Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Congratulations Phil
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the most dangerous game? 
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Since I joined this group I wonder how many of the people I bid against on E-Bay are also members. If you are one of those people who snipe at the last second, you should be ashamed. On a more serious note, I still don't think there are any friends at an auction and all's fair .... No Phil, I wasn't bidding against you!
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"... If you are one of those people who snipe at the last second, you should be ashamed ..."
Ashamed of what? That they are paying attention to the rules?
Fixed end times offer both eBay and their sellers (oh, dear, here it comes) closure
It also forces bidders to 'move on' and bid on something else.
(The alternative outcome might be that buyer's would keep their powder dry, and watch as some desirable lot gets incremented day after day, week after week, de-liquidifying the market. Urgency can be good for business.)
Our rule (automatic extensions with each winning bid) is more appropriate ... for a drop-in-now-and-again camaraderie-drenched club-style website with a smallish bidding population.
But nothing stops you from paying attention to the rules, and using a sniping service.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Sorry if I offended - I agree with having rules, I was being sarcastic! Don't you hate being sniped as much as I do? You have your stamp book out looking at where the stamp is going to go and then BANG! It's gone!!!! I just hate that, but it's fair!
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Philb - I'm pretty much the same. What I usually do is figure out how much I am willing to pay and put it in right away. That way if I forget to look at it again I have no one to blame but myself. I curse a bit when I get sniped at the last second, but it's part of the game on EBay. I like the way your auctions on SoR are done, if a late bid comes in the auction is extended. I feel a bit bad for the sellers since most of the stuff seems to go on the first bid. But there are very few bidders compared to larger sites, so I guess that is to be expected.
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Harvey, i agree there are fewer buyers here...i have perhaps 12 or 15 buyers and i can not help but notice that in many cases if i have one bid the othr bidders will leave it be.
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SoR auctions seem to almost what I would call a gentleman's auction - first bid usually wins because bidders seem hesitant to upset other bidders by over-bidding them. I find myself starting to think the same way and that is really unfair to the seller. I really think auctions should be mostly anonymous. I go to antique auctions and see buyers making deals all the time and I think that is wrong! But this is mostly a nice friendly site and that's nice to see occasionally - but again, not fair to the seller.
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08:44:07am
IN DEFENSE of SNIPING.
" ... What I usually do is figure out how much I am willing to pay and put it in right away. ..."
If a bidder actually puts in what his limit is when he bids, what matter if some bloke outbids him almost immediately, or halfway to closing, or 3.6 milliseconds ( 0.0036 seconds) before the bidding ends ?
The bidder's highest bid was in and it was outbid.
Now, if a bidder puts in what he feels is a fair amount, but holds the thought of raising his bid a bit if needed in his crossed fingers behind his back to "almost snipe" when he sees the other players laying their cards out on the green felt table, so to speak, who's fault is that ?
I have to admit that until someone invented a sniping application to use on eBay, I often sat up half the night for the excitement of sniping or the temporary despondency (Still exciting.) of being sniped often by mere pennies for some interesting lot.
I can recall sitting there with three or four (Once five) windows open showing the countdown on multiple lots spread across my monitor, actually two screens in parallel, along with the stopwatch clock from the program's applications open in the middle and a wordpad screen to one side with a list and reminders of my plan, the times, the amounts and sometimes what the lot contained, so as lots closed, I could put my last bids in at the (-)3.6ms mark especially when several different lots were scheduled to close at virtually the same instant.
Trying to out snipe other snipers was, or would still be, a great game, but it never harmed any bidder who actually put his money (Highest bid) where his mouth was, only other snipers who knew the rules.
I'll not say much about anyone who later complained that they would have put up another ten or twenty-five cents if only they could have increased their bid the next morning.
The SoR system is well structured to prevent sniping which many oppose and does give me a better night's sleep. And since we all (Well, those who read them, anyway.) know the rules so it is quite fair. But were sniping allowed, I 'd have no shame if my wits and neuropathic fingers were faster than other member's digits.
No regrets, no shame, no collusion. !!!
(Ooops, that's something else.)
Charlie
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I learned pretty quickly if I was interested in something to put my best bid in the day before or the morning of the auction and then check back AFTER the auction was over to see if I won. Since I am frugal when it comes to stamp buys about 19 out of 20 times I don't win- but the 1 other time I get a great deal! Occasionally I troll lesser known sellers and seem to get my best deals there on collections. If a seller has multiple (2-3) country collections I'm interested in on BIN I'll contact him with an offer on them with a combination price with reduced shipping. It has worked a couple of times and a couple of times not!
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I'll pass on an experience. I'm not sure if I should mention the E-Bay seller, so I won't. This person had an amazing Russian collection a year ago with a price of around $3000 with the ability to make an offer. It was basically the Russia Minkus album up to about 1950 with a very large selection of stamps including some of real value, early air ship air mails,etc, etc! He showed a scan of every page and since I also use the Mincus album I figured I needed about a third of the stamps. I had been collecting Russia since the 1970s but was still missing a lot of stamps. I made an offer of half his price, explaining why and never dreaming he would accept it! He did and my collection grew significantly. It was still a lot to pay, but I figured that I got way over the $1500 in catalog value. It's still the most I've ever paid for a stamp lot, but it was definitely worth it to me. I've bought many offers from the same dealer and have always been very satisfied. He doesn't claim to checking every stamp, but so far there have been almost no mistakes - that I know of! Not all E-Bay sellers are bad! The only times I'm really leery is if the deal seems too good to be true or if I'm spending a significant amount for a single stamp.
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"My answer is i do not snipe...i go to a certain point and after that..good luck to you !"
Ebay auctions are usually won in the last second. I cannot see myself staying up to 2am , 3am or any other crazy time of the day to place bids on an item and then still lose it to another bidder. I do not need that much excitement either. So, I snipe. It is well worth it.
