Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
What I find interesting (and confusing?) is that while it has been great fun COLLECTING for many years, it is also (even more?) great fun SELLING. Perhaps the hobby should be viewed as consisting of two distinct parts: Buying, and then Selling. Just ramblings on a Sunday morning -
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Looking at ebay lately the only way to buy it seems to me is to buy a complete collection with album included for 50 to a hundred dollars...I see country collections that i have paid 50 percent of catalog or better for in the 1970's and 80's going for a song...but i already have the stamps !
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I'm in total agreement with Bob. I've found that selling an accumulation of philatelic material can be fun and rewarding, especially if it's done over an extended period of time.
I realized several years ago that I needed to focus more on other less costly interests. For me, those other interests involved digitizing and sharing historical information and images with others. I was fortunate to have access to a large volume of local historical materials that were unavailable to the general public. I also had the skills to digitize and share those materials online beginning about over a decade ago. I have enough backlogged work to keep me busy for several more years! As much as I love philately, I'd much rather be sharing with others than collecting stamps. And, that sharing includes philatelic and information!
Of course, I have mixed feelings about selling the stamps and related materials. I'll miss them, but thinking about my stamps moving on to new collectors/collections is rewarding as is the sales process itself. In fact, I've been more involved than ever with the stamps and philately generally since I began selling. I'm still not an expert in any aspect of philately, but I have a far better understanding of many aspects of the hobby than I did while I was actively accumulating the material.
Notice that I generally avoid using the term "collection." I never really felt that I got far enough into the organization of everything I accumulated to justify the use of that term. Much of my accumulation was 1950s era collections of mostly mint pre-1940 British, French and Portuguese colonies. A fair amount of that material wasn't removed from the old album pages until after I started selling. So verifying what I had accumulated became a significant aspect of the selling—and learning—process. It has been educational and that has made it fun.
I don't mind that this selling process has been going on for more than a decade now! It gives me an excuse to stay involved while slowly turning my philatelic materials back into cash for retirement. I know this route won't be suitable for most, but it's been a win-win-win for me.
Tom
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I like buying lots. You never know what you will find. Here's one I recently bought for
$73.00. There turned out to be $100 in face value mint stamps. That includes all those envelopes of 3 cent commemoratives. That, and the stock sheets of used 4 cent stamps appear to be part of some old dealer inventory. I have stock books with the same stock sheets and interesting enough, I was really light in that 4 cent era, so that group filled out many numbers where I had empty slots.
The older US used stamps were probably worth the $73 all by themselves. Yes, there were some damaged stamps and some with bad postmarks. But I did fill in some holes in my collection. I liked the later group of high value used stamps, a lot of express mail type stamps. I didn't have any of those.
All told the lot gave me a week of evenings pleasure. It added some stamps to my collection and gave me a ton of trading stock! See the photos below as long as the vendor keeps them online.
http://www.sunphilate.com/image/e30uaa.html
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To make a profit a dealer has to purchase "general" collections for under 10%. Either they will flip the collection for slightly more or expend the time to break it down and sell individual items. The latter effort takes time, which costs money and adds to expenses.
When I buy general collections on Ebay, I usually pay no more than that, otherwise I pass, unless I can be sure of the condition and other specifics and/or it is a high-end collection with lots of rare material. Usually, the "general" collections I have bought have been in the 6%-8% of CAT range. This is the reality for common material sold in a collection.
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I seem to recall that 4% was the magical percentage that one dealer recalled using to determine between financial success and failure, but, remember, that's a dealer looking to profit from collections he bought.
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Dealers make their money when they buy, not when they sell.
Don
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i am glad i am a collector not a dealer...i can bid as much as i want..if i can not get the item i want..i will make the winner pay for it...i take what i want from the collection and take what i can get for those i do not need. I am not worrying about percentages. I am currently bidding on a collection of French railroad stamps...i do not have a clue what they are worth...i have an idea of how high i am willing to bid on them.
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Love that statement ! I have no clue what they are worth but know what I will pay for them! That sounds like me all day everyday with my collecting of not only stamps but everything in life ! Lol !
