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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Rarities-what do you have?

 

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dani20
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23 Jul 2012
11:28:20pm
Dear All,
The thought occurred to me that perhaps there are those members who might have relatively rare items that they'd be willing to exchange for something they need in their own collection. (I'd define those items as having a Scott Cat. Val. of $500 and up.)

It strikes me that the initial contact might be through this discussion board, but that details would be continued between those interested, in offline email exchanges. Or am I just reinventing a wheel here?

Just a thought. What say you all?

Dan C.
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Liz

24 Jul 2012
12:25:34am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Other than the original posting by a member stating that he would like to trade, any further correspondence with regards to that possible exchange should be done through private emails.

This would apply whether it is high or low valued stamps or any other item for that matter.

That is my understanding.

Don't bother contacting me about trading high valued stamps. I'm not that fortunate. I don't have one stamp in my collection that is listed in a catalogue for $500.00 or more! LOL

Liz


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dani20
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24 Jul 2012
09:25:18am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Dear Liz,
I do understand the point you are making, but I was addressing the reluctance of folks to really engage with high end stuff. I know for a fact that one of our members holds an item that cats at over $130,000- but would hesitate to make it known out of concern that it would appear to be bragging/boasting. I respect that thought, but then thought of others who might have dups of high end stuff that also are reluctant to make it known for similar reasons.

Listing per se may or may not do the trick, but perhaps a listing of rarities as a separate category may be worthwhile. I'm not sure-just saying and seeking guidance here to better serve our membership. Your thoughts, as always, are most appreciated.

Dan C.


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sponthetrona2
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Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often

24 Jul 2012
10:27:58am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

I have quite a few items of high value BUT only ONE of each, therefore trading or selling would be out of the question. My only concern is my heirs. Although each stamp is noted I think they might just give away these stamps without thinking of their true value. It is a pleasure to look in one's book and see these stamps now and then..........boasting about them seems to me to be egotistical............my opinion........Perry

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michael78651
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24 Jul 2012
11:15:38am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Perry, I would suggest in addition to your inventory notes, that you inform at least one of your heirs of the value in the collection (if you haven't already done so). That should help alleviate your concerns.

Dan, I would think most people would be reluctant to discuss the value of their collection, not necessarily to avoid sounding like they were boasting, but out of safety and security. No matter how secure a Web site is, hackers can get their way into it. Names, addresses and such are stored on this site, and in the hands of the wrong people, the safety of one's family and home could be jeopardized.

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dani20
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24 Jul 2012
11:42:32am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Dear Michael & Perry,
Good points all. Perhaps this thread was a poor choice on my part
Dan C.

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michael78651
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24 Jul 2012
04:25:30pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Dan, you had an idea and floated it out there. If all ideas were kept private, we'd never move beyond where we are.

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dani20
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24 Jul 2012
05:22:25pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Thanks for that Michael. I think I'll take Liz's thought, and just post what duplicate rarities I have available for trade on the other board, and see what happens. I'll try to start a Rarities post on the off chance that others may care to list as well.
Thanks to you all for the patience shown.
Dan C.

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saleem
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24 Jul 2012
09:47:54pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

I do possess a rarity which is yet to be valued :-) It was my find that I got listed in Scott catalogs. It is a piece with two pairs of Sc #3771 - 10c Clock imperforates, check the image below, these are the only copies known to philatelic world (How rare is that?). I do have quite a few stamps cataloging in the range of $500-$1000 but that is the catalog value actually these are being sold at about quarter or less of the catalog value. These are one of a type items and not up for exchange, maybe when I get the mint copies of C13 and C14 I will offer the used ones in my collection for exchange.

Image Not Found


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saleem
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24 Jul 2012
10:01:52pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Talking of rarities here is one which is in my collection for a long time - I need to get it specialized some day. This is the only exmaple (on the left) known with the color change - there is no problem with tagging either:


Image Not Found

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dani20
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24 Jul 2012
10:48:05pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Excellent stuff Saleem. Have you sent them off to be expertzed yet? As for the imperfs, at this point they are unique and a wonderful find.I am pleased that you sought to share them with us.As for potential value, often the expertizing party/group will offer an estimate of their worth, in their opinion. They might charge a small fee (just a few dollars) to offer that but in this case it may be well worth it.
Dan C.