I too can relate a case from the past. There was a US seller who had a huge hoard of US Hunting and Fishing Revenue Stamps. He posted hundreds of them with auction closing times being only a few seconds apart. One time, before being registered for a sniping service, I sat down and had about 10 windows open ready to switch between then and place bids in the last seconds. Those were all duck stamps, so I pretty much was shooting ducks. I ended up messing things up so badly, my computer at one point froze up and I did not win a single stamp!
A month or so later, I registered for the sniping service. The same seller relisted most of his unsold stamps plus new addition starting all at $1 each. I set up automatic bids on about 200 of those stamps and ended up winning about 125 of them. I think the seller himself was shocked with my result and he never ever listed duck stamps at $1 each after that.
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Even though I see the use of the sniping program I have never got into it. Maybe I should, but I would feel like a bit of a hypocrite since I've spoken to several people against it. That's my problem I guess, but I'm just set in my ways. What would happen if several people set up their sniping program to come in at the last second at the same prices, or even different prices. Would the sniping program just take the highest as with left bids at an auction or would it try to execute all of them? Does anyone know? By the way, I don't like being sniped but I realize that it is my problem since I could be doing it as well.
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I will sometimes snipe an auction, if it is an item I am really intent on owning. That's to stymy those bidders who will nibble you to death. You know the ones, they keep bidding the minimum increment until they are the top bidder, figuring if someone has bid x amount, it's still worth x + 25c. If you put in a snipe bid that is 2 or 3 dollars above the current bid, there is not enough time left for the nibbler to put in enough incremental 25c bids.
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I am a sniper and proud of it! 
I just reviewed my eSnipe account the other day, as I needed to reload on bid points. I have been with them since 2003 and looking at my account overview, I invest $10-15 every year or two. You can use the system as much as you want, but you only pay for winning bids. There is a sliding scale, but with the low dollar stuff I buy, the average auction costs me a quarter.
It saves you money! One of the phenomena of eBay is that auctions with bids on them draw more bids! I notice this. If I bid in the open, next thing I know someone has outbid me. If I snipe, there may be no bids until the end, when I win uncontested. So there is no one upmanship to deal with.
As others have said, I put my bids into the program and forget about it. One of the other benefits is, that you can change or retract your bids since they haven't gone to eBay. So a day later you see a better deal, you can go for it!
As far as being ashamed... sniping is legal. It's smart business. If you want to get up at 3am to bid on something, go for it! But be prepared for me to outbid you and know that I am comfortably sleeping!
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Snipe all you want - the maximum price I put in is as much as I'm willing to pay anyway and if you want to go higher than that, well it's fine with me!
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"One of the phenomena of eBay is that auctions with bids on them draw more bids!"
Can't agree more with this one. The moment we place a bid, it is like an indication to someone else that the lot is worth its money.
I have won quite a few lots that had more material than evident at first sight from the picture, because no one bothered to check into the details and with no bids on those items, everyone assumed the obvious.
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"Snipe all you want - the maximum price I put in is as much as I'm willing to pay anyway and if you want to go higher than that, well it's fine with me!"
The bottom line is you lose almost 100% of the time.
Let's say you are prepared to pay a price of $X.00
You place your bid ahead of time and by the end of the auction, whoever else is interested in your chosen lot buys it for $X.25.
If you used a sniping service, that guy doesn't know how much you are willing to pay and has no time to figure it out. You then often win the auction for a price of $Y, where Y is less or equal to X.
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It really depends on what you want. There are several types of glass and porcelain that I collect. Believe me, there is no need to snipe. I also win quite a few stamp lots - maybe sometimes I pay a bit more than I would have to if I sniped, but I really can live with that. I'm not a huge buyer, but I don't overpay and I really don't want to join the group of snipers. So far I get most of what I really want and I am happy with that. I also really like your auctions, the prices are very fair and the rules eliminate sniping.
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06:16:51pm
"What would happen if several people set up their sniping program to come in at the last second at the same prices, or even different prices. Would the sniping program just take the highest as with left bids at an auction or would it try to execute all of them? Does anyone know? "
Snipe bids come into ebay from an outside source (either a bleary-eyed 3am bidder at his browser) or a third party sniping service where the bids have been "pre-loaded" and the service is programmed to send the bid to ebay with "x" seconds left. (That's what BenFranklin is describing).
In computer terms, there is no such thing as "at the same time". Even if the bids arrive with one second left, the bid management software at ebay will accept them one at a time in a queue - even if they are 1/1000th of a second apart. The first bid at price "X" will be accepted (assuming it is sufficiently above the current posted bid) and the second "X" bid will receive the message "Bid too low -- you must bid at least X + 1 increment". Of course there will be no opportunity to do that, as the auction will end within the following second.
Roy
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I remember once I was on a lot and did my usual - I made sure my maximum price was there and I was watching the time run down. I don't usually do that. With about two seconds left things went nuts, the price tripled and the number of bids doubled. It was a stamp lot, but I can't remember the country - but on that particular day it was very popular. Much more than I wanted to pay, but it was fun to watch. I just today got over bid on a group of five antique torpedo bottle stands from a Connecticut auction house. I'm sure I'll have another chance at some time and maybe I'll win next time - if not ......
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I would argue that if you pay more than you would have if you had sniped, then you HAVE overpaid. The more I can save on one or more lots means more money I can put towards the next stamp I need.
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One last comment - when it comes to stamps, and I really enjoy looking at and "playing with" my collection, I can always dig up somewhere the money for the next stamp! Stamps are sort of like a "fluffle of rabbits" - they multiply! A group of rabbits really is called a fluffle! I was a teacher for 34 years - remember old teachers never die, they just loose their class. What's your excuse?
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I snipe, as it's very useful in overcoming the tyranny of distance! Being in Australia, auctions I'm interested in tend to end at strange times.
I also recommend being an Ebay seller, and watching your auctions end. It gives your heart a flutter when the snipes hit in the last few seconds!
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i like to overpay,usually give my trade in away when buying a vehicle...but i tend to keep them a while...i would keep them longer if i were single... but at my age i do not think i will be joinning any 400,000 mile Subaru clubs.
