heavy card paper, consider housing your pages in Avery heavy duty sheet protectors (really inexpensive at Costco...which is where I also buy my 3 hole D-ring binders).
Then I would move my existing collection into these pages and albums and donate the (now empty) original albums to someone else who is starting..or house my duplicates in them.
rrr...
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The Brown album pages are the former Scott International pages that became the original Scott Specialty pages. These pages, for many countries, also contain spaces for minor varieties and postal stationary (mostly cut squares). Today's Scott Specialty pages have been edited downward at least once or twice since.
I just wanted to add that to clarify that these are not re-printings of any current Scott International or Specialty pages available on the market today.
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Thanks for all of the comments.
Michael, the Scott's Brown pages became the "Vintage Specialty" pages, correct? These are the ones that are available for $879.51 from Subway, who goes to great length to disguise their content:
http://www.subwaystamp.com/SET-BOOK-1-BOOK-6-PAGES/productinfo/ZVRW04P1-6/
Those prices are for the pages that fit in the Big Blue binders. The prices for pages that fit other binders are $170 more (why?) at $1,048.00. Doesn't matter whether it's $879 or $1,048, that's a chunk of coin I'm not ready to part with!
I'll hold off any decisions for a while and continue to replace my worst pages one at a time from the various copies I've acquired. And who knows, I might warm up to rrr's strong second to the idea of printing out pages. 
-Steve
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"So, why do I need advice? I'm looking to see if anyone has transitioned from the older Scott Internationals to the newer versions that are are printed on thicker acid-free pages. In your opinion, was it worth the cost (time and money)?
"
Short answer is YES!
Steve- you are asking really good questions, and I think much of the advice already given is relevant. I myself use Steiner for 1840-1940 (44 binders,6000 pages!), but have a fondness for the blue Scott Internationals.
I'll add my 2c.
If you decide to go with the blue Scott Internationals....
(I will just discuss Part I 1840-1940 here.)
All of Scott International Part I 1840-1940 (Big Blue) editions from 1969 to the present are basically the same coverage wise, although sections have been moved around in the later editions to make it easier to integrate or collate with Part II (1840-49+), Part III etc. I notice you are bothered by hinge stains that will still be there on the page even if you fill the stamp spaces. I am likewise.
And you say, at this point, you don't mind having to worry about watermarks, different perfs etc.
You might very well be happiest with obtaining new thick paper pages from Amos Advantage for Part I (Now divided into IA1,IA2,IB1,IB2).
Nice presentation on clean thick pages, and 35,000 spaces to fill for the years 1840-1940.- a real challenge! Most stamp choices for spaces are inexpensive. No watermarking required. Little space requirement compared to the Steiner. Did I mention clean and fresh?
But there are plenty of inexpensive stamps (10,000 - 15,000+) that do not have a space in Big Blue. Putting the extra stamps you collect that have no spaces on supplementary pages is perfectly acceptable. But a person does best with Big Blue if he or she collects to the album- that is, find stamps that have spaces in Big Blue.
To that end, I have been publishing a checklist on my blogsite (address below) listing the stamp possibilities for the spaces in Big Blue .
Good luck in whatever choice you make!
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Just to understand about pricing, and why I suggested if you want complete coverage to go with the Brown instead of the Blue International is that the four parts of the Blue International have a list price of $150.00 per part. That means $600.00 to get all four parts. Even Amos Advantage lists at $120.00 or $480.00 for all four parts.
For $879.00 for the Brown you get complete coverage of all the countries, rather than the badly abridged Blue International pages. The Browns are printed on one side on thicker paper, while the Internationals are printed on both sides and on thinner paper.
Both sets come in parts, so you do not have to buy the entire set at one time. Get one or more at a time as you can afford them.
That is the point I was making. To me, it would be worth the extra money to get the complete coverage. However, the Steiner pages remains a valid option as well, and you will get about the same coverage as the Browns. Remember that you'll also have to get binders whichever set you choose, including the Steiner pages.
Here is a link that takes you to their catalog and the Browns. It shows the year break out for each part. I don't know what you mean that they disguise the content. It's every country, as applicable, for the year periods of each part.
http://www.subwaystamp.com/2014stamp/2014stamp.swf#p=168
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For me, the Steiner pages have been a great option. I can print what I need, as I need it. I haven't found any gaps, but if there were any, I could easily custom build pages to fill the void.
The problem I anticipated with the Scott's albums, is that by the time I could fill all the spaces, the album would be outdated and I'd be right back to square one. Supplementing, or looking for new albums again.
WB
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Rather than "outdated", do you mean that the Scott albums would go "out of production"? That was/is a constant problem with Scott, and one reason why I stopped buying the Specialty albums and now supplement with the International and fill in the gaps of missing items (souvenir sheets, large blocks, booklets and several countries not supplied in the Internationals) with the Steiner pages.
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"I don't know what you mean that they disguise the content."
Michael, by that I meant that for someone who doesn't really know what they are looking at, it would be very had to make a $1000 buying decision. I would challenge any newcomer to make sense of the catalog pages (Subway or other). It is only through StamoRama, Jim's excellent BigBlue blog, Antonius Ra's terrific pages, and discussions in stamp shops and at stamp shows that I have come to a basic understanding of what's in the various albums.
