Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Good luck and stay dry.
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We got home from Kentucky late last night. Went there to watch the eclipse. Now we are home to watch the hurricane. The rain just started, so we shall see how deep it gets. I'm at the edge of the projected extreme weather. We could get up to 10 inches of rain. I live on the top of a hill. In similar downpours that kept up for several days, we have had little flooding other than and inch or two of standing water. Other people down the hill haven't been as fortunate.
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Here's a link to the weather radar for Texas, if you want to check on the storm's progress. We do have some members who live in Corpus Christi and elsewhere along the coast.
Mel, hope all is going to go well with you, and you were able to get out of town!
https://www.wunderground.com/weather-radar/united-states-regional/tx/san-antonio
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We are just about 140 miles directly north of the eye. Lots of rain coming from the large outer band of the storm. The radar shows an endless steam of precipitation coming right up t us from the gulf. As long as the yellows and reds stay away, we will get soaked with local flooding in those areas that tend to flood. We also will keep away from the higher winds, torrential downpours and possible tornadoes.
The forecast has been changed to where we are now expected to get up to 15 inches of rain over the next few days. If the storm doesn't move much, we could get even more.
I'll have plenty of time to work on stamps and run trains!
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As long as the power doesn't go out! Any trouble with that yet?
How far away are you from Victoria? About the same, 140 miles?
Stay dry and no growing web toes through all this.
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Right after I posted the message, we lost internet and TV. So far, the electricity has gone out only for a couple of seconds.
Now the wind is picking up considerably. Many small branches are down. We're in-between rain, which thus far has been steady, but on the light side. That will give the water time to run off. We can't handle much water as a few feet below the top soil is limestone.
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What about the critters? Snakes and creepy-crawly things like that?
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I have a coon hound. He eats anything that comes into the yard. The members of the rodent family seem to be hunkered down elsewhere for the moment.
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I just sent a PM to Charlie, and it dawned on me that he lives near Houston. Hope all is well over there!
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Charlie sent me a reply. He's doing fine.
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I just saw that we've had more rain today (5.26") than Houston (4.1")! The now tropical storm is drifting northerly, and is about 100 miles away. They say the worst is yet to come, and we're supposed to get an additional 12 inches or more of rain through tomorrow. If it continues to come closer, I'm sure that 12 inches will become "more". Originally we were supposed to get 10 inches. Looks like we'll double that. Right now, we have heavy rain and gusty winds. The rain is now forecast to continue through Friday.
Unfortunately for Houston, the northward drift means even more rain for them. They are supposed to get 24 inches through tomorrow. A creek near where my brother-in-law lives (a little bit west of Houston) is reportedly ready to overflow its banks. My brother-in-law told us that there were two tornadoes near him today. He hasn't had any damage to his home.
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06:30:32am
All my years at sea, dealing with projected tracks and living in Florida where paying attention not just to a storm's location but to the High pressure systems that affect where low pressure storms go ave just been tossed out the window.
I felt stupid until I saw the on screen meteorologists saying the same thing and that computer projections of hurricane tracks cannot account for this storm. The best guess is now, that by Monday sometime it will have curved and pass over Fort Bend County, south west of Houston.
We are in Richmond in western central Fort Bend County, about ten miles from the Brazos River which loops around this area. That means that after coming south from central Texas it passes to the east, then curves around the south of us, followed by a short jot north on our west side.If the current best guess plays out, the eye will pass to the east by a few miles. If further east, so much the better, (for us, anyway.). If it changes to the west, all hell may break loose here.
We are not on a hill, unless the local slight rise is promoted to small hill category.
So far so good.
Electric, obviously, is still on after a ten minute pause yesterday afternoon.
So we sit and wait. There is a spacious attic as a last defense should the river rise high enough and winds blow strong enough. The current tornadoes are, so far, short lived with one doing some damage about five miles away.
As I type this there is another tornado alert about ten miles to the east. There have been alerts all yesterday but only that one I mentioned.
I am personally believing the storm will move further east of Houston, but that is merely a CWAG, a sailors best Calculated Wild Assed Guess.
I am putting some of the Machin albums in a double bagged garbage, just in case. But there is no way of protecting what is a truck load of w/w albums and shoeboxes.
Now for the bad news.
I think we are high enough, but the people who bought expensive, river view homes along the scenic Brazos River, which meanders through the county are likely to experience what is called a 500 year flood.
What complicates that, not only is the direct local rain exceeding that predicted level, but the river is the drainage for thousands of acres of open land north of this area that lie in the river's floodplain so all that water from north of west Houston will slowly flow down what is otherwise a lazy river.
After the rain stops falling here, the river may still rise for several more days.
I've tried to explain that to several people with little more than a glazed eye effect. What falls here during the storm is bad enough to overflow the bayous, (Swampy lowlands near the rivers that usually hold excess water during heavy rains.) but what falls miles away in slightly higher ground has to go somewhere to get to the Gulf of Mexico. That is the river's job.
So we expect things to continue this way, high water even after the storm deteriorates over Arkansas next week.
That last Tornado alert was just cancelled with no touchdown. oops, they only moved it a few miles north. Haha another of natures practical jokes.
Earlier, the newscasts showed heavy flooding in Houston proper, mostly where an underpass has been built at a low level crossing under a major highway, and in East Houston where the heavy rains have been pouring all day. That is over as the flooding east of Houston has spread to the lower streets.
This house is in a rural suburb just to the west of Houston proper. and I think high enough.
That may change if the rains fall here incessantly. And in a few years when the area develops more, with parking lots and streets, rooftops and concrete driveways replacing open fields, the rains will not be able to hit soil and percolate into the underground aquifer, things may be different.
The warming changes in climate will also add more heat to the atmosphere and weather patterns, storms, both in winter and summer, will have more energy to dissipate, but for now, this area seems safe as long as you don't mind getting feet wet.
So, if I suddenly go silent, I am either sleeping, the electric failed or perhaps have been whisked away to another county like Dorothy, in a blast of high wind.
Charlie.
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09:04:42am
The light dawns.
It is getting exciting. The last tornado report touched ground about four miles east and passed as it moved north. I woke everyone up just in case. Mostly farmland til it passed closer to my Daughter in Law's sister's house. Heavy rain letting up to just a downpour. now down to just rainfall.
There are breaks between the torrential parts.
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I've been watching the news, and I hope everyone in the danger areas will be safe.
All the best
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10:10:02am
I hope all in Texas are safe and stay safe...
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To all of our friends in Texas, my thoughts are with you. My wife was chatting with a lady she knows in Houston, who lives by and with her dogs and she is surrounded by water. By the tone of her messages, she is scared, and understandably so. I pray that this will subside soon, although I heard that they could be in for 5 more days of rain?
All the best
Chimo
Bujutsu
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Charlie, until the storm gets away from the gulf, it will have an endless supply of water to dump on us. I see that you're area is getting pounded. It drops the heavy rain on your area, then the swirls bring the steady, moderate rain to us.
The strong wind and moderate to heavy rain has been non-stop here since yesterday afternoon. At 2:00 AM this morning, we lost power for the first time.
Large branches are down from the trees at the house across the street from me. I have many small branches down, and water is starting to accumulate and stand in my yard. If the rain doesn't change to a constant heavy downpour, we should be all right.
Being on the west side of these storms is the preferred location. The best is the south-west quadrant. It is mostly dry as most of the rain is gone from it at that time. The north-east quadrant is the worst as that's where the heaviest winds, rain and tornadoes are found.
Right now, we are directly north of the center of the storm. The closest it got to us thus far was about 80 miles. Now, it appears to be about 125 miles away. It should get a little further away, then the storm is supposed to turn northward again. We shall see where it goes after that.
Hang in there, Charlie. We may be able to visit each other by boat! Charlie, tell your neighbors that the Brazos River flows through Waco, which is north of me. All that water has yet to flow your way too.
All the water here runs to the Colorado River, which is going to cause trouble for people downstream. It's mouth is at Matagorda Bay. Those people certainly don't need any more water, but they're going to get it later this week nevertheless.
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Charlie,
Thank you for checking in with us. I am so worried about all of you. Take care and please stay dry.
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I'm in contact with former SOR member KHJ. He lives in an area of Houston that is flooded. He said that thus far everyone is fine, and his was the only block that hadn't flooded. However, the nearby bayou is back-filling, and there has been a little bit of non-flood water coming into his home.