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"I was a teacher for 34 years - remember old teachers never die, they just loose their class. What's your excuse?"
I'm a stamp collector. Old stamp collectors don't die, they just come unhinged.
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'
Once upon a time, an eBay lot was selling in single digits ... maybe $7, $9, whatever.
I set my alarm, got logged in & ready and, with about 40 seconds to go, entered my maximum bid of $18.
And, then, BING! BANG! BAM! Every few seconds, another bid arrived. The current winning bid marched - nay ran - towards my U$D 18 bid. I was too stunned to do more than watch, as the 'current' bid went up & up & up.
In the end - and it was a pretty fast end - I got my lot for just a bit under my U$D 18 max.
But what a trip!
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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02:49:19am
The Myth of the bleary eyed bidder.
" .... Ebay auctions are usually won in the last second. I cannot see myself staying up to 2am , 3am or any other crazy time of the day to place bids on an item and then still lose it to another bidder. ...."
I have been retired for twenty years. I sleep when I am tired. And I am awake when I'm not. It is currently 1:32 AM CDST. I doubt I'll be sleepy till around five am or so.
Then I will lie down and sleep as long as I care to do so. If the phone does not ring that may be anywhere from 10 AM to perhaps 3PM.
As the sailor's ditty goes;
"... I eat when I'm hungry,
I drink when I'm dry,
And if moonshine don't kill me,
I'll live till I die. ...."
One thing I hate is lying down because it is the custom,
and then laying there waiting for Morpheus to visit.
Charlie
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Amen Charlie. It is 3:52AM and I am wide awake. I will get sleepy maybe by 6:00 AM. The nite is mine, no one to bug me. I can play with my stamps, read or watch TV without interference.
Jim
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"they just loose their class."
Was this just a typo or do folks really not appreciate the difference between lose and loose. It seems to be very prevalent in modern parlance or maybe it is another of those divided by a common language words.
No offence meant in any way, just bugs me.
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"... Was this just a typo or do folks really not appreciate the difference between lose and loose ..."
The problem arises because both 'lose' & 'loose' will pass a spell-checker and, if their spell-checker does not highlight a word, many folks will just keep on keying.
Another example is the use of 'payed' in place of 'paid'. The latter means that money has changed hands; the former is an archaic term once only familiar to folks who sailed on Coast Guard training ships.
USCGC (Coast Guard Cutter) Eagle
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Sorry "loose" was a typo - I am usually very careful and I get very upset with things like this when others do them! I have another pet peeve. I'm noticing more and more that news broadcasters, especially on radio, don't have a clue how to pronounce names of people and places. I remember years ago an older broadcaster ( Walter Cronkite, I think ) used to read his broadcast ahead of time to make sure there were no mistakes ready to be made - obviously this is not being done anymore. I was listening to the radio this morning and the Mohave part of the Mohave Desert lost it's last syllable. Is this sort of thing getting on any else's nerves? By the way, I just checked this over and corrected four mistakes not picked up by spell checker!
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I waited till the last moment to place my top bid on a long sought Ebay item yesterday but was immediately outbid. Now I see the same item on Amazon for only a bit more than I was prepared to pay on Ebay. Think I'll grab it and call it quits.
And I'll cancel my search so I don't see it come up again and go for half the price next week!
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This is another story abut Ebay bidding.
I saw an item I was looking for,priced at 5.00ukl with the option of making an offer.
Because I really wanted these stamps,I made a higher offer.Normally,when I see this option ,I go for a lower bid.The seller declined my offer so I made a higher offer but again,it was declined.I decided just to make a bid and see what happened.Lo and behold,I was the only bidder .It was a pleasant surprise.
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I always snipe for items I want on eBay but I will place the minimum bid on ebay to end a "buy it now" function along with placing my snipe with esnipe.
Vince
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The more I look through the SoR auctions the more I think I prefer them - no games. Please don't take offence at this and give me a bunch of nasty comments - E-Bay has turned into less of an auction and more of a course in strategy. I still get lots of good stuff on E-Bay, but I'm sure as time moves on that will be rarer and rarer. Please don't start with another bunch of pro-sniping comments, we've already been there. I just know I prefer not to snipe and I am entitled to my opinion. Very few of you agree with it, but c'est la vie!
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Harvey....I agree with you...I hate sniping too.I tend to do most of my purchasing on Delcampe.They have a lot of fixed price items and some dealers give discounts on these.I haven,t experienced sniping on any of my bids there either.
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"I waited till the last moment to place my top bid on a long sought Ebay item yesterday but was immediately outbid. Now I see the same item on Amazon for only a bit more than I was prepared to pay on Ebay. Think I'll grab it and call it quits.
And I'll cancel my search so I don't see it come up again and go for half the price next week!"
Another eBay fact in the collectibles categories. In my other hobby, someone will list an old model car kit that is rarely seen. People think it will sell for about $100, the price it usually goes for when available. Many people watch the listing, and it sells for $300!
The very next week there are three of them available! Yup, everyone thought they'd cash in theirs for $300... but those three all sell for around $50 each!
The moral: When you lose an auction like this, don't give up the search. You will eventually find it cheaper.
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"I'm noticing more and more that news broadcasters, especially on radio, don't have a clue how to pronounce names of people and places."
It is difficult to be a news reporter on the radio in Canada or North America and have the names right!
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You didn't include a pronunciation guide!
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Then again not many people go up the the Nass Valley unless they took a wrong turn at Terrace.
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Now those are some challenging names to pronounce (or even spell)!
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Back to the original topic for a minute. I remember there was a certain early US souvenir sheet I really wanted - Scott #630, 1926, International Philatelic Exhibition. It had a CV of $450 USD and all I wanted to pay was $150. So every time one came up I would put a maximum bid in of $150, I don't snipe. I must have been outbid 10 times, but finally I got it, I think for $120. Patience eventually paid off. I know what the comment will be - "If you sniped you would have got it much earlier and cheaper." I remember the sheets always had a lot of early bids, even before I found the item. I honestly think that if the item is really good, trying to snipe with a low bid won't work anyway. I now have all US souvenir sheets to the point of my cutoff date of 1976. My strategy eventually worked, all I needed was a bit of patience.
