Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
03:17:45pm
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I assume you are talking about the Willem III issue of 1872.
Whatever you do, don't get a NVPH (Netherlands specialized catalogue). It lists 10 different perforations, though some just differ in the size of the holes. Sorting all those out will really drive you crazy.
Jan
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05:12:43pm
Yup, that's the set that I'm currently pulling my hair about.
I've set out a piece of paper and listing the perfs on it as I go to separate them all into each category. That's the easiest way I could think if doing it.
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06:06:30pm
Thus far I've come up with 6 varieties - 5 of which are compounds. Methinks this project will take forever.
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The ones you can run across are:
Common:
12½ : 12
12½
Less Common:
13½ : 13¼
Scarce:
11½ : 12
13¼ x 14
Rare:
14 (occurs on 4 values, but you will probably see it only on the 2½ guilder high value.)
Jan
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08:32:07pm
I've found:
12.5 x 12.5
13 x 12
13.5 x 13
12.75 x 12
12.25 x 12
12.5 x 12
13.25 x 13.25
I've double checked them on 3 different gauges.
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09:03:46pm
For 1867 William III, I found:
13.5 x 14
14 x 13.75
For 1869 Coat of Arms, I found:
13.25 x 13.25 (one of which has a straight edge on the top - appears not to be perf cut because of the wide margin which slants upward and definitely wider than the regular design)
14 x 13.75
13 x 13.25 (right side is a straight edge - "might" be a perf cut - again with wide margin but definitely clean cut)
13.75 x 13
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Kelly,
This is from memory, and if I can find the source, I'll give a more accurate response.
One of the perforation combs used for the 1872 issue was quite "uneven". Although nominally 12.5 : 12, it actually varies from stamp to stamp, and the horizontal can be anywhere from 12.25 to 12.75. In fact the left stamp in each row is only 11.5.
Jan
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I found an article "Holland - 1872-1891 - A Study in Serration" by W.E. Gerrish dated 3 March 1955 which claims that for the 12.5:12 B comb, the horizontal perfs measure (by stamp):
11.5, 12.75 full, 12.75, 12.75, 12.5, 12.25, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5
Jan
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Should at one day the moment arrive that I have nothing else to do, I can always take out the Dutch duplicates stockbooks and check all of these oldies for special perfs. I doubt I ever will...
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10:49:58am
Thanks for info - I'm not usually one to bother about perf varieties but when I saw so many, I pulled out my gauges because these are so different.
I have one gauge that is perfectly clear that I can hold in front of a light to find the accurate perf measurement.
If the King has thrown these at me, what awaits with the Queen? I've got some syncopated as well as perfins. I also have a syncopated perfin which a friend from the Netherlands once gave me some background on (which I need to locate) that significantly changed the cv.
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Syncopated perfs were in use between 1925 and 1933 and yes, they can turn a very common stamp into a valuable one. But you need the right stamp and the right type of syncopation for that (there are four main types). Over here syncopated perfs are more popular than perfins. I do not know whether a syncopated perfin is more or less desireable.
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There was a quote in the article I referenced above:
"During a period from 1872 to 1888 the perforations varied so much between 11.5 and 14 and combinations that it would only confuse the ordinary collector to attempt to bring order out of disorder." (Westoby, Comprehensive Adhesive Postal Stamps of Europe, 1900)
While I do collect these by perforation, I don't go into as much detail as you have started.
You will run across perforation differences with the Queen, but usually it is not so bad, with the exception of the 1923 series.
Jan
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02:06:01pm
When I get to that stamp, I will put up the info on it that Rob gave me years ago. Thus far it is my only syncopated perfin. I found 3 other perfins in this lot that I'm working through right now. I've just arrived at the 1876 Numerals.
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Hi Phil,
I think the perfin is EL (N.V. Handel in Elektrische Artikelen "Elektrolux", 's-Gravenhage.)