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sponthetrona2
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Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often

25 Jul 2012
08:33:24pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Saleem,
Isn't it possible the color shift is caused by oxidation on the Bicentennial issue? Red is notorious for oxidation. Nice imperfs...................I recently found a stamp which I sent in to be expertized and was happily surprised at it's existance in my collection.............you never know what could be lurking in the "should check these stamps" box.

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saleem
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25 Jul 2012
11:04:27pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Hi Dan,
The imperfs were sent to Jay Bigalke the Scott's editor and he got them checked thoroughly before including them in Scott catalog listing. He returned the 'piece' with a nicely worded letter and kindly sent me a copy of the Linn's where the story appeared on the front page - and this is certificate enough for me :-) As for the 10¢ color change issue I have checked every which way but couldn't find anything wrong with it - if oxidisation is the cause than it never affected any other part of the stamp. I am thinking about getting this expertised but not alone and not through the mail system. Maybe some day when my sis are visiting from US I will send these through them.
There is one more issue that I am meaning to get expertised I am unable to find a high resolution scan of this one but will scan it at high resolution later, here is the scan I am having on my hard disk. I found this in one large accumulation of US that I purchased from a local dealer. You can see my reluctance at having this one expertised - if it is genuine I will have to pay a large sum and it if isn't (most probably) than I will be losing my daydream .

Image Not Found

And another recent purchase is a stamp which is just a common definitive but a rarer 'Candle Flame' variety. Read more about this one from 'The Swedish Tiger' website:


"Mentioned by Brookman but rarely seen is the so-called candle flame variety. To the right hand side of either one of the two numeral ones on the stamp extends a white area, said to resemble the flame of a candle. An example is shown above.

The white area is created by a raised portion of the plate in this area, due to poor workmanship on the plate. When the ink is wiped from the plate this area is wiped of ink, thus causing the absence of ink above the foot of the number one. Due to this the shape and size of the flame can vary, thus this is a printing flaw and not a plate flaw.
"


Image Not Found

Here is the stamp that is recently aquired by me:

Image Not Found

(Have tried but couldn't get the images to center on the page - what formatting command is there to center text and images - if there was one I seem to have forgotten it :-)

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dani20
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25 Jul 2012
11:28:07pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Really nice postings Saleem. I had not seen the candle variety-thank you for the info. As for the 2 cent carmine, clearly you're thinking it to be a possible #321. Did you perf the top and the bottom? To my eye they don't quite seem the same, but you'd know better. You do know that many counterfeits exist, and that a single, cancelled copy off cover is not known. That being said, it is still possible.

On the expertizing of the imperf 10 cent items- you have the best certification possible-the acknowledgement of being the finder and owner of the variety and so credited. Can't get better than that.

Outstanding stuff all around. Thanks for the sharing.
Dan C.

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michael78651
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25 Jul 2012
11:57:32pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Regarding the US Scott #321, here is a link that shows pictures of the entire known census of this stamp (2 used on cover - both from Indianapolis; 4 unused pairs):

http://www.siegelauctions.com/enc/census/321/321old.htm


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PeterG
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26 Jul 2012
10:49:17am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Back in 1988 a friend gave me a pack of 100 grammes of Finnish stamps on paper. As I loved to play with kiloware I soon started washing a few of each and sorting them. While sorting I found this stamp from 1986, issued as a booklet pane with 6 different stamps. To begin with I had trouble finding out which stamp it was, because it lacks the red color which changes the look of it. It´s the only time I´ve found funny stuff like that. I have contacted loads of Scandinavian dealers, no one ever heard about it. I still keep it though it´s not listed in any catalogues. I don´t care, it´s my own little uniquom

Image Not Found



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dani20
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26 Jul 2012
11:26:53am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Peter,
I'm wondering if you've got an example of an EFO-a color omitted error. If so, and your research to date has not shown it to be known, you just may have a unique item. Have you considered getting an ID from the APS? They have a service for members, and if you're not a member perhaps a friend who is might accommodate. A more formal route would be to pay for a certification from an expertizing firm, but now we're talking some bucks to satisfy the itch. There is a site, Frajole I think, where knowledgeable folk hang out. (The spelling is probably wrong, but you should be able to locate it.) Perhaps posting to their board and asking for info might be just the ticket. Do let us know how you make out.
Dan C.