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Thanks for sharing that, Michael. I was checking on the boards to see if he had left word with anyone, so I appreciate seeing that here. Please update us if or when you hear more.
Sending good thoughts his way.
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05:48:28pm
Thanks for the good wishes, and the concern, not just for me but for all those trapped in life here in this corner of Texas.
Well, with daybreak, the bands of intermittent heavy rain west of Houston lessened in intensity and seem to have spread further apart. My son's house here is dry and the street drainage is able to handle the flow. The development is almost complete and built around a "lake" that I believe is really an artificial retention pond. The level is higher but there appears to be enough room for double what already fell during last night and ran off in the drainage pipes.
A few houses did suffer a few shingles that took flight but not many.
East of Houston and the city itself is another story. Far too many people, often those who can least afford the damage, either decided to ride the storm out where they were most comfortable, or were between oblivious and insufficiently disturbed by news broadcasts of an oncoming storm that might deliver massive rain fall.
There is the old timer's syndrome; "Well, I been livin' here fur fifty years and I doan care what some smart-alecky weather lady says, thet there river gets high sometimes, but the water never comes anywhere near this property."
Most people have flood insurance and jobs that can cover missing a few days absence.
But there are also the people who have lost everything who live hand to mouth. No job, means no sick days, no personal days, no saved up vacation days, no work equals no pay. And then there are the elderly and disabled. So far there are few deaths,but the worst may yet be on its way for Monday and Tuesday.
The one bright spot is watching people respond, helping others.
So let us see what nightfall brings.
Charlie
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5:05 PM CDT
The wind has gotten stronger, and the rain continues. It hasn't stopped raining since early Saturday morning.
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Thanks for the updates. Keeping good thoughts for all affected.
Sally
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Charlie, Thanks for the detailed updates on the storm. Most of the news I've been seeing is mostly repetitive and vaque. I do hope you and other members as well as everyone in the path will not suffer as much as we have been led to believe might be the case. When it comes to water damage it takes a long time to survey the damage and know fully what has happened, so all we can do is wait it out and hope for the best for anyone affected
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Michael, thank you for the report about KHJ. I was also wondering how he was doing. There are so many that have been here and there that have not been able to check in and let us know all is well.
Charlie, love to hear the detailed reports. This is what we need, first hand experience. And a little humor never hurts.
Keep all in mind and hopefully Harvey will be gone soon.
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The storm is moving off to our east. The weather forecast has been dramatically changed to cloudy for today, and then sunny the rest of the week. Just a 20% chance of rain each day for this week. Looks like my area is going to be out of it.
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It looks like it is turning out to the Gulf to play with Louisiana and 'Bama. Good to hear the sun has come out.
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03:21:27pm
Yes it seems to have reached the coast line and will return ashore aiming further east than originally thought. That is good news for Houston where major highways have taken on the image of the Mississippi River. But it is bad news for towns ton the east of Houston as far as Louisiana. However its rain effects are reaching from the Austin/San Antonio area to the Louisiana line.
Last night here in Richmond it rained all night on and off, , mostly on with intermittent bands of torrential downpour. But the high winds have ceased.
This development is built around what they call a "lake, that I believe is a glorified retention pond, or as we called such things in New York, a sump. The level is now within inches of overflow. When that happens the streets and drainage lines will fill and perhaps some front yards. Each house is built with about a ten or twelve inch slope to the streets.
There is a very large field adjacent that I have convinced myself is a few inches lower than the local streets.
Mean while a few miles away there are two reservoirs that the people here refer to as Bayous. They were set aside for river overflows by building a dam. They are fed by water from a series of creeks and rivers from the north and are full enough that the Army Corps of Engineers who fear the dams being topped and destroyed which will release a catastrophic wash through downtown Houston leading to the East side of the city which had been the locus of most of the weather reports and flooding for the last three days.
Charlie.
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I saw that on the news. Those reservoirs drain into the Buffalo Bayou. In a couple of days the Buffalo Bayou is expected to crest at 73 feet above flood level. Remember with Harvey, they talked about a 12 foot tidal surge! That is simply unimaginable.
In my area, it is windy, but no rain today despite some very dark gray clouds that swooped by. Tomorrow is garbage pickup. I managed to get the front yard cleaned up. A nice pile of deadfall that was. I can't get into or out of the backyard right now due to the soggy ground by the gate. I'll take care of the branches that are down there when the ground can support hauling heavy branches out of there.
I'm sure the wind will bring down some more branches, but that's expected. Just, please, no more rain!
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08:12:11pm
For us here just west of Houston the torrential rain seems to have decreased with periods of non-rain equal to periodic light to medium. I had to stop typing before as I was dozing off at the keyboard.
My son and I had gone in the truck to check out a grocery store to replenish some of the supplies we were consuming and perhaps to get the lay of the land. No fuel stations open, which I understand, Wal-Mart closed with a small lake in its giant parking lot, marked off with five or six autos illustrating the four foot depth to anyone not blind.
But a few miles away the Krogers lot was at least half full of vehicles so we stopped.
Inside we found a polite mob scene, people rushing hither and yon, but politely using "Please","Excuse me", "Thank you." And as I reached from the wheel chair, "Can I get that for you ?," being heard far more often than I recall during non emergency shopping. Busy as Black Friday at a Macy's entrance. The shelves were becoming emptied quickly.
I picked out some fresh salad components while Ed got eggs, fresh milk for the baby and bags of dog food.
Many shoppers were already checking out so lines were developing from the checkout counters down the aisles toward the back of the store, twenty or so people and carts on all available counters.
We pick out a few more things that have been running low, and with the flooding likely to block further deliveries for a big part of the week we might have run out of. Ed mentioned that the lines are getting longer so he goes off to pick a line to wait on while I gather up a few more necessities. There are no large or family size ridged potato chips anywhere. Meanwhile lines have quickly extended to the back of the store where the walls are lined with chill boxes. They are now curling around the meat boxes and other sale counters. Paper product aisles are virtually stripped bare. Apparently few home emergency planners thought much about toilet paper being needed during a flood.
(Note to Noah, plan for three months at sea.)
My son chose the self checkout line since it is usually faster, only to discover that it extends down one aisle, does a "180" reversing back to the service area and then snakes around the fresh vegetable counters into the bakery department.
This is a big supermarket with aisles wide enough to handle the doubled lines. So once I find him and join we spend more than an hour on line. All available shopping carts were in use. Almost all those plastic shopping baskets were in use as well. People are commandeering cardboard half boxes from the swiftly emptying shelves to hold their items while they stand and wait.
But most people still remain polite and somewhat jocular, perhaps the thrill of a full shopping cart smothers the "Me first" attitude we see so often at highway merge lanes on a good day. One fellow with a box loses his grip and items fall to the floor with three of four customers nearby helping pick them up and repack his box, the lady behind him offers to let him rest the box on the end of the cart she has pretty much filled with her items.
Finally we are checked out. At the front door the manager has blocked entry and created a line that extends out to the side through the area where shopping carts are usually mustered, out of the shelter of the building around the wall and back, not just to the doorway but completely along the sidewalk down to, or past, the stores other front entrance. As one person or couple leave, an equal number is allowed in. He tells me the store is at capacity. Meanwhile the rain has continued to fall, not extremely hard as had been the case for several days, but intermittently light to heavy. Umbrellas overlap one another up and down the line.
All told, the shopping expedition has taken about three hours for items that would usually take a half an hour. At last we get back, unload and Ed and Billy are off to help ferry people to shelters. The worst of the rain squalls seem to have left west Houston but the East side where the worst flooding occurred is still being heavy to torrential as we see on the news shows.
For some crazy reason, when I awoke from my nap this song keeps repeating itself in my head;
(Ah, ah) Oh, no, don't let the rain come down
(Ah, ah) Oh, no, don't let the rain come down
(Ah, ah) Oh, no, don't let the rain come down
My roof's got a hole in it and I might drown
Oh, yes, my roof's got a hole in it and I might drown
There was a crooked man and he had a crooked smile
Had a crooked sixpence and he walked a crooked mile
Had a crooked cat and he had a crooked mouse
They all lived together in a crooked little house
Chorus
Well, this crooked little man and his crooked little smile
Took his crooked sixpence and he walked a crooked mile
Bought some crooked nails and a crooked little bat
Tried to fix his roof with a rat-tat-tat-tat-tat
Chorus
Now this crooked little man and his crooked cat and mouse
They all live together in a crooked little house
Has a crooked door with a crooked little latch
Has a crooked roof with a crooked little patch
I must have been having one hell-of-a dream.