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Harvey,
You still don't understand how snipping works. Let's take your souvenir sheet for example. If that was an item I wanted and was willing to pay only $150.00 for it then I would place my bid with esnipe for $150.00 then see how the auction ends. If I win it for $150.00 or less that's great, if not better luck next time. You have a strong opinion about sniping and snipers for someone who doesn't understand how it works and never tried it. You are free to bid any amount for anything you want but how about giving your anti sniping rhetoric a break. It is a useful tool for the eBay platform.
If you don't want to snipe then don't.
Vince
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I'm not against sniping, I just have no interest in getting into it. I'm not a computer person and have never really wanted to be. I know just enough to do what I want to do. So if I'm getting people all worked up, I'll just stay away from the topic. I didn't really post to comment on sniping, just that you can still get what you want without it. Honestly, I understand the principal, it's just above my level of computer knowledge at the moment. Please don't tell me how to load the program - I buy too much stuff as it is!
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I use sniping software simply because it's cheap and I have a full-time job and two young sons. I just don't have the time to babysit an auction and I don't want to inform a newbie bidder or a shill what I'm willing to pay.
Lars
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Fundamentally this is a simple issue - if you bid high enough to win you will win. Sniping is only a factor for those who are trying to snare the seller who posted a too low reserve. But if the seller truly doesn't want to sell it at the "too low reserve" they simply sit it out and don't send you the item and say oh dear it got lost in the mail. Yes you can save a few bucks with the software on some things but the software costs something as well. Its all a game and everyone who enjoys the game is a winner. Ebay is the ultimate profiteer either way. Bit like poker really ...
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"I must have been outbid 10 times, but finally I got it, I think for $120."
Harvey, I bet you would have won this sheet the very first time you placed a $150 bid with an electronic sniping service!
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Yes Cougar I probably could have, but I didn't have to. I don't have the sniping program and don't really want it. It's not that I'm against others doing it - fill your boots! I just am an old fashioned soul who prefers to do it my way, as Frank Sinatra said! Please people don't give me a hard time over this. I don't snipe and I don't buy lottery tickets, it's the way I am!
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Harvey,
You wondered if you have bid against any of the members on Ebay. I know I have. I have also bid against a few of our members at live auctions.
Pat
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"I don't have the sniping program and don't really want it."
No problem with that. I don't use social media and I don't want it.
"Sniping is only a factor for those who are trying to snare the seller who posted a too low reserve."
This is incorrect. When I snipe, I'm not trying to "trick" or "snare" any seller, and I fully expect to compete with other snipers in the last seconds of an auction. The reason I snipe is because I have been nibbled to death before. I was bidding on a stamp I was willing to pay $80 for, so I placed a bid for $80 a few days in advance and checked back after the auction was over. There were several bids up to about $60, but then the dealers dropped out because I was willing to pay more than wholesale price. With about an hour to go, someone with very little feedback placed a bid, and then another, and then another - each time he or she bid, my automatic bid outbid them. Eventually they topped my maximum bid and won the item. Whether it was a shill that was trying to drive up the price and went too far or a newbie that didn't know what the stamp was worth and was a little more emboldened when I out bid him or her, I don't care. Sniping avoids shills and prevents newbies from nibbling away since they haven't done their research. Use the tool or not, I don't care, but don't impune the integrity of those who DO use the tool!
Lars
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If you bid your maximum then that is all that counts. If you are bidding based upon what someone else will bid then there is more emotion in the bidding process. The only way to change the dynamics is to not close bidding until some period after the last bid. This is for those do not want to bid their maximum.
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I'm not impuning anyone's integrity (integrity in the market wow 
) and I'm sorry if you think my saying snare did so. (Is bargain hunting by nature an activity that lacks integrity? Capitalist or Socialist ... Points to ponder....)
If you think it is somehow better to say "I want to get the item at the lowest price" so be it. You certainly are not bumping the price up to whatever you believe the true value to be or otherwise the whole exercise is pointless. Its all the same to me - you want to pay as little as possible and the seller wants the highest price. You both play games to maximize your advantage be it shills (or more likely some wandering low baller), sniping software, various auction strategies or what have you. There aren't any ethics involved unless someone goes outside the rules box. If someone is willing to pay more than you they will win - whether they are an uninformed newbie 
or some e-bay expert 
with an armload of research data saving their nickels and dimes. All someone has to do is post an opening bid or any bid high enough and your sniper will sputter out at your set max bid. It's simply a matter of saying I believe this is worth X and I am willing to pay X for it. The sniper says I think it is worth X and I would much rather pay less than X and people who drive the price up to or beyond X are very annoying to me.
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Now I do things a bit different. My usual approach is an automatic bid up to slightly less than I am willing to pay and a snipe with what I am willing to pay.
Quite often both limits get beaten but that is accepted, most items will appear again at some point. Maybe next time I will win but I never up my snipe bid because it is too low.
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YYYYUUUUUUPPPPPPPP!
All's fair in love, war and Auctions!!
I've seen "friends" almost come to blows over an auction lot that, to me, was not worth the $10 paid!!!
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"... If you bid your maximum then that is all that counts. If you are bidding based upon what someone else will bid then there is more emotion in the bidding process ..."
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=14417#108460
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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I was just wondering? Are sniping services legal on eBay? I seem to recall at one point sniping services were not legal on eBay?
Bruce
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Yes, they're legal, but Ebay don't like them. I use Gavel Snipe, which Ebay has blocked from time to time
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Auctions
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Congratulations Phil
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11:05:20pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
the most dangerous game?