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Then there are the guys at the other end of the spectrum that say they do not spend more than 8 or 10 percent of catalog for a stamp...there must be some empty spacs in those albums
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Long ago I separated my collecting into two types; 'specialized' and 'fun'. My ‘specialized’ collections are detailed, higher quality material and are stored in dedicated albums. My ‘fun’ collecting is done in a group of 12 world-wide Scott Internationals.
But I never, ever get ripped off when I buy for my 'fun' collecting. I never do because I calculate a ‘fun factor’ for myself. I look at the lot and the only estimate I need to make is how many hours of ‘fun’ I will have with it. This includes discovery time, learning time, time needed to sort material, time need to absorb desired material into my collection, and time disposition the balance. I then multiple the estimated number of hours by $15-$20 per hour (this is the amount I am typically willing to pay for ‘fun’).
Additionally, having two distinct types of collecting also allows me to maintain my long term interest. I sometimes spend more time and money on specialized material but when this gets to be a bit much I turn back to the ‘fun’ world-wide collecting for a while.
Don
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"Then there are the guys at the other end of the spectrum that say they do not spend more than 8 or 10 percent of catalog for a stamp...there must be some empty spacs in those albums."
I think most people you are thinking of would have been more detailed about their statement. At least I would. I won't pay more than 10% for a run-of-the-mill collection from Ebay for which I cannot examine the stamps in detail to determine condition and often the variety (e.g., because images are not detailed enough). I bought these types of collections when starting my Swiss collection (just as an example). There is no point buying one stamp at a time when starting out because of the opportunity for getting some nice deals in these collections. Generally this works, provided you don't pay too much. The reasons why I pay attention to price at this stage of a basically unseen collection are many: there are unseen defects, repairs, mis-categorized stamps etc. in such a collection.
However, eventually, buying more general collections to fill an existing collection is overkill (you'll end up with a lot of duplicates). Therefore, after a few starting collections, containing most of the common material, and maybe some nice finds, I buy individual items. I'm at that stage in the Swiss collection. Generally I have everything (up to a certain year) that is common, and now must target the rarer more expensive items.
These types of individual lots, to fill uncommon slots in the album, generally are more expensive because the stamps are more valuable or rarer. But usually the auction images associated with such stamps are better, thus justifying the higher cost. I like to see the front and back in a fairly high-resolution scan to purchase a single item. But generally I am paying more than 8%-10% for a nice single item of this type.
Then there are the cases where there are really nice collections out there with a lot of good material. I recently paid 30-40% of CV for a high end collection. Again it had a mix of material of varying condition, but it was clear there were some very desirable items that justified the increased price. I ended up with a lot of duplication, but now have quite a few varieties of first and second issues.
So, for most people its not a blanket 8-10% for everything. As in all purchases, whether stamps, groceries, washing machines, its an assessment of the quality of the item, the asking price, the quantity and so on. I'd buy one washing machine for the asking price. But if I had to buy a collection of washing machines and choose the best one for myself and flip the others, I'd require a wholesale price.
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I understand the statement of not paying more than 10% of catalog for a collection. I have been buying single classic stamps on eBay for 10-20% of catalog from dealers.
Let's say a dealer buys a collection of USA from number 1 to date... 99% of those stamps aren't worth face value in today's market. So for each Scott 1 and 2, you have to buy one of each and every one of those stamps! That means a dealer has to make his profit on the 1-5% of that collection and everything else winds up in a wholesale lot. It's just not worth sorting.
We had a big dealer come to our club meeting to talk about this subject. He said on a regular basis, heirs come in with huge files of USA sheets from the past 75 years. He tells them he can only pay a fraction of face value. He said even with postage bought at 60% of face value, he cannot use them on his big mailings because he pays his help $10 an hour... ever try to make up current postage rates from 3 cent commemoratives?
PS-that's 16 stamps!
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I might someday consider selling some of my stamps, but so many of my stamps have memories attached to them. Like my Australian stamp album that my Dad and Mum gave me for my 13th birthday and the set of the Royals (Australian stamps) that they gave me the next Christmas. Then there is my Guernsey collection that I bought from Liz and my Irish collect that Theresa started me on, and my interest in postcards that Doe got me started on. Lets not even start on all the stamps that I have bought from Lee and Tal over the years. Ah well, what are you going to do.
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Tim, I know the feeling! As I dug into my stamp hoard that I hadn't touched in 30 years, I found many things I had bought as a child and realized that I had owned them most of my life.