Stamp shops rarely have albums for sale (understandably), so it is hard to hold something in my hands and gain an appreciation for what's included and what's not. For example, one basic question I still have: Are Big Brown and the Specialty albums basically the same for the years that they cover? That is, do they both include all basic Scott numbered issues in the catalogs, including back of book?
When I decided to buy the used Big Blues a couple years back, it took quite a bit of searching just to find basic details. After I received my albums, I learned about the thin paper used in the early volumes, the acidic content of the paper, and the awkward nature of the page arrangement. All in good enjoyment of the hobby of course, and I don't regret the decision!
And Phil, I have thought about the task of moving thousands of stamps into new albums...
While I enjoy filling spaces, I would not want to take on a task that might diminish that delight. Oh, what joyous decisions lie ahead... 
-Steve
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"Are Big Brown and the Specialty albums basically the same for the years that they cover? That is, do they both include all basic Scott numbered issues in the catalogs, including back of book?"
Yes. The old Scott International pages, which are what the Browns are, became the Scott Specialty Albums. Scott them issued the International Junior, which became the Blue. Subway used to send out a sample page on request. I don't know if they still do it.
This is a revised Scott Specialty page where they removed the country information from the top of the page, since this is page 1 for Bulgaria. Other than that, this is about what a Brown page will look like. Note the old wood block images with the cut line, and no catalog numbers. There is no toning on the page. This happened as the page was larger than the scanner cover so some light escaped.
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Here's what a full page of the older type looks like:
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The Subway "Vintage Reproduction Pages", which appear to be scans of the old bound Scott Brown Album pages, do have spaces for all of the issued stamps including the "back-of-the-book" issues. They do not have spaces for the issues with minor numbers such as paper varieties, minor color variations, etc., so if you have any of those in your possession and wish to mount them, you will need to do so on separate pages of your own design.
I found several things frustrating with the Subway Vintage pages. One was that they reproduced the pages exactly as they were found in each of the six original Brown Albums. Just today I was moving some Monaco stamps from Vintage pages to Steiner's pages that I have printed off for myself. The second series of Monaco stamps as they are listed in Scott are spread over quite a few years (1891-1921). Since each Brown album only covered a certain time frame (Volume 1 covers 1840-1900, Volume 2 covers 1901-1920, etc.), this one series of stamps that Scott has grouped together will be found on three separate pages in three of the different Brown albums. If you combine the Subway Vintage pages into one massive set of pages where all the pages for each stamp issuing entity are grouped together, this one set of stamps will be spread piece-meal across three non-sequential pages.
A second issue was that if a stamp issuing entity issued only a very limited number of a certain type of stamp, you may get only one or two stamps presented on a page. Again, if you combine all the pages for one country from all six Subway Vintage album page sections, you may end up one semi-postal stamp on one page, then the following page will have one semi-postal stamp, followed by a page with maybe two semi-postal stamps. A lot of paper with not much to show for it.
I also never liked the way the stamps are all scrunched together for each series of stamps. The appearance to me just looks better when each stamp is separated from all the other stamps with a white space around the frame where the stamp is mounted within.
Since the Subway Vintage pages appear to be copies of the Scott Brown Album pages made by scanning in the Brown Album pages and then reproducing these scans on pages with the outside frame already printed on, the outside page frame is very sharp and clear while everything printed inside the page frame looks somewhat poorly printed, with some areas clearer and other areas with a lighter printing that almost looks somewhat faded.
Lastly, when I purchased my set of Subway Vintage pages many years ago (right after they were issued), they were only available in the two-post punch that is used in the International Album binders. After working with my new albums for a short time, the pages at each end of the album were already starting tear where they were punched. So I opened each binder when I was mounting stamps so that each page I was working on could be removed and worked on outside of the binder. That ended up being a big hassle. If you do decide to go the with Subway Vintage Pages, go with the three-hole punch. They may cost more, but the pages will probably last much longer around the punch holes and can be placed in any three-ring binder and not just in the much more expensive two-post binders used to house Scott's International Album pages. The margins on the left-hand side of the page with the two-post punching are very narrow; it appears to be much wider on the pages with the three-hole punching meaning that the pages themselves are a bit wider.
After trying many different album makers over the years (Lighthouse, Scott Internationals, Subway Vintage Reproduction Pages), I was always left disappointed. Lighthouse didn't make albums for all the different stamp issuing countries and territories of the world, but the ones that they do have are just superb (and very expensive). The Scott International album sections have the two-sided printing which may save on pages but then results in stamps catching on each other unless interleaving is used. And the 1840-1940 sections did not have spaces for many stamps. The pages not laying flat when the album is opened is also a problem when mounting stamps although it is not a problem when looking through the album. The Subway Vintage Reproduction Page issues I had are mentioned above.
About 2011 I finally discovered Palo Albums. After purchasing one album from Palo (the first set of Austria pages), I was sold on their quality and layout. I am now mounting all of the countries and territories where I specialize in Palo Albums. The only complaint that I have about Palo's pages is that I wish I had an ability to order the album pages without the stamp's picture reproduction in each and every mounting space. I get the pages with the stamp pictures printed in black-and-white rather than in color so that I can more easily see which stamps I don't possess; with the color pictures it is hard to tell. Also, with Palo, you can converse with the guy that started and runs the company and get special items done for you. They will print unique pages for items that are not on the standard pages, but for a hefty price as can be expected. For me he special ordered a very large size of the Davo hingeless mounts that he did not carry. It is just satisfying when a business owner asks if he can do something for you rather than just give you the "Sorry, don't have that."