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PeterG
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30 Jul 2012
09:05:00am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Dan, I´m not sure what an EFO-a color error is. Apart from showing it to various Scandinavian dealers I also sjowed it to representatives of the Finnish philatelic bureau. They never heard about it either. Or a similar error on any of the other stamps from the booklet. All that led me to believe is is unique. I sent a photocopy to a Finnish stamp auctioneer, he offered FMK 1500 for it. I didn´t sell it. All this was in the early 1990s.
As a Dane I´ve never considered a membership of APS and I must admit that for the last 20 years the only thing I´ve done to spread knowledge of it, or to gain knowledge myself, is showing it in some stamps groups on facebook. Obviously no one has been able to tell me anything

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dani20
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30 Jul 2012
09:56:57am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Peter,
There's a collecting area of interest called EFO(Errors,Freaks,Oddities) which
has a number of categories and sub-categories. One of them is a color-omitted
category which commands big bucks. I'm wondering if your stamp is one of that
category. For U.S.stamps, the definitive work on errors is by Stephen R. Datz.
There is a club devoted to that area alone-perhaps an inquiry to them might turn
up more info? ADDRESS: Editor, The EFO Collector P.O.Box 1126 Kingsland, Georgia 31548-1126 U.S.A.
Keep us informed of how you make out. Very exciting stuff.
Dan C.
ps perhaps present it in scans with the normal color stamp next to the one without the color. Just a thought.

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PeterG
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31 Jul 2012
09:53:42am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

That sounds like a good idea Dan, making a scan and sending them a letter. Only I don´t have the stamp with normal coloring. Maybe I should give it a try anyway.
They don´t have a homepage or email?

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dani20
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09 Aug 2012
10:56:21pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Hi Peter,
Just got back into town and spotted your post. Sorry for the delayed answer.They(EFO folk) probably do have a home page and email address. I don't happen to know it though.
Dan C.

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PeterG
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13 Aug 2012
06:54:14am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

No problem Dan. They do actually have a homepage

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Clutch
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Geaux Tigers!

13 Aug 2012
11:19:41am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Below is a scan of a Scott US#1610 I recently came across while sorting through a box of kiloware. Initially it was simply tossed into the pile of other U.S. stamps. When I started second sorting the US pile something about it caught my eye - I thought at first glance I had found a significant misperf but upon closer inspection it's actually a major color shift.

This color shift in mint condition is going for about $45 apiece on Ebay but this piece I won't break and instead it will remain intact as part of my collection. The beauty to it is I got such a great deal on a 2.6 pound box of kiloware that just one of these would pay for the box plus postage and a box of wine to boot! Still... it looks great just as is in my collection!

Image Not Found

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saleem
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13 Aug 2012
11:28:15am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Great find - have read about the more famous 'CIA Invert' of this stamp but this is an excellent color shift example. Hold on to it.

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Clutch
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Geaux Tigers!

13 Aug 2012
11:29:44am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

I remember when the whole "CIA Error" thing happened, Saleem, and it caused quite a stir in the philatelic community. I had just started collecting and it really helped spark my interest in the hobby.

FYI... three of those CIA Error stamps are still unaccounted for so far as I know.

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Les
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15 Aug 2012
02:17:01pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

I recently bought an advertised (on eBay) US Scott #124 unused no grill. I sent it off to APS and they found the grill. So my unused 124 turned into a 113. I do think that one should err on the side of caution in mentioning the extremely rare stamps that they have for security's sake.

However, I do like Dan's idea of discussing rarities in the name of philatelic education.

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DSCStamps
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12 Jun 2013
02:40:47pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

I get confused over whether it is "Rare or Error". I usually think of "Rare" (not meat) as having a known quantity and there is no surprise about how many there are. With "Error's" it can become infinite, someone finds something and claims it worth a fortune and then everyone else starts looking and behold there are thousands that no one knew about.

"Rare" I can deal with from an investment standpoint, "Error" is a real grab bag and a moving target on value. This is a real - "Buyer be Aware".