Like you, I found the Scott Minuteman USA album I had saved my pennies for, and bought back when I was 14 years old. At first glance I planned on moving all the stamps to my new USA collection, then I had second thoughts. I realized it needed to stay intact, just the way I built it in my teens. And maybe I'll add stamps to it too!
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"At first glance I planned on moving all the stamps to my new USA collection, then I had second thoughts. I realized it needed to stay intact, just the way I built it in my teens. And maybe I'll add stamps to it too!"
Tom, my experience as well, except that my childhood album was a Harris Liberty. My dilemma now is whether or not to re-mount all the stamps I mounted with Crystal Mounts...
What had been a footlocker carried around unopened for decades is now two footlockers and several bookshelves. God forbid I ever have to move again!
-Steve
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"Tom, my experience as well, except that my childhood album was a Harris Liberty. My dilemma now is whether or not to re-mount all the stamps I mounted with Crystal Mounts... Crying At Wits End Sad
What had been a footlocker carried around unopened for decades is now two footlockers and several bookshelves. God forbid I ever have to move again!"
I know the story! My collection was in moving boxes, moved from house to house over the years. Upon opening it all up two years ago, my plan was to build a USA collection from the contents. I decided I wanted something to represent each stamp issue, but I didn't care if it was a mint or used single, a plate block or a cover. I swore I would do this from what I had, without buying anything.
Well, two years and after buying practically each and every week, I now have become obsessed with collecting a mint single, a plate block and a first day cover for each and every issue! And now I have more duplicate material than I ever had from buying big lots. Oh well.
And per my old Minuteman album, I do have pages where mounts ruined a page, ones that got torn or bent etc. In one of the hoards I bought, there was a Minuteman album just like mine, but the cover was torn. So I can go through the two of them and replace the damaged pages in my old collection. Plus mine was only complete through 1972 and the one I bought is complete through 1976. That would be a logical end for this collection as I lost interest as a youth around 1978.
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After observing, and assisting, a couple widows of my deceased stamp collecting friends try and sell their husband's collections over the past few months, I am left with very mixed emotions. It has not been pretty. It would appear that the major stamp houses are offering 5% of CV, or less, for so-called "general" collections.
What I find interesting (and confusing?) is that while it has been great fun COLLECTING for many years, it is also (even more?) great fun SELLING. Perhaps the hobby should be viewed as consisting of two distinct parts: Buying, and then Selling. Just ramblings on a Sunday morning -
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
Looking at ebay lately the only way to buy it seems to me is to buy a complete collection with album included for 50 to a hundred dollars...I see country collections that i have paid 50 percent of catalog or better for in the 1970's and 80's going for a song...but i already have the stamps !
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
I'm in total agreement with Bob. I've found that selling an accumulation of philatelic material can be fun and rewarding, especially if it's done over an extended period of time.
I realized several years ago that I needed to focus more on other less costly interests. For me, those other interests involved digitizing and sharing historical information and images with others. I was fortunate to have access to a large volume of local historical materials that were unavailable to the general public. I also had the skills to digitize and share those materials online beginning about over a decade ago. I have enough backlogged work to keep me busy for several more years! As much as I love philately, I'd much rather be sharing with others than collecting stamps. And, that sharing includes philatelic and information!
Of course, I have mixed feelings about selling the stamps and related materials. I'll miss them, but thinking about my stamps moving on to new collectors/collections is rewarding as is the sales process itself. In fact, I've been more involved than ever with the stamps and philately generally since I began selling. I'm still not an expert in any aspect of philately, but I have a far better understanding of many aspects of the hobby than I did while I was actively accumulating the material.
Notice that I generally avoid using the term "collection." I never really felt that I got far enough into the organization of everything I accumulated to justify the use of that term. Much of my accumulation was 1950s era collections of mostly mint pre-1940 British, French and Portuguese colonies. A fair amount of that material wasn't removed from the old album pages until after I started selling. So verifying what I had accumulated became a significant aspect of the selling—and learning—process. It has been educational and that has made it fun.
I don't mind that this selling process has been going on for more than a decade now! It gives me an excuse to stay involved while slowly turning my philatelic materials back into cash for retirement. I know this route won't be suitable for most, but it's been a win-win-win for me.