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03:04:20pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Since I joined this group I wonder how many of the people I bid against on E-Bay are also members. If you are one of those people who snipe at the last second, you should be ashamed. On a more serious note, I still don't think there are any friends at an auction and all's fair .... No Phil, I wasn't bidding against you!
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"... If you are one of those people who snipe at the last second, you should be ashamed ..."
Ashamed of what? That they are paying attention to the rules?
Fixed end times offer both eBay and their sellers (oh, dear, here it comes) closure
It also forces bidders to 'move on' and bid on something else.
(The alternative outcome might be that buyer's would keep their powder dry, and watch as some desirable lot gets incremented day after day, week after week, de-liquidifying the market. Urgency can be good for business.)
Our rule (automatic extensions with each winning bid) is more appropriate ... for a drop-in-now-and-again camaraderie-drenched club-style website with a smallish bidding population.
But nothing stops you from paying attention to the rules, and using a sniping service.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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04:15:14pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Sorry if I offended - I agree with having rules, I was being sarcastic! Don't you hate being sniped as much as I do? You have your stamp book out looking at where the stamp is going to go and then BANG! It's gone!!!! I just hate that, but it's fair!
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08:12:39pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Philb - I'm pretty much the same. What I usually do is figure out how much I am willing to pay and put it in right away. That way if I forget to look at it again I have no one to blame but myself. I curse a bit when I get sniped at the last second, but it's part of the game on EBay. I like the way your auctions on SoR are done, if a late bid comes in the auction is extended. I feel a bit bad for the sellers since most of the stuff seems to go on the first bid. But there are very few bidders compared to larger sites, so I guess that is to be expected.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Harvey, i agree there are fewer buyers here...i have perhaps 12 or 15 buyers and i can not help but notice that in many cases if i have one bid the othr bidders will leave it be.
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08:37:34am
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
SoR auctions seem to almost what I would call a gentleman's auction - first bid usually wins because bidders seem hesitant to upset other bidders by over-bidding them. I find myself starting to think the same way and that is really unfair to the seller. I really think auctions should be mostly anonymous. I go to antique auctions and see buyers making deals all the time and I think that is wrong! But this is mostly a nice friendly site and that's nice to see occasionally - but again, not fair to the seller.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
14 Jul 2019
08:44:07am
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
IN DEFENSE of SNIPING.
" ... What I usually do is figure out how much I am willing to pay and put it in right away. ..."
If a bidder actually puts in what his limit is when he bids, what matter if some bloke outbids him almost immediately, or halfway to closing, or 3.6 milliseconds ( 0.0036 seconds) before the bidding ends ?
The bidder's highest bid was in and it was outbid.
Now, if a bidder puts in what he feels is a fair amount, but holds the thought of raising his bid a bit if needed in his crossed fingers behind his back to "almost snipe" when he sees the other players laying their cards out on the green felt table, so to speak, who's fault is that ?
I have to admit that until someone invented a sniping application to use on eBay, I often sat up half the night for the excitement of sniping or the temporary despondency (Still exciting.) of being sniped often by mere pennies for some interesting lot.
I can recall sitting there with three or four (Once five) windows open showing the countdown on multiple lots spread across my monitor, actually two screens in parallel, along with the stopwatch clock from the program's applications open in the middle and a wordpad screen to one side with a list and reminders of my plan, the times, the amounts and sometimes what the lot contained, so as lots closed, I could put my last bids in at the (-)3.6ms mark especially when several different lots were scheduled to close at virtually the same instant.
Trying to out snipe other snipers was, or would still be, a great game, but it never harmed any bidder who actually put his money (Highest bid) where his mouth was, only other snipers who knew the rules.
I'll not say much about anyone who later complained that they would have put up another ten or twenty-five cents if only they could have increased their bid the next morning.
The SoR system is well structured to prevent sniping which many oppose and does give me a better night's sleep. And since we all (Well, those who read them, anyway.) know the rules so it is quite fair. But were sniping allowed, I 'd have no shame if my wits and neuropathic fingers were faster than other member's digits.
No regrets, no shame, no collusion. !!!
(Ooops, that's something else.)
Charlie
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I learned pretty quickly if I was interested in something to put my best bid in the day before or the morning of the auction and then check back AFTER the auction was over to see if I won. Since I am frugal when it comes to stamp buys about 19 out of 20 times I don't win- but the 1 other time I get a great deal! Occasionally I troll lesser known sellers and seem to get my best deals there on collections. If a seller has multiple (2-3) country collections I'm interested in on BIN I'll contact him with an offer on them with a combination price with reduced shipping. It has worked a couple of times and a couple of times not!
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12:40:28pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I'll pass on an experience. I'm not sure if I should mention the E-Bay seller, so I won't. This person had an amazing Russian collection a year ago with a price of around $3000 with the ability to make an offer. It was basically the Russia Minkus album up to about 1950 with a very large selection of stamps including some of real value, early air ship air mails,etc, etc! He showed a scan of every page and since I also use the Mincus album I figured I needed about a third of the stamps. I had been collecting Russia since the 1970s but was still missing a lot of stamps. I made an offer of half his price, explaining why and never dreaming he would accept it! He did and my collection grew significantly. It was still a lot to pay, but I figured that I got way over the $1500 in catalog value. It's still the most I've ever paid for a stamp lot, but it was definitely worth it to me. I've bought many offers from the same dealer and have always been very satisfied. He doesn't claim to checking every stamp, but so far there have been almost no mistakes - that I know of! Not all E-Bay sellers are bad! The only times I'm really leery is if the deal seems too good to be true or if I'm spending a significant amount for a single stamp.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"My answer is i do not snipe...i go to a certain point and after that..good luck to you !"
Ebay auctions are usually won in the last second. I cannot see myself staying up to 2am , 3am or any other crazy time of the day to place bids on an item and then still lose it to another bidder. I do not need that much excitement either. So, I snipe. It is well worth it.