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

12 Jun 2013
02:58:50pm

Auctions
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Dan, i think you are confusing supply and demand here. Rare and errors may, or may, not be the same stamp. US C3a is both rare and an error, plus it WAS a good investment about a century ago. It will always be an error, and always be considered rare, although 100 is no where near as rare as the British Guyana magenta or the Swedish 3sk error of color, both of which have one extant copy but only the 3sk is an error. both would also be fabulously and enormously expensive.

My copy of Santa Claus Post 47 is the only extant copy with the booklet pane combo perf, making it as rare as either of these latter stamps, and I'll bet I could fetch $20 for it, partly because it's tied to cover. The Hixon catalogue is updated every score years or so, so i've ID'd it as 47b, but will see what the next editor calls it. It is rare, but it is not an error.

In this case, demand would be defined by about 5 guys.

Finally, SCP47b was unknown until a decade ago; its number may change again as other copies are ID'd or my wife recycles it along with the rest of the stuff after she recycles me.

anyway, rare and error can both be fixed quantities (don't think we'll ever get more of C3a or SCP47b) and both can change. Quantity has more to do with rarity, but as you can see, 100 is more valuable if less rare than 1 in some instances.

David

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DSCStamps
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13 Jun 2013
09:06:58am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

David - I absolutely agree with you, must been having a Senior Moment, errors can be rare and priceless.

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TheBlueDude
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer

13 Jun 2013
08:51:04pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

In my opinion the word " Rare" has lost significant meaning in philately with the internet and digital age. Before the internet a set of Graf Zeppelins U.S. Scott# C13-C15 or a U.S. #1 or #2,o $5.00 Colombians where considered rare. You can buy a dozen a day on line now if you want!! Also it has become a selling adjective for anything worth a few bucks which is way over used.
I have a very sound U.S. collection with a few bells and whistles ( I grew up in brick and mortar Stamp and Coin store-will work for stamps was my early motto!!!) but in this day and age I dont consider any of them rare but I do have several very scarce items. There are rarities out there and we all know what they are. A member spoke of someone with a $130,000.00 stamp in there collection to me that would fall in the rare category-I am jealous and congrats to that member it has to be a highlight of their collection.
Well back to sorting my not so rare Thumbs Upstamp pile and enjoying it! Not every stamp can be rare but each one has a great story!

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DSCStamps
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14 Jun 2013
08:51:33am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

I agree the internet has added volume to scarce stamps or at least ones that were thought to be scarce. However there are still some that have a finite quantity known that I would still put in the category of Rare & Scarce.

For instance, I have an Imperforate vertical pair of the First Issue Iowa duck stamp that are also signed by the artist Maynard Reece. According to Bob Dumaine of the Sam Houston Duck Stamp Co and noted expert in the field of stamps, there are only 4 known examples of these in vertical pairs. Bob values these at between $1250 to $1500 and has them posted on his website. My pair has Reece's signature and we think it is the only known pair to have it and would make them more valuable. Maynard signed them later in life when his hands became shaky and he has since passed. He was not known to sign any of the other pairs. It is thought there was only 1 sheet of 30 of the imperforate and all other examples were cut to singles. So with this knowledge, we can zero it in that we would not expect to see any more of these pairs on the internet, thus making them not only Rare, but also very Scarce. But there is probably only an finite number of duck stamp advocates that would even care about these and even a fewer quantity that would cough up that much to buy them even if they were available. It's the ole supply and demand scenario.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

14 Jun 2013
10:16:15am

Auctions
re: Rarities-what do you have?

fascinating on your ducks, Dan. would you like to showcase that for us here, or write it up as its own article or discussion thread (there are some signature collectors in the club; and some duck collectors).

i also want to point out that the phrase supply and demand is often backwards. Demand drives supply far more than supply does demand. without demand, rarity is just a word; with demand, a relatively common stamp, like US 1, becomes expensive

David

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14 Jun 2013
01:25:53pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

David - good point. With no demand, there won't be much supply and if there is a lot of supply, they will go for dirt cheap.