Tom
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
I like buying lots. You never know what you will find. Here's one I recently bought for
$73.00. There turned out to be $100 in face value mint stamps. That includes all those envelopes of 3 cent commemoratives. That, and the stock sheets of used 4 cent stamps appear to be part of some old dealer inventory. I have stock books with the same stock sheets and interesting enough, I was really light in that 4 cent era, so that group filled out many numbers where I had empty slots.
The older US used stamps were probably worth the $73 all by themselves. Yes, there were some damaged stamps and some with bad postmarks. But I did fill in some holes in my collection. I liked the later group of high value used stamps, a lot of express mail type stamps. I didn't have any of those.
All told the lot gave me a week of evenings pleasure. It added some stamps to my collection and gave me a ton of trading stock! See the photos below as long as the vendor keeps them online.
http://www.sunphilate.com/image/e30uaa.html
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
To make a profit a dealer has to purchase "general" collections for under 10%. Either they will flip the collection for slightly more or expend the time to break it down and sell individual items. The latter effort takes time, which costs money and adds to expenses.
When I buy general collections on Ebay, I usually pay no more than that, otherwise I pass, unless I can be sure of the condition and other specifics and/or it is a high-end collection with lots of rare material. Usually, the "general" collections I have bought have been in the 6%-8% of CAT range. This is the reality for common material sold in a collection.
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
I seem to recall that 4% was the magical percentage that one dealer recalled using to determine between financial success and failure, but, remember, that's a dealer looking to profit from collections he bought.
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
Dealers make their money when they buy, not when they sell.
Don
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
i am glad i am a collector not a dealer...i can bid as much as i want..if i can not get the item i want..i will make the winner pay for it...i take what i want from the collection and take what i can get for those i do not need. I am not worrying about percentages. I am currently bidding on a collection of French railroad stamps...i do not have a clue what they are worth...i have an idea of how high i am willing to bid on them.
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10:26:53pm
re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
Love that statement ! I have no clue what they are worth but know what I will pay for them! That sounds like me all day everyday with my collecting of not only stamps but everything in life ! Lol !
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
Then there are the guys at the other end of the spectrum that say they do not spend more than 8 or 10 percent of catalog for a stamp...there must be some empty spacs in those albums
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
Long ago I separated my collecting into two types; 'specialized' and 'fun'. My ‘specialized’ collections are detailed, higher quality material and are stored in dedicated albums. My ‘fun’ collecting is done in a group of 12 world-wide Scott Internationals.
But I never, ever get ripped off when I buy for my 'fun' collecting. I never do because I calculate a ‘fun factor’ for myself. I look at the lot and the only estimate I need to make is how many hours of ‘fun’ I will have with it. This includes discovery time, learning time, time needed to sort material, time need to absorb desired material into my collection, and time disposition the balance. I then multiple the estimated number of hours by $15-$20 per hour (this is the amount I am typically willing to pay for ‘fun’).
Additionally, having two distinct types of collecting also allows me to maintain my long term interest. I sometimes spend more time and money on specialized material but when this gets to be a bit much I turn back to the ‘fun’ world-wide collecting for a while.
Don
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
"Then there are the guys at the other end of the spectrum that say they do not spend more than 8 or 10 percent of catalog for a stamp...there must be some empty spacs in those albums."
I think most people you are thinking of would have been more detailed about their statement. At least I would. I won't pay more than 10% for a run-of-the-mill collection from Ebay for which I cannot examine the stamps in detail to determine condition and often the variety (e.g., because images are not detailed enough). I bought these types of collections when starting my Swiss collection (just as an example). There is no point buying one stamp at a time when starting out because of the opportunity for getting some nice deals in these collections. Generally this works, provided you don't pay too much. The reasons why I pay attention to price at this stage of a basically unseen collection are many: there are unseen defects, repairs, mis-categorized stamps etc. in such a collection.
However, eventually, buying more general collections to fill an existing collection is overkill (you'll end up with a lot of duplicates). Therefore, after a few starting collections, containing most of the common material, and maybe some nice finds, I buy individual items. I'm at that stage in the Swiss collection. Generally I have everything (up to a certain year) that is common, and now must target the rarer more expensive items.