I too can relate a case from the past. There was a US seller who had a huge hoard of US Hunting and Fishing Revenue Stamps. He posted hundreds of them with auction closing times being only a few seconds apart. One time, before being registered for a sniping service, I sat down and had about 10 windows open ready to switch between then and place bids in the last seconds. Those were all duck stamps, so I pretty much was shooting ducks. I ended up messing things up so badly, my computer at one point froze up and I did not win a single stamp!
A month or so later, I registered for the sniping service. The same seller relisted most of his unsold stamps plus new addition starting all at $1 each. I set up automatic bids on about 200 of those stamps and ended up winning about 125 of them. I think the seller himself was shocked with my result and he never ever listed duck stamps at $1 each after that.
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02:44:44pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Even though I see the use of the sniping program I have never got into it. Maybe I should, but I would feel like a bit of a hypocrite since I've spoken to several people against it. That's my problem I guess, but I'm just set in my ways. What would happen if several people set up their sniping program to come in at the last second at the same prices, or even different prices. Would the sniping program just take the highest as with left bids at an auction or would it try to execute all of them? Does anyone know? By the way, I don't like being sniped but I realize that it is my problem since I could be doing it as well.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I will sometimes snipe an auction, if it is an item I am really intent on owning. That's to stymy those bidders who will nibble you to death. You know the ones, they keep bidding the minimum increment until they are the top bidder, figuring if someone has bid x amount, it's still worth x + 25c. If you put in a snipe bid that is 2 or 3 dollars above the current bid, there is not enough time left for the nibbler to put in enough incremental 25c bids.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I am a sniper and proud of it!
I just reviewed my eSnipe account the other day, as I needed to reload on bid points. I have been with them since 2003 and looking at my account overview, I invest $10-15 every year or two. You can use the system as much as you want, but you only pay for winning bids. There is a sliding scale, but with the low dollar stuff I buy, the average auction costs me a quarter.
It saves you money! One of the phenomena of eBay is that auctions with bids on them draw more bids! I notice this. If I bid in the open, next thing I know someone has outbid me. If I snipe, there may be no bids until the end, when I win uncontested. So there is no one upmanship to deal with.
As others have said, I put my bids into the program and forget about it. One of the other benefits is, that you can change or retract your bids since they haven't gone to eBay. So a day later you see a better deal, you can go for it!
As far as being ashamed... sniping is legal. It's smart business. If you want to get up at 3am to bid on something, go for it! But be prepared for me to outbid you and know that I am comfortably sleeping!
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05:48:45pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Snipe all you want - the maximum price I put in is as much as I'm willing to pay anyway and if you want to go higher than that, well it's fine with me!
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"One of the phenomena of eBay is that auctions with bids on them draw more bids!"
Can't agree more with this one. The moment we place a bid, it is like an indication to someone else that the lot is worth its money.
I have won quite a few lots that had more material than evident at first sight from the picture, because no one bothered to check into the details and with no bids on those items, everyone assumed the obvious.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"Snipe all you want - the maximum price I put in is as much as I'm willing to pay anyway and if you want to go higher than that, well it's fine with me!"
The bottom line is you lose almost 100% of the time.
Let's say you are prepared to pay a price of $X.00
You place your bid ahead of time and by the end of the auction, whoever else is interested in your chosen lot buys it for $X.25.
If you used a sniping service, that guy doesn't know how much you are willing to pay and has no time to figure it out. You then often win the auction for a price of $Y, where Y is less or equal to X.
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06:16:19pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
It really depends on what you want. There are several types of glass and porcelain that I collect. Believe me, there is no need to snipe. I also win quite a few stamp lots - maybe sometimes I pay a bit more than I would have to if I sniped, but I really can live with that. I'm not a huge buyer, but I don't overpay and I really don't want to join the group of snipers. So far I get most of what I really want and I am happy with that. I also really like your auctions, the prices are very fair and the rules eliminate sniping.
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 300 categories
15 Jul 2019
06:16:51pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"What would happen if several people set up their sniping program to come in at the last second at the same prices, or even different prices. Would the sniping program just take the highest as with left bids at an auction or would it try to execute all of them? Does anyone know? "
Snipe bids come into ebay from an outside source (either a bleary-eyed 3am bidder at his browser) or a third party sniping service where the bids have been "pre-loaded" and the service is programmed to send the bid to ebay with "x" seconds left. (That's what BenFranklin is describing).
In computer terms, there is no such thing as "at the same time". Even if the bids arrive with one second left, the bid management software at ebay will accept them one at a time in a queue - even if they are 1/1000th of a second apart. The first bid at price "X" will be accepted (assuming it is sufficiently above the current posted bid) and the second "X" bid will receive the message "Bid too low -- you must bid at least X + 1 increment". Of course there will be no opportunity to do that, as the auction will end within the following second.
Roy
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06:29:08pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I remember once I was on a lot and did my usual - I made sure my maximum price was there and I was watching the time run down. I don't usually do that. With about two seconds left things went nuts, the price tripled and the number of bids doubled. It was a stamp lot, but I can't remember the country - but on that particular day it was very popular. Much more than I wanted to pay, but it was fun to watch. I just today got over bid on a group of five antique torpedo bottle stands from a Connecticut auction house. I'm sure I'll have another chance at some time and maybe I'll win next time - if not ......
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I would argue that if you pay more than you would have if you had sniped, then you HAVE overpaid. The more I can save on one or more lots means more money I can put towards the next stamp I need.
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06:45:52pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
One last comment - when it comes to stamps, and I really enjoy looking at and "playing with" my collection, I can always dig up somewhere the money for the next stamp! Stamps are sort of like a "fluffle of rabbits" - they multiply! A group of rabbits really is called a fluffle! I was a teacher for 34 years - remember old teachers never die, they just loose their class. What's your excuse?
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I snipe, as it's very useful in overcoming the tyranny of distance! Being in Australia, auctions I'm interested in tend to end at strange times.
I also recommend being an Ebay seller, and watching your auctions end. It gives your heart a flutter when the snipes hit in the last few seconds!