Jan
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I show most of the early shades on my site. However I don't show all of the 1876 numerals as there was no space left on the page and there are many of them. The album is to difficult for me to get at right now or I would scan the page they're on, for you. They are really pretty easy to tell the shades apart. It looks like I need to put up my syncopated perf pages also. You'll have real fun when you get to them.
My Netherlands collection is here: http://mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/europe/netherlands/netherlands.html
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08:50:48pm
Mitch - I took a look at your page. Do you have a variety with the different perfs - standard and compounds?
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03:59:50am
Well I've finished up to the end of the 1876 Numerals. Between the 1867 William III and the end of the 1876 Numerals, I've come across 17 different perfs - mostly compounds. I've also come across a variety of colours. So I've finally finished them and labeled each section by perf and colour (will finish the latter tmw - my eyes hurt too much to try to see colour variety).
My friend who helps me work on my stamps promptly announced tonight that I'm insane. I think it's fun. She said she'll pick sorting any day over these!
Insane though I may be, it is surprisingly fun. Now I understand why some US Classics collectors get so excited about varieties. I could never do it with those - they would drive me over the edge. Just trying to figure out all the explanations of the US varieties in Scott gives me a headache.
But these are pretty cool!
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Mum
I have little interest in all the different perf variations. I've gone a step farther than Scott Specialty pages by adding shade variants but the perf variants are farther than I want to go. Collecting the world as seriously as I do is pretty insane but specializing in every country just isn't plausible.
The short answer is: No
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Mar 2017
03:17:45pm
Just started working on my Netherlands classics. It's going to take forever since I discovered there are 5 different perfs plus compounds. So every stamp has to be checked - my eyes are going to be killing me. I've only checked 6 stamps so far and I'm exhausted. So a small pile of that particular stamp is awaiting my perf gauge and then I looked at the catalogue and three of my other stamps (two of which have become large mounds at this point!) have up to 5 variations as well. Oh boy, this is gonna be fun!
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04:57:26pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
I assume you are talking about the Willem III issue of 1872.
Whatever you do, don't get a NVPH (Netherlands specialized catalogue). It lists 10 different perforations, though some just differ in the size of the holes. Sorting all those out will really drive you crazy.
Jan
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this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Mar 2017
05:12:43pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
Yup, that's the set that I'm currently pulling my hair about.
I've set out a piece of paper and listing the perfs on it as I go to separate them all into each category. That's the easiest way I could think if doing it.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Mar 2017
06:06:30pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
Thus far I've come up with 6 varieties - 5 of which are compounds. Methinks this project will take forever.
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08:08:04pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
The ones you can run across are:
Common:
12½ : 12
12½
Less Common:
13½ : 13¼
Scarce:
11½ : 12
13¼ x 14
Rare:
14 (occurs on 4 values, but you will probably see it only on the 2½ guilder high value.)
Jan
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this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Mar 2017
08:32:07pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
I've found:
12.5 x 12.5
13 x 12
13.5 x 13
12.75 x 12
12.25 x 12
12.5 x 12
13.25 x 13.25
I've double checked them on 3 different gauges.
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this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Mar 2017
09:03:46pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
For 1867 William III, I found:
13.5 x 14
14 x 13.75
For 1869 Coat of Arms, I found:
13.25 x 13.25 (one of which has a straight edge on the top - appears not to be perf cut because of the wide margin which slants upward and definitely wider than the regular design)
14 x 13.75
13 x 13.25 (right side is a straight edge - "might" be a perf cut - again with wide margin but definitely clean cut)
13.75 x 13
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10:41:31pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
Kelly,
This is from memory, and if I can find the source, I'll give a more accurate response.
One of the perforation combs used for the 1872 issue was quite "uneven". Although nominally 12.5 : 12, it actually varies from stamp to stamp, and the horizontal can be anywhere from 12.25 to 12.75. In fact the left stamp in each row is only 11.5.