These types of individual lots, to fill uncommon slots in the album, generally are more expensive because the stamps are more valuable or rarer. But usually the auction images associated with such stamps are better, thus justifying the higher cost. I like to see the front and back in a fairly high-resolution scan to purchase a single item. But generally I am paying more than 8%-10% for a nice single item of this type.
Then there are the cases where there are really nice collections out there with a lot of good material. I recently paid 30-40% of CV for a high end collection. Again it had a mix of material of varying condition, but it was clear there were some very desirable items that justified the increased price. I ended up with a lot of duplication, but now have quite a few varieties of first and second issues.
So, for most people its not a blanket 8-10% for everything. As in all purchases, whether stamps, groceries, washing machines, its an assessment of the quality of the item, the asking price, the quantity and so on. I'd buy one washing machine for the asking price. But if I had to buy a collection of washing machines and choose the best one for myself and flip the others, I'd require a wholesale price.
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
I understand the statement of not paying more than 10% of catalog for a collection. I have been buying single classic stamps on eBay for 10-20% of catalog from dealers.
Let's say a dealer buys a collection of USA from number 1 to date... 99% of those stamps aren't worth face value in today's market. So for each Scott 1 and 2, you have to buy one of each and every one of those stamps! That means a dealer has to make his profit on the 1-5% of that collection and everything else winds up in a wholesale lot. It's just not worth sorting.
We had a big dealer come to our club meeting to talk about this subject. He said on a regular basis, heirs come in with huge files of USA sheets from the past 75 years. He tells them he can only pay a fraction of face value. He said even with postage bought at 60% of face value, he cannot use them on his big mailings because he pays his help $10 an hour... ever try to make up current postage rates from 3 cent commemoratives?
PS-that's 16 stamps!
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
I might someday consider selling some of my stamps, but so many of my stamps have memories attached to them. Like my Australian stamp album that my Dad and Mum gave me for my 13th birthday and the set of the Royals (Australian stamps) that they gave me the next Christmas. Then there is my Guernsey collection that I bought from Liz and my Irish collect that Theresa started me on, and my interest in postcards that Doe got me started on. Lets not even start on all the stamps that I have bought from Lee and Tal over the years. Ah well, what are you going to do.
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
Tim, I know the feeling! As I dug into my stamp hoard that I hadn't touched in 30 years, I found many things I had bought as a child and realized that I had owned them most of my life.
Like you, I found the Scott Minuteman USA album I had saved my pennies for, and bought back when I was 14 years old. At first glance I planned on moving all the stamps to my new USA collection, then I had second thoughts. I realized it needed to stay intact, just the way I built it in my teens. And maybe I'll add stamps to it too!
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
"At first glance I planned on moving all the stamps to my new USA collection, then I had second thoughts. I realized it needed to stay intact, just the way I built it in my teens. And maybe I'll add stamps to it too!"
Tom, my experience as well, except that my childhood album was a Harris Liberty. My dilemma now is whether or not to re-mount all the stamps I mounted with Crystal Mounts...
What had been a footlocker carried around unopened for decades is now two footlockers and several bookshelves. God forbid I ever have to move again!
-Steve
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re: Selling overflowing room full of stamps and "stuff".
"Tom, my experience as well, except that my childhood album was a Harris Liberty. My dilemma now is whether or not to re-mount all the stamps I mounted with Crystal Mounts... Crying At Wits End Sad
What had been a footlocker carried around unopened for decades is now two footlockers and several bookshelves. God forbid I ever have to move again!"
I know the story! My collection was in moving boxes, moved from house to house over the years. Upon opening it all up two years ago, my plan was to build a USA collection from the contents. I decided I wanted something to represent each stamp issue, but I didn't care if it was a mint or used single, a plate block or a cover. I swore I would do this from what I had, without buying anything.
Well, two years and after buying practically each and every week, I now have become obsessed with collecting a mint single, a plate block and a first day cover for each and every issue! And now I have more duplicate material than I ever had from buying big lots. Oh well.
And per my old Minuteman album, I do have pages where mounts ruined a page, ones that got torn or bent etc. In one of the hoards I bought, there was a Minuteman album just like mine, but the cover was torn. So I can go through the two of them and replace the damaged pages in my old collection. Plus mine was only complete through 1972 and the one I bought is complete through 1976. That would be a logical end for this collection as I lost interest as a youth around 1978.
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