Here is photo of the Iowa stamp from 1972. This is just one of the many Rare and Scarce duck stamps I have. I would glad to work on an article for these. Always looking to promote duck stamp collecting. It is a very unique aspect of stamp collecting and even Scott's lists all of the Federal, State and Indian Reservation duck hunting stamps, but do not get into all the varieties and errors. Image Not Found

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

14 Jun 2013
02:01:16pm

Auctions
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Dan, first, lovely stamp for both its imperf nature and the pair of signatures. way to go.

second, i'd love to read any of the articles, whether on this stamp, these ducks, the program, or duck collecting.

third, do mallards travel in flocks? i only see them in pairs on my stream.

lastly, in my local club, there are several fairly dedicated duck collectors as well as several duck hunters, with some overlap.

David

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14 Jun 2013
02:13:23pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

David - nice you asked. Here is an address for a recent Houston Chronicle article about Bob Dumaine and stamp collecting and the next generation of collectors. I thought it was very interesting and informative. Bob was awarded the Philatelist of the Year Award last year.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/article/Collectors-looking-for-new-generation-to-carry-on-4587766.php?t=af37665618b1cd4795

(Modified by Moderator on 2013-06-14 19:40:07)

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

14 Jun 2013
04:47:36pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

" .... Before the internet a set of Graf Zeppelins U.S. Scott# C13-C15 or a U.S. #1 or #2,o $5.00 Colombians where considered rare. You can buy a dozen a day on line now if you want!! Also it has become a selling adjective for anything worth a few bucks which is way over used. ...."
I never considered the Zepps as rare, just expensive. Even when Brick and Mortar stores were everywhere, just about every one of them had a set of Zepps to sell. They were just expensive compared to other US Airmail sets.
Today they appear common because with the flick of some educated fingers you can see what hundreds of sellers are offering.

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14 Jun 2013
05:29:23pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

What's great about technology is it separates Fact from Fiction. There is nowhere to hide anymore on the Rare a & Scarce issue. Someone claims they have a unique discovery, and Wham - there are hundred's of them posted. It's the "Good, Bad and the Ugly" of stamp collecting. At least you get to feel the thunder briefly.

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londonbus1
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25 Jun 2013
02:12:00am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Rarities for me are but a dream.

The only Philatelic rarities I have are the wonderful folk I've met through the hobby.
Priceless.

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tedlawrence

25 Jun 2013
10:27:25am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

I have a stamp that is very old & very rare. It is so old ,that it does not have any printing, on it at all. Since it does not have printing ,I can not determine, the centering on it. I am a very lucky collector.

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cornerpost
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25 Jun 2013
10:44:00am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Ted, if you turn it over it may have a picture or some design that will help you decide the centering Winking
Merv

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

25 Jun 2013
11:08:49am

Auctions
re: Rarities-what do you have?

too bad they didn't write on the back of this one; at least you'd know which side is front....presumably

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HungaryForStamps
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26 Jun 2013
10:51:59am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

I have lots of rarities. Unfortunately they are all in the piles of stamps I have yet to catalog. I know they are there...I just know it.

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

26 Jun 2013
11:28:53am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Ted

I think you should submit it to PSE for grading, probably come back a 100 Jumbo! Then you could really brag!

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saleem
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27 Jun 2013
12:26:40am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Here's something I have which marginally falls under the category of 'rarities'. This is US Scott #830a - the 30¢ Roosevelt Blue color plate number block of 4, for comparison the original print #830 of Deep Ultramarine color is also included. Haven't seen a certified Deep Blue color (#830b) on offer anywhere - maybe that's the rare one.

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londonbus1
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27 Jun 2013
04:23:59am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

The original poster defined a 'rare' item as having a Scott Catalogue value of $500 upwards.
What does everyone else think ?
Does the number of the item issued mean 'rare' ?
As a Cinderella collector, can I have a rare stamp in my collection ?
It has been discussed a million times before, but what is rare?

I enjoyed seeing the Duck stamps earlier as they are nearer to my collecting interests and I understand they are popular in the USA.
So would similar items of a limited print run be called rare ?

If so, I have a number of items, but none of them are in an official catalogue and can only be judged on their 'Market' value.
So does it make them rare...or scarce ?

The item below was issued in a limited edition of 50. I was lucky enough to have been 'chosen' as one of the recipients. It cost me £50.
As a Cinderella collector whose main passion is Philatelic Exhibition material of the non-postal variety, this item is the prize and pride of my collection. It was printed by Enschede of Holland on an Old Itaglio Press at the Guildhall in London during London 2010, A Festival of Stamps.
A few months after my procurment of the item, I was offered £400 for it whilst at a large stamp fair in the UK.
So does that make it rare ?
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Stallzer
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01 Aug 2013
01:32:03pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Rare and valuable sometimes are not synonymous so draw your own conclusion on what "Rare" means. To me it means an item like below which I know is rare due to the census showing less than 3000 left in existence.