For all the other areas of the world that are not covered by my Palo Albums, I use Bill Steiner's pages. I believe for $40 you can get a CD from Mr. Steiner that contains all of the pages that he has available or for the same $40 you can have access to all of his page files online. Like Palo Albums, he has pages for all stamp issuing entities the world over and the pages have spaces for all stamps, back-of-the-book included. You can just print those pages where you have stamps to mount potentially saving a huge amount of storage space. As your collection grows, just print off pages as you need them. All you need is a printer and the right type of paper.
Between Palo Albums and Stamp Albums Web (Steiner's website), I have everything that I could possibly want in regards to stamp album pages. And I do collect worldwide but also specialize with several countries.
And that issue with the Monaco stamp set that was spread over three non-sequential pages with the Subway Vintage Reproduction Pages? With both the Steiner pages and the Palo Album pages that set will all be grouped together on one page just like it is shown in the Scott Catalogue.
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The older Scott Specialty pages likewise do not have the longer sets grouped together, but like the Brown Vintage pages are grouped by year of issue.
A trick to avoid tearing the pages from the posts is to use the Scott filler strips to make sure that the pages are snug in the binder so that the pages don't have room to slide along the posts when turning the pages. Once I started using them, I no longer had pages ripping off the posts. Scott also has page reinforcement strips that you can use to repair the torn post holes on a page.
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Michael,
You posted the link to the Subway catalog above. Maybe you or someone else could explain the difference between the items on the top of pg 168 and those at the top of 169.
At the top of page 168, I see "Big Brown International" and prices for Books 1-6, pages only.
At the top of page 169, I see "Vintage Reproductions" and again prices for Books 1-6, but slightly cheaper.
What's the difference. This section of the catalog is very confusing. I wonder if they ever make any sales? Also confusing, the prices in this PDF do not jibe with the web-site prices.
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"The older Scott Specialty pages likewise do not have the longer sets grouped together, but like the Brown Vintage pages are grouped by year of issue."
That this is a plus for Steiner (and Palo, which has a license to use the Steiner layout for many of its pages), as the Steiner layout usually has the issue set grouped together, irrespective of the specific stamp issue date within a set. This makes it also easy to follow using the modern Scott catalogue.
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We few,we madmen..we WORLDWIDE collectors ! Michael i feel the pain of the abridging between years with the big blue boys...and when on a country like say Brazil when they make a page 1963-64 how many stamps are they leaving out ? A lot. Today i was putting the last pages of my Internationals which had broke loose from the posts into plastic sleeves..it not a perfect answer...but it keeps me from losing any pages.
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Phil, why don't you use page reinforcements? The cheap, round ones work great for the round punched paper.
Lewis, the Big Brown International are the reprints that are on the paper size of the Scott Specialty albums. The Vintage Reproductions are reprints that on the paper size of the Scott International albums. The larger-sized paper costs a little more to buy so the higher cost would be my guess.
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Michael, Good advice..i think the lifesavers i had were old...i will try a fresh pack..at times i have found it difficult to repair the damage to the page with the small page reinforcers.
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Richard, thank you very much for that detailed explanation. 
I discovered many of those things after buying my Big Blues. Again, no regrets. And again, I am astonished at the lack of basic information out there for these fairly substantial purchases. Knowing that the Big Brown "Vintage" pages suffer from some of the same shortcomings as the Internationals makes them look less attractive. But, no decisions just yet!
Also had the same question as Lewis about the two varieties of Big Browns in the catalogs. Finally figured out that they had different holes punched in them, but I didn't know that the Specialized format is a different size than the International format. But thanks to Michael, now I know!
I use hole reinforcements all the time. The cheap ones from Dollar General I think are $1 for a pack of several hundred. In addition to being cheap, they thicken the page at the binding so that it becomes closer to the thickness of the page with stamps hinged on both sides. That keeps the binding tight and helps prevent the unsightly "album bulge" that comes with a healthy collection.
"We few,we madmen..we WORLDWIDE collectors!"
Phil, here's the rest of the quote:
We few, we happy few, we worldwide collectors;
For he to-day that collects his stamps with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his collection;
And collectors of one land now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not worldly,
And hold their country albums cheap whiles any speaks
That collected with us this intact and unbroken grand ole oerth!
-Steve
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Me the red headed step child, Minkus Master Global to 1960 works for my WW collection. I prefer the grouping of all issues versus the Scott BOB. The heavy stamp load and grouping on each page does not bother me, however I am a slave to the Scott Nationals for my US collection.
5 years ago I would have never thought I would have any interest in WW, but a chance encounter with a couple of monster Minkus albums and a big-o-pile of pre 1960 WW stamps got me hooked.
Nice used albums are hard to come by,that do not have catalouge values written in with ink, hinge remnants in the margins, mounts that have torn the pages, etc...
I do have a set of Minkus Catalogues,almost a must with Minkus albums.
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Thanks Steve ! Fred i came too late to the table with the Supreme Master Global albums, in my area the Scott internationals were much more available than the Minkus..plus the scott catalogs were compatible..i purchased a couple of Minkus Master globals as collection remainders and was impressed with them !