Well we are fortunate that this house is dry and remains well above the local flooding level. The retention pond (sump) is still full with the level inches, at most, from overflowing into the streets and I hope flowing into a neighboring multi acre field.
Thanks for all the good wishes,
Charlie.
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Charlie,
It's good to hear you are OK. It's amazing that the workers at the store came into work. I am sure they also have their lives in turmoil. It's great you can still have a sense of humor through this. Stay safe and keep us informed.
Vince
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Charlie, stay high and dry.
We had sun this afternoon. One thing I noticed when I was out driving around to take care of some errands I couldn't do since last Thursday was that the gas stations around here are running out of gas to sell. They can't get any shipments. Good thing all our vehicles are full or almost full.
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Charlie you and Michael provide so much information it gives the rest of us a much clearer picture of just how bad it is there. I hope you all stay safe and dry.
I'm really happy to hear how helpful the people in the store were. There's a lot to be said staying calm, and helping each other in trying times.
All the best to everyone in the path of this storm.
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"One thing I noticed when I was out driving around to take care of some errands I couldn't do since last Thursday was that the gas stations around here are running out of gas to sell. They can't get any shipments. Good thing all our vehicles are full or almost full."
Not only are the refineries in Houston shut down, all Underground Storage Tanks (i.e. gas stations) in the flood area are potentially contaminated with water. Gasoline may be difficult to find in Texas and expensive elsewhere. Everyone from coast-to-coast should conserve as best you can for a week or two to help our neighbors in Texas!
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The price of gas here in NC and VA has started to rise but it does almost after any event (real or imagined).
This whole event is playing out differently than with Katrina.
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07:49:10am
" .... potentially contaminated with water. ..."
Potentially, however the subterranean tanks have sealing covers under the ground level plates you see from your car and if they have been closed properly water cannot get in past the seal to contaminate the fuel.
Each gas seller had a twelve or eighteen foot pole to "stick" the tanks to verify the level. They also should have a jar of special hydrosensitive white paste that turns bright blue if it contacts water.
Usually the tanks are checked morning and evening, plus before and after a delivery tanker brings fuel. Any water in excess of about four inches will be a major headache as gas engines will stall and the seller will pay for towing, draining and if the water does get past the fuel filter, replacement of components. An expense and headache no dealer wants.
Over the ten years I operated a Shell Station I never let the condensation in my tanks exceed a half inch. I'd call Shell's maintenance and before the end of day they would send a truck to pump the bottom two of three inches.
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Also, most gas stations have a computer monitoring system (TEC-1000 model or newer) which monitors liquid levels in the tank (gas & water levels) via a probe suspended in the tank. DEQ (or equivalent state agency) and the EPA require at least a once weekly 4-hour overnight leak detection test performed by the unit to detect any product decrease (indicating a leakage) or product increase (indicating surface water infiltration due to a bad gasket seal).
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07:40:27pm
Computer Monitoring ??? Well that is after my time, although I think I'd still use the measuring pole and detection paste on occasion, just to be sure I received whan the invoice indicated.
A full load cost $8,000 to $10,000 then, so I imagine well over $20,000 a load these days. Too much at risk without physically checking on the computer reasonably frequent.
The stories that people hear about water being sold as gasoline are predominantly Urban Legends, passed around and around and sometimes believed. Should an underground tank become contaminated the shop owner would know pretty quick since few modern fuel injection vehicles can drive more than a half mile, if that, walking distance back to the gas station if cell phones are not available. It pays to be cautious, but if here is water in he fuel you are sold, you will be lucky if the car get out of the gas station and onto the roadway.
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Most underground storage tanks have SOME water in them, just due to condensation. The water settles to the bottom and can be removed if it becomes significant. Modern tanks and monitoring take care of all that, but the entire system, including pumps, and especially vents, may not maintain their integrity if they are covered by 5' of water!
I avoid filling up when there is a tanker at the station since dropping a load of fuel will stir up the water at the bottom of the tank. It's not a lot of water, but there is some, usually. I like to give it a few minutes to settle back down to the bottom.
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I managed a Valero station for a short while. We had the computer monitoring system. The water alarm would go off at 1 1/2 inches. That required sticking the tank to verify. Fuel delivery drivers were required to stick the tanks prior to dropping fuel. The stores were required to stick the tanks on Mondays.
If 1 1/2 inches of water were verified, it required shutting down the pumps, and notifying corporate. A crew would come out to remove the water, and examine the tanks to make sure that all was well.
I have a high level of faith when buying fuel at corporate stores. It's the mom and pop independent convenience stores that sell gas where you should take care.
Valero, for example, has a guarantee that if there fuels damage one's engine, they will repair/replace as needed.
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I was a victim of water contamination at gas station just a few months ago. I was driving my wife's car back from a long day trip when I stopped to fill the tank. Ten minutes after I left, the car started hesitating on acceleration. Things got worse and by the time I drove into town the car was crawling and stalling. I actually managed to make it to my front door where it died entirely. It had to be towed to the repair shop, and it took my mechanic - an amazing diagnostician, as I can attest - long time to determine what was wrong. Final repair cost: several hundred dollars. The gas station was a modern BP station.
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If you fill up your tank and the car starts sputtering, immediately head to the closest auto parts store if it's nearby. Ask them what they recommend as a fuel additive for suspected water in the gas (we used STP many years ago). If you aren't near a store, stop driving immediately and call for a ride to a auto parts store. The cars I grew up with would dump small amounts of condensation along with unburned fuel into the manifold and out the pipes, and with a simple carburetor and breaker point ignition system, that worked fine. Modern cars have onboard diagnostics that "learn" how to adjust fuel flow to the injectors, etc., and they may try to "learn" how to burn water, and then you have a big repair bill.
Water in your gas is rare, but it does happen. It could be condensation in the tanker that delivered the fuel, or maybe the hoses on the tanker they use to drop the fuel were lined with condensation. Maybe there was only 1/2" of water at the bottom of the tank, but when the tanker dropped its fuel the water got mixed up. Maybe there was condensation on the walls of the tank that didn't show up on the digital report of water in the tank and until the fuel drop was "invisible". There are many ways to get water into your fuel and most of them are no fault of the station. In fact, you can also be partially to blame if you consistently run your tank close to empty and only put in a few gallons. All that empty air space is just inviting condensation to join the party!
I used to have a good text book on USTs, but I can't locate it today. I did quite a bit of research on this for Convenience Stores about 20 years ago.
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That's good advice about stopping immediately and getting an additive. Water contamination was so far from my mind I didn't even think of that.
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I stopped for gas at a Wawa corporate station in New Jersey on Christmas day. The car started missing but made it to our destination. The next day it did the same on our way home. Only it got worse as we drove. I had burned off about a half tank at that point, so I stopped and got gas. That solved the issue. I assumed it was water in the gas.
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"That's good advice about stopping immediately and getting an additive. Water contamination was so far from my mind I didn't even think of that."
Same here, until it happened to me. Now I will act more quickly.
"I had burned off about a half tank at that point, so I stopped and got gas. That solved the issue."
That's a good point. If, for some reason (like you are traveling through a state with high gas prices), you decide to NOT fill up and experience sputtering, in addition to an additive you can also put in some more fuel from another station. Unless the water is coming from the distributor and the same distributor services both stations and dropped loads on the same day, the second location is likely to be "clean".
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Back to the topic at hand, is there any update on fuel availability in Texas from our eyes on the ground? From the outside the response at the federal, state, and local level seems impressive given the magnitude of the flooding.
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In the Austin area, Timewise stores, branded with Exxon fuels, have now obtained fuel shipments after being out for about five days. In the news today, it was reported that 7-11 stores are running out of gas, and there is no word when they'll be able to get more. Most 7-11 stores in this area use Exxon branded fuels. So, I don't know how the other chain got gas, unless they're finding fuel from other sources.
The news warned today that the fuel supply is going to get tight for a while as the refineries along the gulf coast are all shut down.
I don't think that Valero has been affected as their refinery is located a little bit east of San Antonio. I believe it is operating, and they get their crude from Texas wells. The others get much of their crude off tankers, and with the ports closed, those ships are sitting idle with their cargo.