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PeterG
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01 Aug 2013
01:41:08pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

mdroth, I still have the stamp Big Grin
Around 1990 I made a B/W photocopy and sent to a Finnish dealer/auctioneer, he wanted to buy it for Finmark 1500. It has not been tested as I consider it to be a genuine error. The reason for the lack of face value is due to it´s color (which is missing).
Apart from showing it here, I have it displayed on Facebook, nowhere else.
PeterG

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philb
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01 Aug 2013
03:45:48pm

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re: Rarities-what do you have?

I have an imperf pair of the 2007 tt Florida panther ...i do not know how rare they will turn out to be but heres the story...a member of our stamp club is a big purchaser at a tiny post office a few miles from Red Hook. One day the postmistress called him that she had some of the panther stamps that had not been perforated..was he interested or should she send them back ? She had 3 rolls and or member took them all...i can not judge the post office lady..i have never heard of her being in trouble for what she did..to his credit our friend offered pairs of the cats to the club members at a very fair price...he has sold some off to dealers..but he is no fool and is not going to flood the market...i am still waiting to see if Scott places a catalog value on the imperf pair !Image Not Found

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01 Aug 2013
04:03:23pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Philb, very nice stamps. Got a whole sheet but perforated.

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01 Aug 2013
04:26:07pm

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re: Rarities-what do you have?

Thanks Kiwi, One of the great things about stamp collecting is theres always hope of a find !!!

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01 Aug 2013
04:34:02pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

So, if the reasoning behind Stallzer's and the Original Poster's ideas are to be believed, my item is indeed rare.

But what do others think of the term 'Rare' ?

Number issued, catalogue value, High value ?

So far we have $500 and 3,000 issued.

Any more ?

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01 Aug 2013
06:50:56pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

A 1912 Great Britain 1£ KEV VII unused will fetch over $500.00 but they are certainly not rare

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02 Aug 2013
12:24:57am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

"So, if the reasoning behind Stallzer's and the Original Poster's ideas are to be believed, my item is indeed rare.

But what do others think of the term 'Rare' ?

Number issued, catalogue value, High value ?

So far we have $500 and 3,000 issued.

Any more ?"



Sorry, but "rare" is a vague and often misused term. Zeppelins and Columbians are expensive, but certainly not rare. I have a very rare cover to my great-great-grandfather. The only one known (to me) in existence, but worthless to anyone else.

Trying to determine a relationship between rare and price or rare and number issued is frivolous at best.
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02 Aug 2013
12:33:18am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

I see the term 'rare' bandied about so often that the word itself has become common !! Laughing
Can we assume then that the term is used by anyone who believes that what they have is rare ? I never use the term to describe any of my items either in discussion or selling, but I do use the term scarce, because that is what I believe a few of them are.

The item I showed above exists in a quantity of 50. I have never seen one on offer anywhere, nor am I likely to. So does the low number make it rare? If there is little or no demand, then it cannot be rare, can it ?

The original poster gave a figure of $500 but with no issue number. Stallzer gave an example in his last post of a stamp costing over $500 and belives it isn't rare. So where is the line...or is it just an individual opinion as much of Philately is. That's OK too.
Stallzer said that there were 3,000 left of the lovely item he showed (I have no idea of it's value) and said he knew it was rare.
In 2010, Britain's Royal Mail issued a Tete-Beche sheet of Miniature sheets for the Festival, only the second time a Tete-Beche item has been issued by the Post Office. A limited number of 2010 were issues and yet they did not sell out !! Surprise

So I believe the term 'Rare' in Philately must be taken with a pinch of salt, to be used rarely Rolling On The Floor Laughing and not to be used on places such as eBay to try and con less knowledgable collectors into buying worthless rubbish.