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Back in the day it was really nice buying Part 1 of the International (1840-1940). I bought mine around 1970. It was all contained in one part and the binder was included too. Oh yeah, the price? A whopping $19.98. Today's price with one binder is almost $700.
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No wonder people use the Steiner pages...better to spend on the stamps than the albums ! When the dealer buys a collection he gets the albums thrown in.
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Thanks Michael. I never thought the difference in price was paper size.
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I am using the "Big Brown International" pages from Subway. Yes, the intent of Scott was to provide a space for every postage stamp issues, but there have been lots of changes (deletions and additions) since these albums were issues. I had dozens of stamps for which there were no spaces. I am making my own pages to update the album.
Moderator's Note: Some text was deleted due to copyright infringement and lack of rights to distribute such material.
Added by original poster: there is no copyright infringement. I applied to Amos Media (Scott) for permission to use Scott catalog numbers. They declined. But they pointed out that (1) I could use their numbers on pages printed solely for my personal use and (2) I could distribute the pages to others if I did NOT include Scott numbers (they were sent sample pages). The pages I am offering lack Scott numbers.
There is an article on my project in the first quarter 2019 issue of Philatelic Literature Review. You can also email me (philpritchard@mindspring.com) and I will send you an introductory document and a list of the available pages (PDF files). I have made about 1440 pages at present, with about 900 left to go (total for all 6 of the Subway Stamp Shop volumes) - there area LOT of missing stamps in what may have been (back before 1940) a comprehensive worldwide album. I expect to finish early next year. I provide packages of about 50 PDF pages per email, along with information on how to get them printed.
This project was completed on 20 November 2020. There are approximately 2433 pages. I am starting work on an update based on the 2021 Classic Specialized catalog, just out.
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I collect world wide thru 1999 for the most part. I went over to Steiner pages about 8 years ago. I first had an online subscription, which expired before I realized I hadn't downloaded all pages that I needed. Then went and bought the CD version. For some countries, I initially printed only thru mid 70's. Now If I need further pages, I just print the page needed instead of an entire years worth of pages.
I use acid-free cover stock for the pages and print with a HP laser-jet all in one. If a page gets damaged in some way - simple task to just print a new page.
Checkout eBayer theclassicarchives. They have a stamp collecting CD with a bunch of reference books, and several variations of album pages. Steiner's pages were also on the CD that I purchased back in 2016. See that CD is still available - 10 bucks with S&H.
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The seller may not have a license to distribute Steiner pages.
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To my knowledge, their newer philatelic CDs do not have Steiner pages on them. I believe you are correct about the licensing matter.
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I have finished my update pages for the Brown Internationals. A preliminary count is 2433 pages (5082 is the original total for the six volumes of the Browns). I am now working on updates for the 2021 Classic Specialized catalog (Central Albania, French Morocco locals, etc.).
Those who use the Steiner pages: they don't cover EVERYTHING (remarks apply only to issues up to 1940). For example, most fiscal-postal (AR) issues, most semi-official airmails (CL), post office labels (OX - Canada), insured letter (G - Colombia and states), parcel post registration (QF - Colombia), German East Africa - Mafia Island, many Indian feudal states and Mexican revolutionary states, U.S. carrier and Confederate provisionals, etc. I've also found that many of their frame sizes are wrong (mostly too large).
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I am kind of in awe of people who try to collect the world up to present...but for me it would have been better that my first "worldwide" album was my last. But who knew ?
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Congratulations to Phil Pritcharad on completing his updates for the Vintage Reproductions' pages for 1840-1940 to include all modern additions to the Scott catalog for the period and corrections for the known errors in the original Brown albums. This is quite an accomplishment to see this through to completion!
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About two years ago, I returned to collecting and purchased used Scott International Volumes I through V. My intention was to see if I liked WW collecting, and possibly identify one or more countries to specialize in.
One downside to buying used albums is dealing with the former owners' placement of stamps in empty space or in the margins. At first I thought no big deal, I'll just cover them with stamps. But I've since adopted the blank page as my way to places stamps I want to keep that do not have spaces. That leaves a lot of unsightly hinge remnants, as seen in this pic:
Here's an example blank page where I put stamps that have: no spot in the album, a color variation, an overprint, an interesting cancellation, etc. Almost always with out much regard to arrangement other than to keep them neatly aligned.
In addition, there are many of the other usual problems with used albums: yellowing pages, edge wear, possible missing pages, acid paper, thin paper, etc. All in all, these problems are minor and I really enjoy the Scott Internationals.
So, why do I need advice? I'm looking to see if anyone has transitioned from the older Scott Internationals to the newer versions that are are printed on thicker acid-free pages. In your opinion, was it worth the cost (time and money)?
There are also the "Big Brown" reprints. As I understand it, that would replace International Vol I with a very comprehensive 6-volume set of one-sided pages... at a price tag of about $1000! And I would still need to deal with the other volumes.
There is always the option of printing my own pages, but for this part of my collection I've opted against that. At least for now.
Any decision is probably a few years away, as I am still working full time. And that brings up another question... For retirees, did your collecting interests change after retirement? In particular, did you gain additional patience with stamp identification (perfs, watermarks, etc.)? My enjoyment now is in the simplicity of finding stamps and placing them in the album, and the Scott International is great for that. Not much demand for watermarking or perf gauging. What little of that detailed work I do seems like, well, "work," and is not as relaxing. But a move to the more sophisticated "Big Brown" reprints, would require a lot more detective work on my part, as would a move to Scott Specialized albums.