Now there's Irma sneaking its way westward from Africa. It is supposed to become a major hurricane before it hits the islands and Caribbean north of Venezuela. We'll just have to keep an eye out for it.
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So much for what I said yesterday...
Today's news said that gas prices nationwide have risen on average 4 cents a gallon.
Here's the per gallon pricing in my locale for regular grade gas:
Monday = $2.09
Yesterday = $2.19
Today $2.35 or $2.29
I noted the status of several gas stations on my trip to and from the post office:
two Shell stations - no gas
one Exxon - had gas
two 7-11 - no gas
one independent - no gas
major grocery store - had gas
one Valero - only had regular grade gas
Of course the price really doesn't matter if the stores don't have any gas to sell...
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Howdy from Corpus Christi,
Have not been able to post until today. Lost power Friday at 8 PM and did not return until this morning until about 9 AM. The eye of Harvey went ashore about 15 miles east of me which means I was on the west side, the least destructive. Small towns to my east were devastated. I had winds of about 100 MPH, but all I lost was my 18 year old fence and some leaves and branches off my big oak tree. Did not realize how much I used, needed electricity or the internet until I lost it. Have a generator, so was able to save the freezer and fridge. Did not get the heavy rains that folks in Houston or other parts of Texas received, but did get a good 12 inches.
Praying for those people in Houston and surrounding areas. Have relatives, friends and family of friends who have been flooded out and are seeking higher ground.
Gas prices in Corpus have gone from $2.09 to $2.19, but does not appear to be any shortages.
Celebrated my 53 wedding anniversary on Monday the 28th with a candle light dinner of pork chops and rice-a-roni cooked on my gas grill. No air conditioning, but at least we had each other and were safe.
Thank everyone for the well wishes for all the Harvey victums.
With best regards, Mel
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12:33:25pm
Keep in mind that there is a difference between "price gauging, and reacting to increased costs. Costs are additive, meaning a distributor may have to increase the tank wagon price, the trucker may pay more for diesel fuel to get to the station and may have to follow a more circuitous route, and finally the vendor may have increased costs, for instance, paying a bit more to entice employees to either work overtime, or come to work through the watery mayhem in the first place.
The driver who pulls in and only sees the final price is not likely aware of these factors, but they may be added in at every level.
It has been my experience that while local officials may respond to public outcry by bravely declaring they will toss gougers from the town hall's tower, except for a few really egregious offenders, once they investigate they find they have no case.
Thee things happened when I had the Shell outlet, but they investigators soon backed off and went on to more fertile fields.
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Today, more stations are out of gas. Those that have it, the price is up to $2.55. The price is rising 20 cents a day.
People are posting on social media when they find a station with gas. The next thing, a hundred cars are lined up on the road waiting to get gas. Of course, like locusts, they suck everything dry, and then move on to the next station that has gas. Drain that, and those still wanting to buy gas move on to the next, etc. They are blocking the roads and parking lots.
I even saw a line start to form at a gas station that was still under construction and not even open. The construction crew had a couple of trucks parked at the pumps. People saw that and converged on the place.
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Gas prices are based upon market price and not necessarily availability.
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01:06:39pm
" ... Gas prices are based upon market price and not necessarily availability. ..."
What complicates understanding of price fluctuation is that much of the pricing is based on speculation, investments and futures.
A distribute may have entered into a contract two months ago to delver so many millions of gallons/barrels of petroleum product by a day that will come in another two weeks (A 90 day contract.)
The price may have been lower at the time and thought to be even less by the due date.
Now he is shopping around to suppler trying to find supplies to fill that order, but the disruption is causing those bulk prices to skyrocket, based on the effects of the storm, which can be seen and the actions of competitors who are also shopping.
That whole market is very complicated even when supply, demand and sources are relatively stable.
Trying to understand it is Excedrin # 54 ++
Having big money tied up in that market is tempting suicide.
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Gas is simply not a money-maker, it's a drawing card. When I owned the store, for 32 years, I had to replace gas systems twice. In 1987 it cost $43,000.00 for two new tanks, three gas pumps, a new light fixture, a TEC-1000 monitoring system, inside monitoring and pre-setting consoles, all electrical and labor. In 2009, due to DEQ updated requirements , it cost $158,000.00 for 1 new tank, 1 new pump, updated computer monitoring system (TEC-2000), new presetting console, all electrical and labor. I tried to average a 10 cent profit over cost. Payback on that last system based solely on the sale of gas was never realized the last 7 years I owned the store. But it brought many people to the store to buy other things. Two other stores in the area decided not (or they couldn't) to continue selling gas. One lasted 2 years the other 3 years. The other store in the area updated their system and they are still operating. Also, my price realized at the sale was much more than without being able to sell gas.
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Fuel pricing in Australia is AUD$1.30 per litre or AUD$5.90 per gallon. It is not unreasonable to expect, under the rules of supply and demand, increased fuel rates during natural disasters as long of course as the government are there to police gouging.
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In the UK the current price for petrol (unleaded ) is about £1.20 per LITRE which is about £6.00 per (Imperial) gallon, at todays exchange rate probably about USD 6.00 per US gallon. I can't be exact as there are 2 calculations involved. Even at higher prices you are still paying less than half we are. In the south of England at a small filling station you can pay considerably more. Supermarket petrol is the cheapest,but best avoided if you have a high performance car, as it is often of inferior quality, although British Standard accreditation should mean that it is uniform.
I was interested to see on UK TV that there has been some criticism about the decision not to evacuate Houston. I am sure that the critics have absolutely no idea how difficult it would have been to carry out such an evacuation - and where do you put several million people at a few days notice? We have all seen "disaster" or "armageddon" movies where panic evacuations have taken place and the gridlock which would ensue. Can you imagine the casualties if the hurricane had struck while everyone was in a traffic jam trying to leave the city? I really don't think that a mass evacuation was ( or is ) feasible and practical.
I do really feel for the people affected ( and those affected in Southern Asia),and I have to confess that the increasing frequency of such extreme events is quite worrying not only in the long term ( which I won't see ) but in the short term ( which I might well).
Malcolm
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Gas prices jumped in the Pennsylvania to New Jersey area. Average so far is about a quarter a gallon, gas was $2.899 when I looked this morning. No doubt will be over $3 this week.
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Gas prices in Europe are much higher than they are in the USA, because the taxes on the gasoline are much higher.
The information below is from the "Tax Foundation".
The U.S. combined gas tax rate is actually a lot lower than rates in other industrialized countries. According to data from the OECD, the average gas tax rate among the 34 advanced economies is $2.62 per gallon. In fact, the U.S.’s gas tax is the second lowest (Mexico is the only country without a gas tax) and has a rate less than half of that of the next highest country, Canada, which has a rate of $1.25 per gallon.
2013 - The average tax (federal and state) per gallon of gas in the United States is $0.53. In the UK (ranked 5th highest), the tax is $3.44.
Remove the taxes, and a gallon of gas in the USA costs $2.02 (based on $2.55 per gallon). and in the UK it would be $2.56 (based on $6.00 per imperial gallon from malcolm's post). As you see, gasoline prices are pretty much the same. It is the taxes charged that make the difference.
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Tax his land, Tax his bed, Tax the table At which he’s fed.
Tax his tractor, Tax his mule, Teach him taxes Are the rule.
Tax his work, Tax his pay, He works for peanuts Anyway!
Tax his cow, Tax his goat, Tax his pants, Tax his coat.
Tax his ties, Tax his shirt, Tax his work, Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco, Tax his drink, Tax him if he tries to think.
Tax his cigars, Tax his beers, If he cries, then tax his tears.
Tax his car, Tax his gas, Find other ways To tax his ass.
Tax all he has Then let him know, That you won’t be done till he has no dough.
When he screams and hollers Then tax him more,
Tax him till he’s good and sore.
Then tax his coffin, Tax his grave, Tax the sod in Which he’s laid.
Put these words Upon his tomb, ‘Taxes drove me to my doom.. . ‘
When he’s gone, Do not relax, Its time to apply The inheritance tax.
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This thread has been split, moving 3 posts onto a new Thread titled:"Hurricane Irma and FLorida"
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This hurricane is going to be a real pain. I'm hoping all who's affected stays safe. Please check in when all is well.