Jan
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this post
11:53:06pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
I found an article "Holland - 1872-1891 - A Study in Serration" by W.E. Gerrish dated 3 March 1955 which claims that for the 12.5:12 B comb, the horizontal perfs measure (by stamp):
11.5, 12.75 full, 12.75, 12.75, 12.5, 12.25, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5
Jan
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
Should at one day the moment arrive that I have nothing else to do, I can always take out the Dutch duplicates stockbooks and check all of these oldies for special perfs. I doubt I ever will...
Login to Like
this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
13 Mar 2017
10:49:58am
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
Thanks for info - I'm not usually one to bother about perf varieties but when I saw so many, I pulled out my gauges because these are so different.
I have one gauge that is perfectly clear that I can hold in front of a light to find the accurate perf measurement.
If the King has thrown these at me, what awaits with the Queen? I've got some syncopated as well as perfins. I also have a syncopated perfin which a friend from the Netherlands once gave me some background on (which I need to locate) that significantly changed the cv.
Login to Like
this post
Auctions - Approvals
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
Syncopated perfs were in use between 1925 and 1933 and yes, they can turn a very common stamp into a valuable one. But you need the right stamp and the right type of syncopation for that (there are four main types). Over here syncopated perfs are more popular than perfins. I do not know whether a syncopated perfin is more or less desireable.
Login to Like
this post
02:01:04pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
There was a quote in the article I referenced above:
"During a period from 1872 to 1888 the perforations varied so much between 11.5 and 14 and combinations that it would only confuse the ordinary collector to attempt to bring order out of disorder." (Westoby, Comprehensive Adhesive Postal Stamps of Europe, 1900)
While I do collect these by perforation, I don't go into as much detail as you have started.
You will run across perforation differences with the Queen, but usually it is not so bad, with the exception of the 1923 series.
Jan
Login to Like
this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
13 Mar 2017
02:06:01pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
When I get to that stamp, I will put up the info on it that Rob gave me years ago. Thus far it is my only syncopated perfin. I found 3 other perfins in this lot that I'm working through right now. I've just arrived at the 1876 Numerals.
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this post
08:04:31pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
Hi Phil,
I think the perfin is EL (N.V. Handel in Elektrische Artikelen "Elektrolux", 's-Gravenhage.)
Jan
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this post
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
I show most of the early shades on my site. However I don't show all of the 1876 numerals as there was no space left on the page and there are many of them. The album is to difficult for me to get at right now or I would scan the page they're on, for you. They are really pretty easy to tell the shades apart. It looks like I need to put up my syncopated perf pages also. You'll have real fun when you get to them.
My Netherlands collection is here: http://mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/europe/netherlands/netherlands.html
Login to Like
this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
13 Mar 2017
08:50:48pm
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
Mitch - I took a look at your page. Do you have a variety with the different perfs - standard and compounds?
Login to Like
this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
14 Mar 2017
03:59:50am
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
Well I've finished up to the end of the 1876 Numerals. Between the 1867 William III and the end of the 1876 Numerals, I've come across 17 different perfs - mostly compounds. I've also come across a variety of colours. So I've finally finished them and labeled each section by perf and colour (will finish the latter tmw - my eyes hurt too much to try to see colour variety).
My friend who helps me work on my stamps promptly announced tonight that I'm insane. I think it's fun. She said she'll pick sorting any day over these!
Insane though I may be, it is surprisingly fun. Now I understand why some US Classics collectors get so excited about varieties. I could never do it with those - they would drive me over the edge. Just trying to figure out all the explanations of the US varieties in Scott gives me a headache.
But these are pretty cool!
Login to Like
this post
re: Perforations - Netherlands Classics
Mum
I have little interest in all the different perf variations. I've gone a step farther than Scott Specialty pages by adding shade variants but the perf variants are farther than I want to go. Collecting the world as seriously as I do is pretty insane but specializing in every country just isn't plausible.
The short answer is: No
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