Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
1. What has been your experience with APS's "partner" insurer, Hugh Wood, Inc.?
2. What is the best way to arrive at the fair market value that Wood asks for? If I total my pre-1940s' Scott values, what would a good percentage to use? (Wood only requires identification of single items worth over $25,000.)
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Think about the following 0 no need to answer, just think
Do you have any receipts, old checkbooks or credit card statements etc ?
If it is a substantial collection what figure do you have for your total investment as far as the IRS is concerned.
If it was destroyed how would you start over - replace everything or slowly and perhaps differently.
As a dealer it was easy - year end inventory .... no arguments.
Percentage for "average" - I don't know. I insured for year end inventory on dealer stock but found the exclusions on insuring a private collection were a deal breaker (this was 20 years ago or so).... Inventory value was probably 10 per cent of estimated total single sale price but about equaled worked up stock (still the case)....
I dropped it because it was pretty expensive and if everything was destroyed I would just go to one of the local shows and do a "end of show" buyout of one of the locals - there is almost always someone who had a bad show and is ready to throw in the towel when faced with actual real cash.. sometimes making large piles of "behind the table stuff brought to work on when things are slow" works too. You would be surprised what bargains abound when they know you are serious about buying "stuff" - almost all of my stock came from dealers (probably 95 per cent).
And always read the policy carefully ... hopefully someone will be along with some of the gotcha's - it's been so long I've forgotten
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Sorry if i am butting in....a friend and fellow club member lost his house and much of his stamp collection in a fire. He was not an APS member and did not have a special rider for his stamp collections. I believe the insurance company allowed him $500 or $1,000 for total collectibles...of course he was very disappointed. The receipts are an eye opener...i thought that an evaluation from a respected person might be enough.Receipts i have none...i have purchased some $50 or $100.00 items without receipts and i have done a lot of trading with other collectors over the years. If my collection were destroyed i would think of the fun i had with it and start over in a much more logical way. i think the work of keeping all receipts would somehow diminish the fun of the hobby..but thats just me.
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I'm a retired teacher. The year before retirement we had to attend a retirement seminar. I asked one of the people there what the value of my antiques would be as far as my estate is concerned. I have been collecting many things for a long time and the "book value" of my stuff was huge about 8 years ago (the year of the conference). He told me the value was "yard sale value", so almost nothing. I am on my own so when I'm not around any more the "stuff" will be auctioned and the proceeds will go to charity. There are a few exceptions to the auction route, one is my stamp collection - my regular stamp dealer will buy that, probably at about 10% CV. We collect for fun (hopefully), if we think about value we are fooling ourselves! I don't worry about insurance on my collectibles, what you would get back is minimal, at best! Remember, when you die the person with the most toys wins, just don't expect to win much!! I know, I use way too many !!!'s!
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Phil,
I just asked about the receipts as a general question- I don't usually get them but I do mostly write checks for stuf and get the odd 1099 once in awhile
The problem is if you sell the collection to a dealer or at auction, for let's say $10 or $15K you are in all likelihood going to get a 1099. IF you are unlucky enough to be audited they are going to want something besides your good looks for the purpose of figuring capital gains or losses.... if it's part of an estate the chances are slim but I know how my luck runs ......
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Thank you, people, for your practical, thoughtful replies.
Plenty to think about! It doesn't sound as if the cost of insurance and a professional appraisal would be worth it.
Would I try to rebuild my collection, even if I got a decent replacement check? Nah, I'd probably take the money and spend it on a nice trip. My collection, especially the covers, postcards and EFOs, is made up of too many quirky and local-interest items that it'd be too disheartening to start over or even try a specialized approach. Better to use my time enjoying what I've got.
Stay safe and appropriately paranoid, guys.
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I have insurance through Hugh Wood taking advantage of my APS membership. The yearly cost is very reasonable. I estimated some of my value based on an inventory program fully understanding the "real" value is maybe 10-15%, if that. I have a considerable amount of stuff that is not on inventory.
I haven't thought what I would do if I had to start over.
Geoff
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Do auction houses send out 1099s? i know people who sold collections at auction..they received a check but no mention of taxes. One fellow sold through an auction house in Europe so taxes will probably not be an issue. Unless my club auctions off my stamps when i am no longer around...i don't like to think about what will happen to them. Some people sold off their collections while still living...but thats not for me.
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Pogo,
What did you mean when you wrote "I estimated some of my value based on an inventory program"?
Vinman,
One reason I posted here is that Wood hasn't replied to my question. Understandable these days.
Yeah, I know, they have telephones. But I like to get stuff in writing. I was promised a certain package by my cable company last month, then later was told they couldn't honor it. When I had a manager check if the original call was recorded, they confirmed my version but claimed I couldn't get the deal unless I paid $30 more because "our dashboard wouldn't allow it."