Good luck and stay dry.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
We got home from Kentucky late last night. Went there to watch the eclipse. Now we are home to watch the hurricane. The rain just started, so we shall see how deep it gets. I'm at the edge of the projected extreme weather. We could get up to 10 inches of rain. I live on the top of a hill. In similar downpours that kept up for several days, we have had little flooding other than and inch or two of standing water. Other people down the hill haven't been as fortunate.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Here's a link to the weather radar for Texas, if you want to check on the storm's progress. We do have some members who live in Corpus Christi and elsewhere along the coast.
Mel, hope all is going to go well with you, and you were able to get out of town!
https://www.wunderground.com/weather-radar/united-states-regional/tx/san-antonio
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
We are just about 140 miles directly north of the eye. Lots of rain coming from the large outer band of the storm. The radar shows an endless steam of precipitation coming right up t us from the gulf. As long as the yellows and reds stay away, we will get soaked with local flooding in those areas that tend to flood. We also will keep away from the higher winds, torrential downpours and possible tornadoes.
The forecast has been changed to where we are now expected to get up to 15 inches of rain over the next few days. If the storm doesn't move much, we could get even more.
I'll have plenty of time to work on stamps and run trains!
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
As long as the power doesn't go out! Any trouble with that yet?
How far away are you from Victoria? About the same, 140 miles?
Stay dry and no growing web toes through all this.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Right after I posted the message, we lost internet and TV. So far, the electricity has gone out only for a couple of seconds.
Now the wind is picking up considerably. Many small branches are down. We're in-between rain, which thus far has been steady, but on the light side. That will give the water time to run off. We can't handle much water as a few feet below the top soil is limestone.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
What about the critters? Snakes and creepy-crawly things like that?
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
I have a coon hound. He eats anything that comes into the yard. The members of the rodent family seem to be hunkered down elsewhere for the moment.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
I just sent a PM to Charlie, and it dawned on me that he lives near Houston. Hope all is well over there!
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Charlie sent me a reply. He's doing fine.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
I just saw that we've had more rain today (5.26") than Houston (4.1")! The now tropical storm is drifting northerly, and is about 100 miles away. They say the worst is yet to come, and we're supposed to get an additional 12 inches or more of rain through tomorrow. If it continues to come closer, I'm sure that 12 inches will become "more". Originally we were supposed to get 10 inches. Looks like we'll double that. Right now, we have heavy rain and gusty winds. The rain is now forecast to continue through Friday.
Unfortunately for Houston, the northward drift means even more rain for them. They are supposed to get 24 inches through tomorrow. A creek near where my brother-in-law lives (a little bit west of Houston) is reportedly ready to overflow its banks. My brother-in-law told us that there were two tornadoes near him today. He hasn't had any damage to his home.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
27 Aug 2017
06:30:32am
re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
All my years at sea, dealing with projected tracks and living in Florida where paying attention not just to a storm's location but to the High pressure systems that affect where low pressure storms go ave just been tossed out the window.
I felt stupid until I saw the on screen meteorologists saying the same thing and that computer projections of hurricane tracks cannot account for this storm. The best guess is now, that by Monday sometime it will have curved and pass over Fort Bend County, south west of Houston.
We are in Richmond in western central Fort Bend County, about ten miles from the Brazos River which loops around this area. That means that after coming south from central Texas it passes to the east, then curves around the south of us, followed by a short jot north on our west side.If the current best guess plays out, the eye will pass to the east by a few miles. If further east, so much the better, (for us, anyway.). If it changes to the west, all hell may break loose here.
We are not on a hill, unless the local slight rise is promoted to small hill category.
So far so good.
Electric, obviously, is still on after a ten minute pause yesterday afternoon.
So we sit and wait. There is a spacious attic as a last defense should the river rise high enough and winds blow strong enough. The current tornadoes are, so far, short lived with one doing some damage about five miles away.
As I type this there is another tornado alert about ten miles to the east. There have been alerts all yesterday but only that one I mentioned.
I am personally believing the storm will move further east of Houston, but that is merely a CWAG, a sailors best Calculated Wild Assed Guess.
I am putting some of the Machin albums in a double bagged garbage, just in case. But there is no way of protecting what is a truck load of w/w albums and shoeboxes.
Now for the bad news.
I think we are high enough, but the people who bought expensive, river view homes along the scenic Brazos River, which meanders through the county are likely to experience what is called a 500 year flood.
What complicates that, not only is the direct local rain exceeding that predicted level, but the river is the drainage for thousands of acres of open land north of this area that lie in the river's floodplain so all that water from north of west Houston will slowly flow down what is otherwise a lazy river.
After the rain stops falling here, the river may still rise for several more days.
I've tried to explain that to several people with little more than a glazed eye effect. What falls here during the storm is bad enough to overflow the bayous, (Swampy lowlands near the rivers that usually hold excess water during heavy rains.) but what falls miles away in slightly higher ground has to go somewhere to get to the Gulf of Mexico. That is the river's job.
So we expect things to continue this way, high water even after the storm deteriorates over Arkansas next week.
That last Tornado alert was just cancelled with no touchdown. oops, they only moved it a few miles north. Haha another of natures practical jokes.
Earlier, the newscasts showed heavy flooding in Houston proper, mostly where an underpass has been built at a low level crossing under a major highway, and in East Houston where the heavy rains have been pouring all day. That is over as the flooding east of Houston has spread to the lower streets.
This house is in a rural suburb just to the west of Houston proper. and I think high enough.
That may change if the rains fall here incessantly. And in a few years when the area develops more, with parking lots and streets, rooftops and concrete driveways replacing open fields, the rains will not be able to hit soil and percolate into the underground aquifer, things may be different.
The warming changes in climate will also add more heat to the atmosphere and weather patterns, storms, both in winter and summer, will have more energy to dissipate, but for now, this area seems safe as long as you don't mind getting feet wet.
So, if I suddenly go silent, I am either sleeping, the electric failed or perhaps have been whisked away to another county like Dorothy, in a blast of high wind.
Charlie.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
27 Aug 2017
09:04:42am
re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
The light dawns.
It is getting exciting. The last tornado report touched ground about four miles east and passed as it moved north. I woke everyone up just in case. Mostly farmland til it passed closer to my Daughter in Law's sister's house. Heavy rain letting up to just a downpour. now down to just rainfall.
There are breaks between the torrential parts.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
I've been watching the news, and I hope everyone in the danger areas will be safe.
All the best
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webmaster for the ISWSC http://iswsc.org and ATA http://www.americantopicalassn.org
27 Aug 2017
10:10:02am
re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
I hope all in Texas are safe and stay safe...
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
To all of our friends in Texas, my thoughts are with you. My wife was chatting with a lady she knows in Houston, who lives by and with her dogs and she is surrounded by water. By the tone of her messages, she is scared, and understandably so. I pray that this will subside soon, although I heard that they could be in for 5 more days of rain?
All the best
Chimo
Bujutsu
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Charlie, until the storm gets away from the gulf, it will have an endless supply of water to dump on us. I see that you're area is getting pounded. It drops the heavy rain on your area, then the swirls bring the steady, moderate rain to us.
The strong wind and moderate to heavy rain has been non-stop here since yesterday afternoon. At 2:00 AM this morning, we lost power for the first time.
Large branches are down from the trees at the house across the street from me. I have many small branches down, and water is starting to accumulate and stand in my yard. If the rain doesn't change to a constant heavy downpour, we should be all right.
Being on the west side of these storms is the preferred location. The best is the south-west quadrant. It is mostly dry as most of the rain is gone from it at that time. The north-east quadrant is the worst as that's where the heaviest winds, rain and tornadoes are found.
Right now, we are directly north of the center of the storm. The closest it got to us thus far was about 80 miles. Now, it appears to be about 125 miles away. It should get a little further away, then the storm is supposed to turn northward again. We shall see where it goes after that.
Hang in there, Charlie. We may be able to visit each other by boat! Charlie, tell your neighbors that the Brazos River flows through Waco, which is north of me. All that water has yet to flow your way too.
All the water here runs to the Colorado River, which is going to cause trouble for people downstream. It's mouth is at Matagorda Bay. Those people certainly don't need any more water, but they're going to get it later this week nevertheless.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Charlie,
Thank you for checking in with us. I am so worried about all of you. Take care and please stay dry.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
I'm in contact with former SOR member KHJ. He lives in an area of Houston that is flooded. He said that thus far everyone is fine, and his was the only block that hadn't flooded. However, the nearby bayou is back-filling, and there has been a little bit of non-flood water coming into his home.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Thanks for sharing that, Michael. I was checking on the boards to see if he had left word with anyone, so I appreciate seeing that here. Please update us if or when you hear more.