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
i like to overpay,usually give my trade in away when buying a vehicle...but i tend to keep them a while...i would keep them longer if i were single... but at my age i do not think i will be joinning any 400,000 mile Subaru clubs.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"I was a teacher for 34 years - remember old teachers never die, they just loose their class. What's your excuse?"
I'm a stamp collector. Old stamp collectors don't die, they just come unhinged.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
'
Once upon a time, an eBay lot was selling in single digits ... maybe $7, $9, whatever.
I set my alarm, got logged in & ready and, with about 40 seconds to go, entered my maximum bid of $18.
And, then, BING! BANG! BAM! Every few seconds, another bid arrived. The current winning bid marched - nay ran - towards my U$D 18 bid. I was too stunned to do more than watch, as the 'current' bid went up & up & up.
In the end - and it was a pretty fast end - I got my lot for just a bit under my U$D 18 max.
But what a trip!
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
16 Jul 2019
02:49:19am
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
The Myth of the bleary eyed bidder.
" .... Ebay auctions are usually won in the last second. I cannot see myself staying up to 2am , 3am or any other crazy time of the day to place bids on an item and then still lose it to another bidder. ...."
I have been retired for twenty years. I sleep when I am tired. And I am awake when I'm not. It is currently 1:32 AM CDST. I doubt I'll be sleepy till around five am or so.
Then I will lie down and sleep as long as I care to do so. If the phone does not ring that may be anywhere from 10 AM to perhaps 3PM.
As the sailor's ditty goes;
"... I eat when I'm hungry,
I drink when I'm dry,
And if moonshine don't kill me,
I'll live till I die. ...."
One thing I hate is lying down because it is the custom,
and then laying there waiting for Morpheus to visit.
Charlie
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Amen Charlie. It is 3:52AM and I am wide awake. I will get sleepy maybe by 6:00 AM. The nite is mine, no one to bug me. I can play with my stamps, read or watch TV without interference.
Jim
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"they just loose their class."
Was this just a typo or do folks really not appreciate the difference between lose and loose. It seems to be very prevalent in modern parlance or maybe it is another of those divided by a common language words.
No offence meant in any way, just bugs me.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"... Was this just a typo or do folks really not appreciate the difference between lose and loose ..."
The problem arises because both 'lose' & 'loose' will pass a spell-checker and, if their spell-checker does not highlight a word, many folks will just keep on keying.
Another example is the use of 'payed' in place of 'paid'. The latter means that money has changed hands; the former is an archaic term once only familiar to folks who sailed on Coast Guard training ships.
USCGC (Coast Guard Cutter) Eagle
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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12:21:05pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Sorry "loose" was a typo - I am usually very careful and I get very upset with things like this when others do them! I have another pet peeve. I'm noticing more and more that news broadcasters, especially on radio, don't have a clue how to pronounce names of people and places. I remember years ago an older broadcaster ( Walter Cronkite, I think ) used to read his broadcast ahead of time to make sure there were no mistakes ready to be made - obviously this is not being done anymore. I was listening to the radio this morning and the Mohave part of the Mohave Desert lost it's last syllable. Is this sort of thing getting on any else's nerves? By the way, I just checked this over and corrected four mistakes not picked up by spell checker!
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I waited till the last moment to place my top bid on a long sought Ebay item yesterday but was immediately outbid. Now I see the same item on Amazon for only a bit more than I was prepared to pay on Ebay. Think I'll grab it and call it quits.
And I'll cancel my search so I don't see it come up again and go for half the price next week!
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02:52:07pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
This is another story abut Ebay bidding.
I saw an item I was looking for,priced at 5.00ukl with the option of making an offer.
Because I really wanted these stamps,I made a higher offer.Normally,when I see this option ,I go for a lower bid.The seller declined my offer so I made a higher offer but again,it was declined.I decided just to make a bid and see what happened.Lo and behold,I was the only bidder .It was a pleasant surprise.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I always snipe for items I want on eBay but I will place the minimum bid on ebay to end a "buy it now" function along with placing my snipe with esnipe.
Vince
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07:43:38pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
The more I look through the SoR auctions the more I think I prefer them - no games. Please don't take offence at this and give me a bunch of nasty comments - E-Bay has turned into less of an auction and more of a course in strategy. I still get lots of good stuff on E-Bay, but I'm sure as time moves on that will be rarer and rarer. Please don't start with another bunch of pro-sniping comments, we've already been there. I just know I prefer not to snipe and I am entitled to my opinion. Very few of you agree with it, but c'est la vie!
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10:16:02pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Harvey....I agree with you...I hate sniping too.I tend to do most of my purchasing on Delcampe.They have a lot of fixed price items and some dealers give discounts on these.I haven,t experienced sniping on any of my bids there either.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"I waited till the last moment to place my top bid on a long sought Ebay item yesterday but was immediately outbid. Now I see the same item on Amazon for only a bit more than I was prepared to pay on Ebay. Think I'll grab it and call it quits.
And I'll cancel my search so I don't see it come up again and go for half the price next week!"
Another eBay fact in the collectibles categories. In my other hobby, someone will list an old model car kit that is rarely seen. People think it will sell for about $100, the price it usually goes for when available. Many people watch the listing, and it sells for $300!
The very next week there are three of them available! Yup, everyone thought they'd cash in theirs for $300... but those three all sell for around $50 each!
The moral: When you lose an auction like this, don't give up the search. You will eventually find it cheaper.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"I'm noticing more and more that news broadcasters, especially on radio, don't have a clue how to pronounce names of people and places."
It is difficult to be a news reporter on the radio in Canada or North America and have the names right!
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08:12:02am
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
You didn't include a pronunciation guide!
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10:35:33am
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Then again not many people go up the the Nass Valley unless they took a wrong turn at Terrace.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Now those are some challenging names to pronounce (or even spell)!