Londonbus1

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02 Aug 2013
08:50:03am

Auctions
re: Rarities-what do you have?

i have occasionally written about rarities here and elsewhere. I include here a link to an article written for non-stamp people in which I tried to put the concept of rarity in context by discussing supply and demand; the title of the article is demand always trumps supply. Enjoy, and feel free to browse some of the other articles, all stamp-related: http://juicyheads.com/link.php?PLHWMIOF

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tedlawrence

03 Aug 2013
09:46:41am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

I own one great stamp rarity. It is very, very old. It is so old, that it does not have any printing on the front and no gum, on the back. It is not perforated.I would imagine, that it may possibly have come, from an ancient Egyptian Tomb.

It may also be cursed,as nothing has gone well for me, for as long as I have owned it! Ted


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03 Aug 2013
03:50:19pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Not to tout my Duck Stamps, but here is what I would really classify as Rare, Scarce, or however we would categorize it. There are only 2 known of these. I have one and I know where the other one is. With only 2 known, I would rate this as about as RARE as you can get. The sheets are printed on both sides. I believe they were printed as Proof Copies and never intended to be issued, but they were. There is no way to place a value on these because there is none on the market to value against, but given what other Duck Stamp errors sell for, I would value it at $1,000 plus. But then, it is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

Here it is. A great find !!!!

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cocollectibles

03 Aug 2013
04:55:25pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Yes, that is something I would consider rare! Very nice indeed! How did you come about obtaining it?

Peter

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03 Aug 2013
07:21:25pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Peter - A dealer friend of mine purchased the 2 sheets and offered one to me. I grabbed it quickly. I do not know where he got it from. He somehow comes across very unusual items from time to time.

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03 Aug 2013
09:23:20pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Rare is used in the same senss that ones wife is beautiful and all the children are handsome
Polite puffery

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15 Aug 2013
11:06:35am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

I have a few rarities that are "rare" within the confines of certain areas of specialization I focus on.

For example, I collect Swedish town cancels and I have an 1872 stamp from Sweden with the "only known example" of a cancel from a tiny village (little more than a "letter collecting station") by the railroad that only had actual postal service for 60 days in 1874. It has a cert, and everything.

Value: about $10.00 (for the stamp) to 99.99% of the world's stamp collectors. About $3000.00 to the 40-odd collectors who know what I am talking about.

Rarity is "relative," for sure.

~Peter

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15 Aug 2013
04:52:12pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Peter - I know exactly what you are addressing here. A single known example of something is RARE, RARE, RARE, and probably should be in a museum. I am not sure I have any such examples of only one, but have many that have known quantities of less than 50. It is the result that many of us strive for, specialization, uniqueness, only ones that collect them, etc, etc. and we end up with gems that no one else has. But if there is no interest, there is no significant value, only to the holder. Demand and desire drives value. Rare means nothing in value unless there is trail of many behind you wanting it. I would not be interested in a Swedish Town Cancel any more than you would be interested in one of my rare duck stamps.

But, to answer the original question, Rare is a combination of supply and demand. If there are not enough available to fill the demand, they become rare, no matter how many exist in total. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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amsd
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15 Aug 2013
06:59:53pm

Auctions
re: Rarities-what do you have?

No, Dan, rare is quantity. Peter's town cancel is rare regardless of light demand. Zeppelin covers are not rare, but in demand. It is the demand, not the supply (nor absence or rarity) that generates the price.

I have several rare things (unique being the ultimate rare); none of them are in much demand, and hence, absent demand, they are not worth much. If people got interested in my unusual tied seals, they would still be rare and might then become valuable. One element changed and the other did not. It is the demand, not the rarity, that drives the market.

David

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15 Aug 2013
10:54:12pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

David is correct. Rarity is related to absolute quantity that exist not scarcity due to high demand. Rarity may not correlate to high prices if there is no demand for the item.

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16 Aug 2013
05:44:31am
re: Rarities-what do you have?

I concur with those who say rarity has to with absolute quantity, not price level.
I am pretty sure that this fairly modern cover is rare but also quite devoid of value Big Grin Antarctic covers ... tsk Thumbs Down
But this one has a return address, to the sender on the British research base Rothera Surprise
I´m sure that is rare Party

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16 Aug 2013
06:53:34am

Auctions
re: Rarities-what do you have?

sender is looking for an exotic destination?

Yes, a commercially used cover from a place where few exist is a fabulous find, and that is rare.