Sending good thoughts his way.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
27 Aug 2017
05:48:28pm
re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Thanks for the good wishes, and the concern, not just for me but for all those trapped in life here in this corner of Texas.
Well, with daybreak, the bands of intermittent heavy rain west of Houston lessened in intensity and seem to have spread further apart. My son's house here is dry and the street drainage is able to handle the flow. The development is almost complete and built around a "lake" that I believe is really an artificial retention pond. The level is higher but there appears to be enough room for double what already fell during last night and ran off in the drainage pipes.
A few houses did suffer a few shingles that took flight but not many.
East of Houston and the city itself is another story. Far too many people, often those who can least afford the damage, either decided to ride the storm out where they were most comfortable, or were between oblivious and insufficiently disturbed by news broadcasts of an oncoming storm that might deliver massive rain fall.
There is the old timer's syndrome; "Well, I been livin' here fur fifty years and I doan care what some smart-alecky weather lady says, thet there river gets high sometimes, but the water never comes anywhere near this property."
Most people have flood insurance and jobs that can cover missing a few days absence.
But there are also the people who have lost everything who live hand to mouth. No job, means no sick days, no personal days, no saved up vacation days, no work equals no pay. And then there are the elderly and disabled. So far there are few deaths,but the worst may yet be on its way for Monday and Tuesday.
The one bright spot is watching people respond, helping others.
So let us see what nightfall brings.
Charlie
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
5:05 PM CDT
The wind has gotten stronger, and the rain continues. It hasn't stopped raining since early Saturday morning.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Thanks for the updates. Keeping good thoughts for all affected.
Sally
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Charlie, Thanks for the detailed updates on the storm. Most of the news I've been seeing is mostly repetitive and vaque. I do hope you and other members as well as everyone in the path will not suffer as much as we have been led to believe might be the case. When it comes to water damage it takes a long time to survey the damage and know fully what has happened, so all we can do is wait it out and hope for the best for anyone affected
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Michael, thank you for the report about KHJ. I was also wondering how he was doing. There are so many that have been here and there that have not been able to check in and let us know all is well.
Charlie, love to hear the detailed reports. This is what we need, first hand experience. And a little humor never hurts.
Keep all in mind and hopefully Harvey will be gone soon.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
The storm is moving off to our east. The weather forecast has been dramatically changed to cloudy for today, and then sunny the rest of the week. Just a 20% chance of rain each day for this week. Looks like my area is going to be out of it.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
It looks like it is turning out to the Gulf to play with Louisiana and 'Bama. Good to hear the sun has come out.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
28 Aug 2017
03:21:27pm
re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Yes it seems to have reached the coast line and will return ashore aiming further east than originally thought. That is good news for Houston where major highways have taken on the image of the Mississippi River. But it is bad news for towns ton the east of Houston as far as Louisiana. However its rain effects are reaching from the Austin/San Antonio area to the Louisiana line.
Last night here in Richmond it rained all night on and off, , mostly on with intermittent bands of torrential downpour. But the high winds have ceased.
This development is built around what they call a "lake, that I believe is a glorified retention pond, or as we called such things in New York, a sump. The level is now within inches of overflow. When that happens the streets and drainage lines will fill and perhaps some front yards. Each house is built with about a ten or twelve inch slope to the streets.
There is a very large field adjacent that I have convinced myself is a few inches lower than the local streets.
Mean while a few miles away there are two reservoirs that the people here refer to as Bayous. They were set aside for river overflows by building a dam. They are fed by water from a series of creeks and rivers from the north and are full enough that the Army Corps of Engineers who fear the dams being topped and destroyed which will release a catastrophic wash through downtown Houston leading to the East side of the city which had been the locus of most of the weather reports and flooding for the last three days.
Charlie.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
I saw that on the news. Those reservoirs drain into the Buffalo Bayou. In a couple of days the Buffalo Bayou is expected to crest at 73 feet above flood level. Remember with Harvey, they talked about a 12 foot tidal surge! That is simply unimaginable.
In my area, it is windy, but no rain today despite some very dark gray clouds that swooped by. Tomorrow is garbage pickup. I managed to get the front yard cleaned up. A nice pile of deadfall that was. I can't get into or out of the backyard right now due to the soggy ground by the gate. I'll take care of the branches that are down there when the ground can support hauling heavy branches out of there.
I'm sure the wind will bring down some more branches, but that's expected. Just, please, no more rain!
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
28 Aug 2017
08:12:11pm
re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
For us here just west of Houston the torrential rain seems to have decreased with periods of non-rain equal to periodic light to medium. I had to stop typing before as I was dozing off at the keyboard.
My son and I had gone in the truck to check out a grocery store to replenish some of the supplies we were consuming and perhaps to get the lay of the land. No fuel stations open, which I understand, Wal-Mart closed with a small lake in its giant parking lot, marked off with five or six autos illustrating the four foot depth to anyone not blind.
But a few miles away the Krogers lot was at least half full of vehicles so we stopped.
Inside we found a polite mob scene, people rushing hither and yon, but politely using "Please","Excuse me", "Thank you." And as I reached from the wheel chair, "Can I get that for you ?," being heard far more often than I recall during non emergency shopping. Busy as Black Friday at a Macy's entrance. The shelves were becoming emptied quickly.
I picked out some fresh salad components while Ed got eggs, fresh milk for the baby and bags of dog food.
Many shoppers were already checking out so lines were developing from the checkout counters down the aisles toward the back of the store, twenty or so people and carts on all available counters.
We pick out a few more things that have been running low, and with the flooding likely to block further deliveries for a big part of the week we might have run out of. Ed mentioned that the lines are getting longer so he goes off to pick a line to wait on while I gather up a few more necessities. There are no large or family size ridged potato chips anywhere. Meanwhile lines have quickly extended to the back of the store where the walls are lined with chill boxes. They are now curling around the meat boxes and other sale counters. Paper product aisles are virtually stripped bare. Apparently few home emergency planners thought much about toilet paper being needed during a flood.
(Note to Noah, plan for three months at sea.)
My son chose the self checkout line since it is usually faster, only to discover that it extends down one aisle, does a "180" reversing back to the service area and then snakes around the fresh vegetable counters into the bakery department.
This is a big supermarket with aisles wide enough to handle the doubled lines. So once I find him and join we spend more than an hour on line. All available shopping carts were in use. Almost all those plastic shopping baskets were in use as well. People are commandeering cardboard half boxes from the swiftly emptying shelves to hold their items while they stand and wait.
But most people still remain polite and somewhat jocular, perhaps the thrill of a full shopping cart smothers the "Me first" attitude we see so often at highway merge lanes on a good day. One fellow with a box loses his grip and items fall to the floor with three of four customers nearby helping pick them up and repack his box, the lady behind him offers to let him rest the box on the end of the cart she has pretty much filled with her items.
Finally we are checked out. At the front door the manager has blocked entry and created a line that extends out to the side through the area where shopping carts are usually mustered, out of the shelter of the building around the wall and back, not just to the doorway but completely along the sidewalk down to, or past, the stores other front entrance. As one person or couple leave, an equal number is allowed in. He tells me the store is at capacity. Meanwhile the rain has continued to fall, not extremely hard as had been the case for several days, but intermittently light to heavy. Umbrellas overlap one another up and down the line.
All told, the shopping expedition has taken about three hours for items that would usually take a half an hour. At last we get back, unload and Ed and Billy are off to help ferry people to shelters. The worst of the rain squalls seem to have left west Houston but the East side where the worst flooding occurred is still being heavy to torrential as we see on the news shows.
For some crazy reason, when I awoke from my nap this song keeps repeating itself in my head;
(Ah, ah) Oh, no, don't let the rain come down
(Ah, ah) Oh, no, don't let the rain come down
(Ah, ah) Oh, no, don't let the rain come down
My roof's got a hole in it and I might drown
Oh, yes, my roof's got a hole in it and I might drown
There was a crooked man and he had a crooked smile
Had a crooked sixpence and he walked a crooked mile
Had a crooked cat and he had a crooked mouse
They all lived together in a crooked little house
Chorus
Well, this crooked little man and his crooked little smile
Took his crooked sixpence and he walked a crooked mile
Bought some crooked nails and a crooked little bat
Tried to fix his roof with a rat-tat-tat-tat-tat
Chorus
Now this crooked little man and his crooked cat and mouse
They all live together in a crooked little house
Has a crooked door with a crooked little latch
Has a crooked roof with a crooked little patch
I must have been having one hell-of-a dream.