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06:19:08pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Back to the original topic for a minute. I remember there was a certain early US souvenir sheet I really wanted - Scott #630, 1926, International Philatelic Exhibition. It had a CV of $450 USD and all I wanted to pay was $150. So every time one came up I would put a maximum bid in of $150, I don't snipe. I must have been outbid 10 times, but finally I got it, I think for $120. Patience eventually paid off. I know what the comment will be - "If you sniped you would have got it much earlier and cheaper." I remember the sheets always had a lot of early bids, even before I found the item. I honestly think that if the item is really good, trying to snipe with a low bid won't work anyway. I now have all US souvenir sheets to the point of my cutoff date of 1976. My strategy eventually worked, all I needed was a bit of patience.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Harvey,
You still don't understand how snipping works. Let's take your souvenir sheet for example. If that was an item I wanted and was willing to pay only $150.00 for it then I would place my bid with esnipe for $150.00 then see how the auction ends. If I win it for $150.00 or less that's great, if not better luck next time. You have a strong opinion about sniping and snipers for someone who doesn't understand how it works and never tried it. You are free to bid any amount for anything you want but how about giving your anti sniping rhetoric a break. It is a useful tool for the eBay platform.
If you don't want to snipe then don't.
Vince
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08:09:55pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I'm not against sniping, I just have no interest in getting into it. I'm not a computer person and have never really wanted to be. I know just enough to do what I want to do. So if I'm getting people all worked up, I'll just stay away from the topic. I didn't really post to comment on sniping, just that you can still get what you want without it. Honestly, I understand the principal, it's just above my level of computer knowledge at the moment. Please don't tell me how to load the program - I buy too much stuff as it is!
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I use sniping software simply because it's cheap and I have a full-time job and two young sons. I just don't have the time to babysit an auction and I don't want to inform a newbie bidder or a shill what I'm willing to pay.
Lars
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01:02:49am
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Fundamentally this is a simple issue - if you bid high enough to win you will win. Sniping is only a factor for those who are trying to snare the seller who posted a too low reserve. But if the seller truly doesn't want to sell it at the "too low reserve" they simply sit it out and don't send you the item and say oh dear it got lost in the mail. Yes you can save a few bucks with the software on some things but the software costs something as well. Its all a game and everyone who enjoys the game is a winner. Ebay is the ultimate profiteer either way. Bit like poker really ...
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"I must have been outbid 10 times, but finally I got it, I think for $120."
Harvey, I bet you would have won this sheet the very first time you placed a $150 bid with an electronic sniping service!
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07:51:52pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Yes Cougar I probably could have, but I didn't have to. I don't have the sniping program and don't really want it. It's not that I'm against others doing it - fill your boots! I just am an old fashioned soul who prefers to do it my way, as Frank Sinatra said! Please people don't give me a hard time over this. I don't snipe and I don't buy lottery tickets, it's the way I am!
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Harvey,
You wondered if you have bid against any of the members on Ebay. I know I have. I have also bid against a few of our members at live auctions.
Pat
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"I don't have the sniping program and don't really want it."
No problem with that. I don't use social media and I don't want it.
"Sniping is only a factor for those who are trying to snare the seller who posted a too low reserve."
This is incorrect. When I snipe, I'm not trying to "trick" or "snare" any seller, and I fully expect to compete with other snipers in the last seconds of an auction. The reason I snipe is because I have been nibbled to death before. I was bidding on a stamp I was willing to pay $80 for, so I placed a bid for $80 a few days in advance and checked back after the auction was over. There were several bids up to about $60, but then the dealers dropped out because I was willing to pay more than wholesale price. With about an hour to go, someone with very little feedback placed a bid, and then another, and then another - each time he or she bid, my automatic bid outbid them. Eventually they topped my maximum bid and won the item. Whether it was a shill that was trying to drive up the price and went too far or a newbie that didn't know what the stamp was worth and was a little more emboldened when I out bid him or her, I don't care. Sniping avoids shills and prevents newbies from nibbling away since they haven't done their research. Use the tool or not, I don't care, but don't impune the integrity of those who DO use the tool!
Lars
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
If you bid your maximum then that is all that counts. If you are bidding based upon what someone else will bid then there is more emotion in the bidding process. The only way to change the dynamics is to not close bidding until some period after the last bid. This is for those do not want to bid their maximum.
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07:43:59am
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I'm not impuning anyone's integrity (integrity in the market wow ) and I'm sorry if you think my saying snare did so. (Is bargain hunting by nature an activity that lacks integrity? Capitalist or Socialist ... Points to ponder....)
If you think it is somehow better to say "I want to get the item at the lowest price" so be it. You certainly are not bumping the price up to whatever you believe the true value to be or otherwise the whole exercise is pointless. Its all the same to me - you want to pay as little as possible and the seller wants the highest price. You both play games to maximize your advantage be it shills (or more likely some wandering low baller), sniping software, various auction strategies or what have you. There aren't any ethics involved unless someone goes outside the rules box. If someone is willing to pay more than you they will win - whether they are an uninformed newbie or some e-bay expert with an armload of research data saving their nickels and dimes. All someone has to do is post an opening bid or any bid high enough and your sniper will sputter out at your set max bid. It's simply a matter of saying I believe this is worth X and I am willing to pay X for it. The sniper says I think it is worth X and I would much rather pay less than X and people who drive the price up to or beyond X are very annoying to me.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Now I do things a bit different. My usual approach is an automatic bid up to slightly less than I am willing to pay and a snipe with what I am willing to pay.
Quite often both limits get beaten but that is accepted, most items will appear again at some point. Maybe next time I will win but I never up my snipe bid because it is too low.
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
"... If you bid your maximum then that is all that counts. If you are bidding based upon what someone else will bid then there is more emotion in the bidding process ..."
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=14417#108460
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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07:20:45pm
re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
I was just wondering? Are sniping services legal on eBay? I seem to recall at one point sniping services were not legal on eBay?
Bruce
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re: Got into a bidding war on ebay
Yes, they're legal, but Ebay don't like them. I use Gavel Snipe, which Ebay has blocked from time to time
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