Appreciate any input, even if only seems tangentially related.
-Steve
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
Myself, i would not look forward to moving the stamps in my 9 scott internationals to other albums...ambition is made of sterner stuff ! Like yourself i picked up used Big Blue international albums..i have to deal with how the original owner mounted stamps..but on the other hand i picked up albums for $15.00 to $40.00 apiece and some had quite a few lower value stamps already mounted.
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
Because of the abridgement of the Scott International (Junior) Album, that's what today's Scott Internationals are, I got Scott Specialty pages to cover 1840 to 1950, and Steiner pages for Specialty pages not available. I do have many countries with Specialty pages that run up into the 1990s and to date. However, most countries from 1960 onward are a mix of Scott International and Steiner pages.
The "Brown" reprints are the actual original Scott International albums.
I personally would not buy the new Scott Internationals, especially Part 1 with all its broken down parts that are just as abridged as what you have now, but the cost is ridiculous. If I were to buy WW pages for the first 100 years, I would buy the Brown, or else I'd print out Steiner pages.
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
09 Aug 2016
02:56:30pm
re: Worldwide Album Advice
"I would buy the Brown, or else I'd print out Steiner pages."
I second Michael's opinion, but would go one step further. Forget buying the pages and print using Steiner. You will have a consistent look, full (not abbreviated) coverage, the ability to add customized pages, the selection of the binder and paper that you want, and all very economically. If you do not go to heavy card paper, consider housing your pages in Avery heavy duty sheet protectors (really inexpensive at Costco...which is where I also buy my 3 hole D-ring binders).
Then I would move my existing collection into these pages and albums and donate the (now empty) original albums to someone else who is starting..or house my duplicates in them.
rrr...
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
The Brown album pages are the former Scott International pages that became the original Scott Specialty pages. These pages, for many countries, also contain spaces for minor varieties and postal stationary (mostly cut squares). Today's Scott Specialty pages have been edited downward at least once or twice since.
I just wanted to add that to clarify that these are not re-printings of any current Scott International or Specialty pages available on the market today.
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
Thanks for all of the comments.
Michael, the Scott's Brown pages became the "Vintage Specialty" pages, correct? These are the ones that are available for $879.51 from Subway, who goes to great length to disguise their content:
http://www.subwaystamp.com/SET-BOOK-1-BOOK-6-PAGES/productinfo/ZVRW04P1-6/
Those prices are for the pages that fit in the Big Blue binders. The prices for pages that fit other binders are $170 more (why?) at $1,048.00. Doesn't matter whether it's $879 or $1,048, that's a chunk of coin I'm not ready to part with!
I'll hold off any decisions for a while and continue to replace my worst pages one at a time from the various copies I've acquired. And who knows, I might warm up to rrr's strong second to the idea of printing out pages.
-Steve
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
"So, why do I need advice? I'm looking to see if anyone has transitioned from the older Scott Internationals to the newer versions that are are printed on thicker acid-free pages. In your opinion, was it worth the cost (time and money)?
"
Short answer is YES!
Steve- you are asking really good questions, and I think much of the advice already given is relevant. I myself use Steiner for 1840-1940 (44 binders,6000 pages!), but have a fondness for the blue Scott Internationals.
I'll add my 2c.
If you decide to go with the blue Scott Internationals....
(I will just discuss Part I 1840-1940 here.)
All of Scott International Part I 1840-1940 (Big Blue) editions from 1969 to the present are basically the same coverage wise, although sections have been moved around in the later editions to make it easier to integrate or collate with Part II (1840-49+), Part III etc. I notice you are bothered by hinge stains that will still be there on the page even if you fill the stamp spaces. I am likewise.
And you say, at this point, you don't mind having to worry about watermarks, different perfs etc.
You might very well be happiest with obtaining new thick paper pages from Amos Advantage for Part I (Now divided into IA1,IA2,IB1,IB2).
Nice presentation on clean thick pages, and 35,000 spaces to fill for the years 1840-1940.- a real challenge! Most stamp choices for spaces are inexpensive. No watermarking required. Little space requirement compared to the Steiner. Did I mention clean and fresh?
But there are plenty of inexpensive stamps (10,000 - 15,000+) that do not have a space in Big Blue. Putting the extra stamps you collect that have no spaces on supplementary pages is perfectly acceptable. But a person does best with Big Blue if he or she collects to the album- that is, find stamps that have spaces in Big Blue.
To that end, I have been publishing a checklist on my blogsite (address below) listing the stamp possibilities for the spaces in Big Blue .
Good luck in whatever choice you make!
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
Just to understand about pricing, and why I suggested if you want complete coverage to go with the Brown instead of the Blue International is that the four parts of the Blue International have a list price of $150.00 per part. That means $600.00 to get all four parts. Even Amos Advantage lists at $120.00 or $480.00 for all four parts.
For $879.00 for the Brown you get complete coverage of all the countries, rather than the badly abridged Blue International pages. The Browns are printed on one side on thicker paper, while the Internationals are printed on both sides and on thinner paper.
Both sets come in parts, so you do not have to buy the entire set at one time. Get one or more at a time as you can afford them.