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Earwaves,
I use Stamp Manage 2020 to keep track of my US and GB collections, and I'm working on adding other parts to it. The values included appear reasonable, and I use a recent Scott if one is missing. I still consider the real value of the collection to be at 10-15% at best of the listed value.
The program has quirks, as has been discussed elsewhere, but it also makes it easy to create a want list.
Geoff
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earwaves,
There is another insurer that will cover stamp collections. Collectibles Insurance Agency, CIA. https://collectinsure.com/
If Hugh Wood is not responding you might consider checking out CIA. I was insured by them for about 15 years but recently dropped the coverage and moved my more valuable stamps and covers to my bank box. Their rates were reasonable for the amount of coverage I had but I never had to make a claim so I can't say how they handle loss claims but never heard anything negative about them or Hugh Wood.
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Thanks, Pogo. I'll check out your suggestions. Joe
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I have used Hugh Woods for years. It is the primary reason I belong to the APS.
They seem to basically take your word for what your collection is worth. For my collection, I basically use 50% of catalog. Every couple of years I increase the coverage to account for the purchases I made since the last time I increased the amount of my policy. Very easy.
Like others, I once tried to insure my collection though my home owner's policy. They wanted a schedule with every stamp on it( with photos), etc. No way!
That said, I have never tried making a claim. In my general experience, insurance marketing people promise the moon, but the claims people look for every reason under the sun not to honor a claim. Don't know if this is true for the Wood firm.
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05:57:50pm
' .... In my general experience,
insurance marketing people promise
the moon, but the claims people look
for every reason under the sun not
to honor a claim. ...."
I see you have dealt with Allstate.
I am sure there are people who have
had wonderful experiences with Allstate
and terrible experiences with other
agencies and companies.
So I apologize in advance.
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Well, at least I got to have a haircut in the Penny Lane barber shop.
20 May 2020
11:14:46am
Threats of tornadoes, floods, thieves and now the pandemic have finally given me the incentive to have my collection insured. I have a typical U.S. 1847-to-present collection with stamps in average condition, some early GB and Canada singles, plus a nice group of postal stationery/history. Two questions:
1. What has been your experience with APS's "partner" insurer, Hugh Wood, Inc.?
2. What is the best way to arrive at the fair market value that Wood asks for? If I total my pre-1940s' Scott values, what would a good percentage to use? (Wood only requires identification of single items worth over $25,000.)
Login to Like
this post
re: Insurance Prep?
Think about the following 0 no need to answer, just think
Do you have any receipts, old checkbooks or credit card statements etc ?
If it is a substantial collection what figure do you have for your total investment as far as the IRS is concerned.
If it was destroyed how would you start over - replace everything or slowly and perhaps differently.
As a dealer it was easy - year end inventory .... no arguments.
Percentage for "average" - I don't know. I insured for year end inventory on dealer stock but found the exclusions on insuring a private collection were a deal breaker (this was 20 years ago or so).... Inventory value was probably 10 per cent of estimated total single sale price but about equaled worked up stock (still the case)....
I dropped it because it was pretty expensive and if everything was destroyed I would just go to one of the local shows and do a "end of show" buyout of one of the locals - there is almost always someone who had a bad show and is ready to throw in the towel when faced with actual real cash.. sometimes making large piles of "behind the table stuff brought to work on when things are slow" works too. You would be surprised what bargains abound when they know you are serious about buying "stuff" - almost all of my stock came from dealers (probably 95 per cent).
And always read the policy carefully ... hopefully someone will be along with some of the gotcha's - it's been so long I've forgotten
1 Member
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Login to Like.
Auctions
re: Insurance Prep?
Sorry if i am butting in....a friend and fellow club member lost his house and much of his stamp collection in a fire. He was not an APS member and did not have a special rider for his stamp collections. I believe the insurance company allowed him $500 or $1,000 for total collectibles...of course he was very disappointed. The receipts are an eye opener...i thought that an evaluation from a respected person might be enough.Receipts i have none...i have purchased some $50 or $100.00 items without receipts and i have done a lot of trading with other collectors over the years. If my collection were destroyed i would think of the fun i had with it and start over in a much more logical way. i think the work of keeping all receipts would somehow diminish the fun of the hobby..but thats just me.
1 Member
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Login to Like.
02:50:14pm
re: Insurance Prep?
I'm a retired teacher. The year before retirement we had to attend a retirement seminar. I asked one of the people there what the value of my antiques would be as far as my estate is concerned. I have been collecting many things for a long time and the "book value" of my stuff was huge about 8 years ago (the year of the conference). He told me the value was "yard sale value", so almost nothing. I am on my own so when I'm not around any more the "stuff" will be auctioned and the proceeds will go to charity. There are a few exceptions to the auction route, one is my stamp collection - my regular stamp dealer will buy that, probably at about 10% CV. We collect for fun (hopefully), if we think about value we are fooling ourselves! I don't worry about insurance on my collectibles, what you would get back is minimal, at best! Remember, when you die the person with the most toys wins, just don't expect to win much!! I know, I use way too many !!!'s!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Insurance Prep?