Well we are fortunate that this house is dry and remains well above the local flooding level. The retention pond (sump) is still full with the level inches, at most, from overflowing into the streets and I hope flowing into a neighboring multi acre field.
Thanks for all the good wishes,
Charlie.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Charlie,
It's good to hear you are OK. It's amazing that the workers at the store came into work. I am sure they also have their lives in turmoil. It's great you can still have a sense of humor through this. Stay safe and keep us informed.
Vince
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Charlie, stay high and dry.
We had sun this afternoon. One thing I noticed when I was out driving around to take care of some errands I couldn't do since last Thursday was that the gas stations around here are running out of gas to sell. They can't get any shipments. Good thing all our vehicles are full or almost full.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Charlie you and Michael provide so much information it gives the rest of us a much clearer picture of just how bad it is there. I hope you all stay safe and dry.
I'm really happy to hear how helpful the people in the store were. There's a lot to be said staying calm, and helping each other in trying times.
All the best to everyone in the path of this storm.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
"One thing I noticed when I was out driving around to take care of some errands I couldn't do since last Thursday was that the gas stations around here are running out of gas to sell. They can't get any shipments. Good thing all our vehicles are full or almost full."
Not only are the refineries in Houston shut down, all Underground Storage Tanks (i.e. gas stations) in the flood area are potentially contaminated with water. Gasoline may be difficult to find in Texas and expensive elsewhere. Everyone from coast-to-coast should conserve as best you can for a week or two to help our neighbors in Texas!
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
The price of gas here in NC and VA has started to rise but it does almost after any event (real or imagined).
This whole event is playing out differently than with Katrina.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Aug 2017
07:49:10am
re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
" .... potentially contaminated with water. ..."
Potentially, however the subterranean tanks have sealing covers under the ground level plates you see from your car and if they have been closed properly water cannot get in past the seal to contaminate the fuel.
Each gas seller had a twelve or eighteen foot pole to "stick" the tanks to verify the level. They also should have a jar of special hydrosensitive white paste that turns bright blue if it contacts water.
Usually the tanks are checked morning and evening, plus before and after a delivery tanker brings fuel. Any water in excess of about four inches will be a major headache as gas engines will stall and the seller will pay for towing, draining and if the water does get past the fuel filter, replacement of components. An expense and headache no dealer wants.
Over the ten years I operated a Shell Station I never let the condensation in my tanks exceed a half inch. I'd call Shell's maintenance and before the end of day they would send a truck to pump the bottom two of three inches.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Also, most gas stations have a computer monitoring system (TEC-1000 model or newer) which monitors liquid levels in the tank (gas & water levels) via a probe suspended in the tank. DEQ (or equivalent state agency) and the EPA require at least a once weekly 4-hour overnight leak detection test performed by the unit to detect any product decrease (indicating a leakage) or product increase (indicating surface water infiltration due to a bad gasket seal).
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Aug 2017
07:40:27pm
re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Computer Monitoring ??? Well that is after my time, although I think I'd still use the measuring pole and detection paste on occasion, just to be sure I received whan the invoice indicated.
A full load cost $8,000 to $10,000 then, so I imagine well over $20,000 a load these days. Too much at risk without physically checking on the computer reasonably frequent.
The stories that people hear about water being sold as gasoline are predominantly Urban Legends, passed around and around and sometimes believed. Should an underground tank become contaminated the shop owner would know pretty quick since few modern fuel injection vehicles can drive more than a half mile, if that, walking distance back to the gas station if cell phones are not available. It pays to be cautious, but if here is water in he fuel you are sold, you will be lucky if the car get out of the gas station and onto the roadway.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Most underground storage tanks have SOME water in them, just due to condensation. The water settles to the bottom and can be removed if it becomes significant. Modern tanks and monitoring take care of all that, but the entire system, including pumps, and especially vents, may not maintain their integrity if they are covered by 5' of water!
I avoid filling up when there is a tanker at the station since dropping a load of fuel will stir up the water at the bottom of the tank. It's not a lot of water, but there is some, usually. I like to give it a few minutes to settle back down to the bottom.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
I managed a Valero station for a short while. We had the computer monitoring system. The water alarm would go off at 1 1/2 inches. That required sticking the tank to verify. Fuel delivery drivers were required to stick the tanks prior to dropping fuel. The stores were required to stick the tanks on Mondays.
If 1 1/2 inches of water were verified, it required shutting down the pumps, and notifying corporate. A crew would come out to remove the water, and examine the tanks to make sure that all was well.
I have a high level of faith when buying fuel at corporate stores. It's the mom and pop independent convenience stores that sell gas where you should take care.
Valero, for example, has a guarantee that if there fuels damage one's engine, they will repair/replace as needed.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
I was a victim of water contamination at gas station just a few months ago. I was driving my wife's car back from a long day trip when I stopped to fill the tank. Ten minutes after I left, the car started hesitating on acceleration. Things got worse and by the time I drove into town the car was crawling and stalling. I actually managed to make it to my front door where it died entirely. It had to be towed to the repair shop, and it took my mechanic - an amazing diagnostician, as I can attest - long time to determine what was wrong. Final repair cost: several hundred dollars. The gas station was a modern BP station.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
If you fill up your tank and the car starts sputtering, immediately head to the closest auto parts store if it's nearby. Ask them what they recommend as a fuel additive for suspected water in the gas (we used STP many years ago). If you aren't near a store, stop driving immediately and call for a ride to a auto parts store. The cars I grew up with would dump small amounts of condensation along with unburned fuel into the manifold and out the pipes, and with a simple carburetor and breaker point ignition system, that worked fine. Modern cars have onboard diagnostics that "learn" how to adjust fuel flow to the injectors, etc., and they may try to "learn" how to burn water, and then you have a big repair bill.
Water in your gas is rare, but it does happen. It could be condensation in the tanker that delivered the fuel, or maybe the hoses on the tanker they use to drop the fuel were lined with condensation. Maybe there was only 1/2" of water at the bottom of the tank, but when the tanker dropped its fuel the water got mixed up. Maybe there was condensation on the walls of the tank that didn't show up on the digital report of water in the tank and until the fuel drop was "invisible". There are many ways to get water into your fuel and most of them are no fault of the station. In fact, you can also be partially to blame if you consistently run your tank close to empty and only put in a few gallons. All that empty air space is just inviting condensation to join the party!
I used to have a good text book on USTs, but I can't locate it today. I did quite a bit of research on this for Convenience Stores about 20 years ago.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
That's good advice about stopping immediately and getting an additive. Water contamination was so far from my mind I didn't even think of that.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
I stopped for gas at a Wawa corporate station in New Jersey on Christmas day. The car started missing but made it to our destination. The next day it did the same on our way home. Only it got worse as we drove. I had burned off about a half tank at that point, so I stopped and got gas. That solved the issue. I assumed it was water in the gas.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
"That's good advice about stopping immediately and getting an additive. Water contamination was so far from my mind I didn't even think of that."
Same here, until it happened to me. Now I will act more quickly.
"I had burned off about a half tank at that point, so I stopped and got gas. That solved the issue."
That's a good point. If, for some reason (like you are traveling through a state with high gas prices), you decide to NOT fill up and experience sputtering, in addition to an additive you can also put in some more fuel from another station. Unless the water is coming from the distributor and the same distributor services both stations and dropped loads on the same day, the second location is likely to be "clean".
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Back to the topic at hand, is there any update on fuel availability in Texas from our eyes on the ground? From the outside the response at the federal, state, and local level seems impressive given the magnitude of the flooding.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
In the Austin area, Timewise stores, branded with Exxon fuels, have now obtained fuel shipments after being out for about five days. In the news today, it was reported that 7-11 stores are running out of gas, and there is no word when they'll be able to get more. Most 7-11 stores in this area use Exxon branded fuels. So, I don't know how the other chain got gas, unless they're finding fuel from other sources.
The news warned today that the fuel supply is going to get tight for a while as the refineries along the gulf coast are all shut down.