That is the point I was making. To me, it would be worth the extra money to get the complete coverage. However, the Steiner pages remains a valid option as well, and you will get about the same coverage as the Browns. Remember that you'll also have to get binders whichever set you choose, including the Steiner pages.
Here is a link that takes you to their catalog and the Browns. It shows the year break out for each part. I don't know what you mean that they disguise the content. It's every country, as applicable, for the year periods of each part.
http://www.subwaystamp.com/2014stamp/2014stamp.swf#p=168
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
For me, the Steiner pages have been a great option. I can print what I need, as I need it. I haven't found any gaps, but if there were any, I could easily custom build pages to fill the void.
The problem I anticipated with the Scott's albums, is that by the time I could fill all the spaces, the album would be outdated and I'd be right back to square one. Supplementing, or looking for new albums again.
WB
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
Rather than "outdated", do you mean that the Scott albums would go "out of production"? That was/is a constant problem with Scott, and one reason why I stopped buying the Specialty albums and now supplement with the International and fill in the gaps of missing items (souvenir sheets, large blocks, booklets and several countries not supplied in the Internationals) with the Steiner pages.
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
"I don't know what you mean that they disguise the content."
Michael, by that I meant that for someone who doesn't really know what they are looking at, it would be very had to make a $1000 buying decision. I would challenge any newcomer to make sense of the catalog pages (Subway or other). It is only through StamoRama, Jim's excellent BigBlue blog, Antonius Ra's terrific pages, and discussions in stamp shops and at stamp shows that I have come to a basic understanding of what's in the various albums.
Stamp shops rarely have albums for sale (understandably), so it is hard to hold something in my hands and gain an appreciation for what's included and what's not. For example, one basic question I still have: Are Big Brown and the Specialty albums basically the same for the years that they cover? That is, do they both include all basic Scott numbered issues in the catalogs, including back of book?
When I decided to buy the used Big Blues a couple years back, it took quite a bit of searching just to find basic details. After I received my albums, I learned about the thin paper used in the early volumes, the acidic content of the paper, and the awkward nature of the page arrangement. All in good enjoyment of the hobby of course, and I don't regret the decision!
And Phil, I have thought about the task of moving thousands of stamps into new albums...
While I enjoy filling spaces, I would not want to take on a task that might diminish that delight. Oh, what joyous decisions lie ahead... -Steve
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
"Are Big Brown and the Specialty albums basically the same for the years that they cover? That is, do they both include all basic Scott numbered issues in the catalogs, including back of book?"
Yes. The old Scott International pages, which are what the Browns are, became the Scott Specialty Albums. Scott them issued the International Junior, which became the Blue. Subway used to send out a sample page on request. I don't know if they still do it.
This is a revised Scott Specialty page where they removed the country information from the top of the page, since this is page 1 for Bulgaria. Other than that, this is about what a Brown page will look like. Note the old wood block images with the cut line, and no catalog numbers. There is no toning on the page. This happened as the page was larger than the scanner cover so some light escaped.
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
Here's what a full page of the older type looks like:
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
The Subway "Vintage Reproduction Pages", which appear to be scans of the old bound Scott Brown Album pages, do have spaces for all of the issued stamps including the "back-of-the-book" issues. They do not have spaces for the issues with minor numbers such as paper varieties, minor color variations, etc., so if you have any of those in your possession and wish to mount them, you will need to do so on separate pages of your own design.
I found several things frustrating with the Subway Vintage pages. One was that they reproduced the pages exactly as they were found in each of the six original Brown Albums. Just today I was moving some Monaco stamps from Vintage pages to Steiner's pages that I have printed off for myself. The second series of Monaco stamps as they are listed in Scott are spread over quite a few years (1891-1921). Since each Brown album only covered a certain time frame (Volume 1 covers 1840-1900, Volume 2 covers 1901-1920, etc.), this one series of stamps that Scott has grouped together will be found on three separate pages in three of the different Brown albums. If you combine the Subway Vintage pages into one massive set of pages where all the pages for each stamp issuing entity are grouped together, this one set of stamps will be spread piece-meal across three non-sequential pages.
A second issue was that if a stamp issuing entity issued only a very limited number of a certain type of stamp, you may get only one or two stamps presented on a page. Again, if you combine all the pages for one country from all six Subway Vintage album page sections, you may end up one semi-postal stamp on one page, then the following page will have one semi-postal stamp, followed by a page with maybe two semi-postal stamps. A lot of paper with not much to show for it.
I also never liked the way the stamps are all scrunched together for each series of stamps. The appearance to me just looks better when each stamp is separated from all the other stamps with a white space around the frame where the stamp is mounted within.
Since the Subway Vintage pages appear to be copies of the Scott Brown Album pages made by scanning in the Brown Album pages and then reproducing these scans on pages with the outside frame already printed on, the outside page frame is very sharp and clear while everything printed inside the page frame looks somewhat poorly printed, with some areas clearer and other areas with a lighter printing that almost looks somewhat faded.