Phil,
I just asked about the receipts as a general question- I don't usually get them but I do mostly write checks for stuf and get the odd 1099 once in awhile
The problem is if you sell the collection to a dealer or at auction, for let's say $10 or $15K you are in all likelihood going to get a 1099. IF you are unlucky enough to be audited they are going to want something besides your good looks for the purpose of figuring capital gains or losses.... if it's part of an estate the chances are slim but I know how my luck runs ......
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Well, at least I got to have a haircut in the Penny Lane barber shop.
20 May 2020
05:41:29pm
re: Insurance Prep?
Thank you, people, for your practical, thoughtful replies.
Plenty to think about! It doesn't sound as if the cost of insurance and a professional appraisal would be worth it.
Would I try to rebuild my collection, even if I got a decent replacement check? Nah, I'd probably take the money and spend it on a nice trip. My collection, especially the covers, postcards and EFOs, is made up of too many quirky and local-interest items that it'd be too disheartening to start over or even try a specialized approach. Better to use my time enjoying what I've got.
Stay safe and appropriately paranoid, guys.
1 Member
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Login to Like.
06:09:31pm
re: Insurance Prep?
I have insurance through Hugh Wood taking advantage of my APS membership. The yearly cost is very reasonable. I estimated some of my value based on an inventory program fully understanding the "real" value is maybe 10-15%, if that. I have a considerable amount of stuff that is not on inventory.
I haven't thought what I would do if I had to start over.
Geoff
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Auctions
re: Insurance Prep?
Do auction houses send out 1099s? i know people who sold collections at auction..they received a check but no mention of taxes. One fellow sold through an auction house in Europe so taxes will probably not be an issue. Unless my club auctions off my stamps when i am no longer around...i don't like to think about what will happen to them. Some people sold off their collections while still living...but thats not for me.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Well, at least I got to have a haircut in the Penny Lane barber shop.
21 May 2020
06:32:08pm
re: Insurance Prep?
Pogo,
What did you mean when you wrote "I estimated some of my value based on an inventory program"?
Vinman,
One reason I posted here is that Wood hasn't replied to my question. Understandable these days.
Yeah, I know, they have telephones. But I like to get stuff in writing. I was promised a certain package by my cable company last month, then later was told they couldn't honor it. When I had a manager check if the original call was recorded, they confirmed my version but claimed I couldn't get the deal unless I paid $30 more because "our dashboard wouldn't allow it."
Login to Like
this post
07:09:00pm
re: Insurance Prep?
Earwaves,
I use Stamp Manage 2020 to keep track of my US and GB collections, and I'm working on adding other parts to it. The values included appear reasonable, and I use a recent Scott if one is missing. I still consider the real value of the collection to be at 10-15% at best of the listed value.
The program has quirks, as has been discussed elsewhere, but it also makes it easy to create a want list.
Geoff
Login to Like
this post
re: Insurance Prep?
earwaves,
There is another insurer that will cover stamp collections. Collectibles Insurance Agency, CIA. https://collectinsure.com/
If Hugh Wood is not responding you might consider checking out CIA. I was insured by them for about 15 years but recently dropped the coverage and moved my more valuable stamps and covers to my bank box. Their rates were reasonable for the amount of coverage I had but I never had to make a claim so I can't say how they handle loss claims but never heard anything negative about them or Hugh Wood.
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Well, at least I got to have a haircut in the Penny Lane barber shop.
07 Jun 2020
11:35:18am
re: Insurance Prep?
Thanks, Pogo. I'll check out your suggestions. Joe
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this post
re: Insurance Prep?
I have used Hugh Woods for years. It is the primary reason I belong to the APS.
They seem to basically take your word for what your collection is worth. For my collection, I basically use 50% of catalog. Every couple of years I increase the coverage to account for the purchases I made since the last time I increased the amount of my policy. Very easy.
Like others, I once tried to insure my collection though my home owner's policy. They wanted a schedule with every stamp on it( with photos), etc. No way!
That said, I have never tried making a claim. In my general experience, insurance marketing people promise the moon, but the claims people look for every reason under the sun not to honor a claim. Don't know if this is true for the Wood firm.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
08 Jun 2020
05:57:50pm
re: Insurance Prep?
' .... In my general experience,
insurance marketing people promise
the moon, but the claims people look
for every reason under the sun not
to honor a claim. ...."
I see you have dealt with Allstate.
I am sure there are people who have
had wonderful experiences with Allstate
and terrible experiences with other
agencies and companies.
So I apologize in advance.
Login to Like
this post