I don't think that Valero has been affected as their refinery is located a little bit east of San Antonio. I believe it is operating, and they get their crude from Texas wells. The others get much of their crude off tankers, and with the ports closed, those ships are sitting idle with their cargo.
Now there's Irma sneaking its way westward from Africa. It is supposed to become a major hurricane before it hits the islands and Caribbean north of Venezuela. We'll just have to keep an eye out for it.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
So much for what I said yesterday...
Today's news said that gas prices nationwide have risen on average 4 cents a gallon.
Here's the per gallon pricing in my locale for regular grade gas:
Monday = $2.09
Yesterday = $2.19
Today $2.35 or $2.29
I noted the status of several gas stations on my trip to and from the post office:
two Shell stations - no gas
one Exxon - had gas
two 7-11 - no gas
one independent - no gas
major grocery store - had gas
one Valero - only had regular grade gas
Of course the price really doesn't matter if the stores don't have any gas to sell...
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Howdy from Corpus Christi,
Have not been able to post until today. Lost power Friday at 8 PM and did not return until this morning until about 9 AM. The eye of Harvey went ashore about 15 miles east of me which means I was on the west side, the least destructive. Small towns to my east were devastated. I had winds of about 100 MPH, but all I lost was my 18 year old fence and some leaves and branches off my big oak tree. Did not realize how much I used, needed electricity or the internet until I lost it. Have a generator, so was able to save the freezer and fridge. Did not get the heavy rains that folks in Houston or other parts of Texas received, but did get a good 12 inches.
Praying for those people in Houston and surrounding areas. Have relatives, friends and family of friends who have been flooded out and are seeking higher ground.
Gas prices in Corpus have gone from $2.09 to $2.19, but does not appear to be any shortages.
Celebrated my 53 wedding anniversary on Monday the 28th with a candle light dinner of pork chops and rice-a-roni cooked on my gas grill. No air conditioning, but at least we had each other and were safe.
Thank everyone for the well wishes for all the Harvey victums.
With best regards, Mel
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
01 Sep 2017
12:33:25pm
re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Keep in mind that there is a difference between "price gauging, and reacting to increased costs. Costs are additive, meaning a distributor may have to increase the tank wagon price, the trucker may pay more for diesel fuel to get to the station and may have to follow a more circuitous route, and finally the vendor may have increased costs, for instance, paying a bit more to entice employees to either work overtime, or come to work through the watery mayhem in the first place.
The driver who pulls in and only sees the final price is not likely aware of these factors, but they may be added in at every level.
It has been my experience that while local officials may respond to public outcry by bravely declaring they will toss gougers from the town hall's tower, except for a few really egregious offenders, once they investigate they find they have no case.
Thee things happened when I had the Shell outlet, but they investigators soon backed off and went on to more fertile fields.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Today, more stations are out of gas. Those that have it, the price is up to $2.55. The price is rising 20 cents a day.
People are posting on social media when they find a station with gas. The next thing, a hundred cars are lined up on the road waiting to get gas. Of course, like locusts, they suck everything dry, and then move on to the next station that has gas. Drain that, and those still wanting to buy gas move on to the next, etc. They are blocking the roads and parking lots.
I even saw a line start to form at a gas station that was still under construction and not even open. The construction crew had a couple of trucks parked at the pumps. People saw that and converged on the place.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Gas prices are based upon market price and not necessarily availability.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
02 Sep 2017
01:06:39pm
re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
" ... Gas prices are based upon market price and not necessarily availability. ..."
What complicates understanding of price fluctuation is that much of the pricing is based on speculation, investments and futures.
A distribute may have entered into a contract two months ago to delver so many millions of gallons/barrels of petroleum product by a day that will come in another two weeks (A 90 day contract.)
The price may have been lower at the time and thought to be even less by the due date.
Now he is shopping around to suppler trying to find supplies to fill that order, but the disruption is causing those bulk prices to skyrocket, based on the effects of the storm, which can be seen and the actions of competitors who are also shopping.
That whole market is very complicated even when supply, demand and sources are relatively stable.
Trying to understand it is Excedrin # 54 ++
Having big money tied up in that market is tempting suicide.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Gas is simply not a money-maker, it's a drawing card. When I owned the store, for 32 years, I had to replace gas systems twice. In 1987 it cost $43,000.00 for two new tanks, three gas pumps, a new light fixture, a TEC-1000 monitoring system, inside monitoring and pre-setting consoles, all electrical and labor. In 2009, due to DEQ updated requirements , it cost $158,000.00 for 1 new tank, 1 new pump, updated computer monitoring system (TEC-2000), new presetting console, all electrical and labor. I tried to average a 10 cent profit over cost. Payback on that last system based solely on the sale of gas was never realized the last 7 years I owned the store. But it brought many people to the store to buy other things. Two other stores in the area decided not (or they couldn't) to continue selling gas. One lasted 2 years the other 3 years. The other store in the area updated their system and they are still operating. Also, my price realized at the sale was much more than without being able to sell gas.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Fuel pricing in Australia is AUD$1.30 per litre or AUD$5.90 per gallon. It is not unreasonable to expect, under the rules of supply and demand, increased fuel rates during natural disasters as long of course as the government are there to police gouging.
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05:19:58pm
re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
In the UK the current price for petrol (unleaded ) is about £1.20 per LITRE which is about £6.00 per (Imperial) gallon, at todays exchange rate probably about USD 6.00 per US gallon. I can't be exact as there are 2 calculations involved. Even at higher prices you are still paying less than half we are. In the south of England at a small filling station you can pay considerably more. Supermarket petrol is the cheapest,but best avoided if you have a high performance car, as it is often of inferior quality, although British Standard accreditation should mean that it is uniform.
I was interested to see on UK TV that there has been some criticism about the decision not to evacuate Houston. I am sure that the critics have absolutely no idea how difficult it would have been to carry out such an evacuation - and where do you put several million people at a few days notice? We have all seen "disaster" or "armageddon" movies where panic evacuations have taken place and the gridlock which would ensue. Can you imagine the casualties if the hurricane had struck while everyone was in a traffic jam trying to leave the city? I really don't think that a mass evacuation was ( or is ) feasible and practical.
I do really feel for the people affected ( and those affected in Southern Asia),and I have to confess that the increasing frequency of such extreme events is quite worrying not only in the long term ( which I won't see ) but in the short term ( which I might well).
Malcolm
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Gas prices jumped in the Pennsylvania to New Jersey area. Average so far is about a quarter a gallon, gas was $2.899 when I looked this morning. No doubt will be over $3 this week.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Gas prices in Europe are much higher than they are in the USA, because the taxes on the gasoline are much higher.
The information below is from the "Tax Foundation".
The U.S. combined gas tax rate is actually a lot lower than rates in other industrialized countries. According to data from the OECD, the average gas tax rate among the 34 advanced economies is $2.62 per gallon. In fact, the U.S.’s gas tax is the second lowest (Mexico is the only country without a gas tax) and has a rate less than half of that of the next highest country, Canada, which has a rate of $1.25 per gallon.
2013 - The average tax (federal and state) per gallon of gas in the United States is $0.53. In the UK (ranked 5th highest), the tax is $3.44.
Remove the taxes, and a gallon of gas in the USA costs $2.02 (based on $2.55 per gallon). and in the UK it would be $2.56 (based on $6.00 per imperial gallon from malcolm's post). As you see, gasoline prices are pretty much the same. It is the taxes charged that make the difference.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
Tax his land, Tax his bed, Tax the table At which he’s fed.
Tax his tractor, Tax his mule, Teach him taxes Are the rule.
Tax his work, Tax his pay, He works for peanuts Anyway!
Tax his cow, Tax his goat, Tax his pants, Tax his coat.
Tax his ties, Tax his shirt, Tax his work, Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco, Tax his drink, Tax him if he tries to think.
Tax his cigars, Tax his beers, If he cries, then tax his tears.
Tax his car, Tax his gas, Find other ways To tax his ass.
Tax all he has Then let him know, That you won’t be done till he has no dough.
When he screams and hollers Then tax him more,
Tax him till he’s good and sore.
Then tax his coffin, Tax his grave, Tax the sod in Which he’s laid.
Put these words Upon his tomb, ‘Taxes drove me to my doom.. . ‘
When he’s gone, Do not relax, Its time to apply The inheritance tax.
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re: To our friends in Texas and the Wrath of Harvey
This thread has been split, moving 3 posts onto a new Thread titled:"Hurricane Irma and FLorida"
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