Lastly, when I purchased my set of Subway Vintage pages many years ago (right after they were issued), they were only available in the two-post punch that is used in the International Album binders. After working with my new albums for a short time, the pages at each end of the album were already starting tear where they were punched. So I opened each binder when I was mounting stamps so that each page I was working on could be removed and worked on outside of the binder. That ended up being a big hassle. If you do decide to go the with Subway Vintage Pages, go with the three-hole punch. They may cost more, but the pages will probably last much longer around the punch holes and can be placed in any three-ring binder and not just in the much more expensive two-post binders used to house Scott's International Album pages. The margins on the left-hand side of the page with the two-post punching are very narrow; it appears to be much wider on the pages with the three-hole punching meaning that the pages themselves are a bit wider.
After trying many different album makers over the years (Lighthouse, Scott Internationals, Subway Vintage Reproduction Pages), I was always left disappointed. Lighthouse didn't make albums for all the different stamp issuing countries and territories of the world, but the ones that they do have are just superb (and very expensive). The Scott International album sections have the two-sided printing which may save on pages but then results in stamps catching on each other unless interleaving is used. And the 1840-1940 sections did not have spaces for many stamps. The pages not laying flat when the album is opened is also a problem when mounting stamps although it is not a problem when looking through the album. The Subway Vintage Reproduction Page issues I had are mentioned above.
About 2011 I finally discovered Palo Albums. After purchasing one album from Palo (the first set of Austria pages), I was sold on their quality and layout. I am now mounting all of the countries and territories where I specialize in Palo Albums. The only complaint that I have about Palo's pages is that I wish I had an ability to order the album pages without the stamp's picture reproduction in each and every mounting space. I get the pages with the stamp pictures printed in black-and-white rather than in color so that I can more easily see which stamps I don't possess; with the color pictures it is hard to tell. Also, with Palo, you can converse with the guy that started and runs the company and get special items done for you. They will print unique pages for items that are not on the standard pages, but for a hefty price as can be expected. For me he special ordered a very large size of the Davo hingeless mounts that he did not carry. It is just satisfying when a business owner asks if he can do something for you rather than just give you the "Sorry, don't have that."
For all the other areas of the world that are not covered by my Palo Albums, I use Bill Steiner's pages. I believe for $40 you can get a CD from Mr. Steiner that contains all of the pages that he has available or for the same $40 you can have access to all of his page files online. Like Palo Albums, he has pages for all stamp issuing entities the world over and the pages have spaces for all stamps, back-of-the-book included. You can just print those pages where you have stamps to mount potentially saving a huge amount of storage space. As your collection grows, just print off pages as you need them. All you need is a printer and the right type of paper.
Between Palo Albums and Stamp Albums Web (Steiner's website), I have everything that I could possibly want in regards to stamp album pages. And I do collect worldwide but also specialize with several countries.
And that issue with the Monaco stamp set that was spread over three non-sequential pages with the Subway Vintage Reproduction Pages? With both the Steiner pages and the Palo Album pages that set will all be grouped together on one page just like it is shown in the Scott Catalogue.
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
The older Scott Specialty pages likewise do not have the longer sets grouped together, but like the Brown Vintage pages are grouped by year of issue.
A trick to avoid tearing the pages from the posts is to use the Scott filler strips to make sure that the pages are snug in the binder so that the pages don't have room to slide along the posts when turning the pages. Once I started using them, I no longer had pages ripping off the posts. Scott also has page reinforcement strips that you can use to repair the torn post holes on a page.
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
Michael,
You posted the link to the Subway catalog above. Maybe you or someone else could explain the difference between the items on the top of pg 168 and those at the top of 169.
At the top of page 168, I see "Big Brown International" and prices for Books 1-6, pages only.
At the top of page 169, I see "Vintage Reproductions" and again prices for Books 1-6, but slightly cheaper.
What's the difference. This section of the catalog is very confusing. I wonder if they ever make any sales? Also confusing, the prices in this PDF do not jibe with the web-site prices.
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"The older Scott Specialty pages likewise do not have the longer sets grouped together, but like the Brown Vintage pages are grouped by year of issue."
That this is a plus for Steiner (and Palo, which has a license to use the Steiner layout for many of its pages), as the Steiner layout usually has the issue set grouped together, irrespective of the specific stamp issue date within a set. This makes it also easy to follow using the modern Scott catalogue.
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
We few,we madmen..we WORLDWIDE collectors ! Michael i feel the pain of the abridging between years with the big blue boys...and when on a country like say Brazil when they make a page 1963-64 how many stamps are they leaving out ? A lot. Today i was putting the last pages of my Internationals which had broke loose from the posts into plastic sleeves..it not a perfect answer...but it keeps me from losing any pages.
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Phil, why don't you use page reinforcements? The cheap, round ones work great for the round punched paper.
Lewis, the Big Brown International are the reprints that are on the paper size of the Scott Specialty albums. The Vintage Reproductions are reprints that on the paper size of the Scott International albums. The larger-sized paper costs a little more to buy so the higher cost would be my guess.
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Michael, Good advice..i think the lifesavers i had were old...i will try a fresh pack..at times i have found it difficult to repair the damage to the page with the small page reinforcers.
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Richard, thank you very much for that detailed explanation. I discovered many of those things after buying my Big Blues. Again, no regrets. And again, I am astonished at the lack of basic information out there for these fairly substantial purchases. Knowing that the Big Brown "Vintage" pages suffer from some of the same shortcomings as the Internationals makes them look less attractive. But, no decisions just yet!
Also had the same question as Lewis about the two varieties of Big Browns in the catalogs. Finally figured out that they had different holes punched in them, but I didn't know that the Specialized format is a different size than the International format. But thanks to Michael, now I know!
I use hole reinforcements all the time. The cheap ones from Dollar General I think are $1 for a pack of several hundred. In addition to being cheap, they thicken the page at the binding so that it becomes closer to the thickness of the page with stamps hinged on both sides. That keeps the binding tight and helps prevent the unsightly "album bulge" that comes with a healthy collection.
"We few,we madmen..we WORLDWIDE collectors!"
Phil, here's the rest of the quote:
We few, we happy few, we worldwide collectors;
For he to-day that collects his stamps with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his collection;
And collectors of one land now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not worldly,
And hold their country albums cheap whiles any speaks
That collected with us this intact and unbroken grand ole oerth!
-Steve
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Me the red headed step child, Minkus Master Global to 1960 works for my WW collection. I prefer the grouping of all issues versus the Scott BOB. The heavy stamp load and grouping on each page does not bother me, however I am a slave to the Scott Nationals for my US collection.
5 years ago I would have never thought I would have any interest in WW, but a chance encounter with a couple of monster Minkus albums and a big-o-pile of pre 1960 WW stamps got me hooked.
Nice used albums are hard to come by,that do not have catalouge values written in with ink, hinge remnants in the margins, mounts that have torn the pages, etc...
I do have a set of Minkus Catalogues,almost a must with Minkus albums.
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Thanks Steve ! Fred i came too late to the table with the Supreme Master Global albums, in my area the Scott internationals were much more available than the Minkus..plus the scott catalogs were compatible..i purchased a couple of Minkus Master globals as collection remainders and was impressed with them !
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Back in the day it was really nice buying Part 1 of the International (1840-1940). I bought mine around 1970. It was all contained in one part and the binder was included too. Oh yeah, the price? A whopping $19.98. Today's price with one binder is almost $700.
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No wonder people use the Steiner pages...better to spend on the stamps than the albums ! When the dealer buys a collection he gets the albums thrown in.
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Thanks Michael. I never thought the difference in price was paper size.
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I am using the "Big Brown International" pages from Subway. Yes, the intent of Scott was to provide a space for every postage stamp issues, but there have been lots of changes (deletions and additions) since these albums were issues. I had dozens of stamps for which there were no spaces. I am making my own pages to update the album.
Moderator's Note: Some text was deleted due to copyright infringement and lack of rights to distribute such material.
Added by original poster: there is no copyright infringement. I applied to Amos Media (Scott) for permission to use Scott catalog numbers. They declined. But they pointed out that (1) I could use their numbers on pages printed solely for my personal use and (2) I could distribute the pages to others if I did NOT include Scott numbers (they were sent sample pages). The pages I am offering lack Scott numbers.
There is an article on my project in the first quarter 2019 issue of Philatelic Literature Review. You can also email me (philpritchard@mindspring.com) and I will send you an introductory document and a list of the available pages (PDF files). I have made about 1440 pages at present, with about 900 left to go (total for all 6 of the Subway Stamp Shop volumes) - there area LOT of missing stamps in what may have been (back before 1940) a comprehensive worldwide album. I expect to finish early next year. I provide packages of about 50 PDF pages per email, along with information on how to get them printed.
This project was completed on 20 November 2020. There are approximately 2433 pages. I am starting work on an update based on the 2021 Classic Specialized catalog, just out.
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
I collect world wide thru 1999 for the most part. I went over to Steiner pages about 8 years ago. I first had an online subscription, which expired before I realized I hadn't downloaded all pages that I needed. Then went and bought the CD version. For some countries, I initially printed only thru mid 70's. Now If I need further pages, I just print the page needed instead of an entire years worth of pages.
I use acid-free cover stock for the pages and print with a HP laser-jet all in one. If a page gets damaged in some way - simple task to just print a new page.
Checkout eBayer theclassicarchives. They have a stamp collecting CD with a bunch of reference books, and several variations of album pages. Steiner's pages were also on the CD that I purchased back in 2016. See that CD is still available - 10 bucks with S&H.
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re: Worldwide Album Advice
The seller may not have a license to distribute Steiner pages.
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To my knowledge, their newer philatelic CDs do not have Steiner pages on them. I believe you are correct about the licensing matter.
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I have finished my update pages for the Brown Internationals. A preliminary count is 2433 pages (5082 is the original total for the six volumes of the Browns). I am now working on updates for the 2021 Classic Specialized catalog (Central Albania, French Morocco locals, etc.).
Those who use the Steiner pages: they don't cover EVERYTHING (remarks apply only to issues up to 1940). For example, most fiscal-postal (AR) issues, most semi-official airmails (CL), post office labels (OX - Canada), insured letter (G - Colombia and states), parcel post registration (QF - Colombia), German East Africa - Mafia Island, many Indian feudal states and Mexican revolutionary states, U.S. carrier and Confederate provisionals, etc. I've also found that many of their frame sizes are wrong (mostly too large).
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I am kind of in awe of people who try to collect the world up to present...but for me it would have been better that my first "worldwide" album was my last. But who knew ?
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Congratulations to Phil Pritcharad on completing his updates for the Vintage Reproductions' pages for 1840-1940 to include all modern additions to the Scott catalog for the period and corrections for the known errors in the original Brown albums. This is quite an accomplishment to see this through to completion!
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