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21 Sep 2013
01:42:21pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

Image Not FoundI have 2 rarities in my collection. The one I admire the most is this Canadian "Admiral" major re-entry on a postcard, Unitrade # 104viii

It is addressed to family too and it didn't cost me a cent.

Chimo

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21 Sep 2013
07:26:15pm
re: Rarities-what do you have?

As stated before rare can be in the eye of the holder- well I'm holding these beauties a couple with small faults but still nice

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dani20

23 Jul 2012
11:28:20pm

Dear All,
The thought occurred to me that perhaps there are those members who might have relatively rare items that they'd be willing to exchange for something they need in their own collection. (I'd define those items as having a Scott Cat. Val. of $500 and up.)

It strikes me that the initial contact might be through this discussion board, but that details would be continued between those interested, in offline email exchanges. Or am I just reinventing a wheel here?

Just a thought. What say you all?

Dan C.

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Liz

24 Jul 2012
12:25:34am

Auctions - Approvals

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Other than the original posting by a member stating that he would like to trade, any further correspondence with regards to that possible exchange should be done through private emails.

This would apply whether it is high or low valued stamps or any other item for that matter.

That is my understanding.

Don't bother contacting me about trading high valued stamps. I'm not that fortunate. I don't have one stamp in my collection that is listed in a catalogue for $500.00 or more! LOL

Liz


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dani20

24 Jul 2012
09:25:18am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Dear Liz,
I do understand the point you are making, but I was addressing the reluctance of folks to really engage with high end stuff. I know for a fact that one of our members holds an item that cats at over $130,000- but would hesitate to make it known out of concern that it would appear to be bragging/boasting. I respect that thought, but then thought of others who might have dups of high end stuff that also are reluctant to make it known for similar reasons.

Listing per se may or may not do the trick, but perhaps a listing of rarities as a separate category may be worthwhile. I'm not sure-just saying and seeking guidance here to better serve our membership. Your thoughts, as always, are most appreciated.

Dan C.


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sponthetrona2

Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often
24 Jul 2012
10:27:58am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

I have quite a few items of high value BUT only ONE of each, therefore trading or selling would be out of the question. My only concern is my heirs. Although each stamp is noted I think they might just give away these stamps without thinking of their true value. It is a pleasure to look in one's book and see these stamps now and then..........boasting about them seems to me to be egotistical............my opinion........Perry

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michael78651

24 Jul 2012
11:15:38am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Perry, I would suggest in addition to your inventory notes, that you inform at least one of your heirs of the value in the collection (if you haven't already done so). That should help alleviate your concerns.

Dan, I would think most people would be reluctant to discuss the value of their collection, not necessarily to avoid sounding like they were boasting, but out of safety and security. No matter how secure a Web site is, hackers can get their way into it. Names, addresses and such are stored on this site, and in the hands of the wrong people, the safety of one's family and home could be jeopardized.

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dani20

24 Jul 2012
11:42:32am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Dear Michael & Perry,
Good points all. Perhaps this thread was a poor choice on my part
Dan C.

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michael78651

24 Jul 2012
04:25:30pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Dan, you had an idea and floated it out there. If all ideas were kept private, we'd never move beyond where we are.

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dani20

24 Jul 2012
05:22:25pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Thanks for that Michael. I think I'll take Liz's thought, and just post what duplicate rarities I have available for trade on the other board, and see what happens. I'll try to start a Rarities post on the off chance that others may care to list as well.
Thanks to you all for the patience shown.
Dan C.

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saleem

24 Jul 2012
09:47:54pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

I do possess a rarity which is yet to be valued :-) It was my find that I got listed in Scott catalogs. It is a piece with two pairs of Sc #3771 - 10c Clock imperforates, check the image below, these are the only copies known to philatelic world (How rare is that?). I do have quite a few stamps cataloging in the range of $500-$1000 but that is the catalog value actually these are being sold at about quarter or less of the catalog value. These are one of a type items and not up for exchange, maybe when I get the mint copies of C13 and C14 I will offer the used ones in my collection for exchange.

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saleem

24 Jul 2012
10:01:52pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Talking of rarities here is one which is in my collection for a long time - I need to get it specialized some day. This is the only exmaple (on the left) known with the color change - there is no problem with tagging either:


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dani20

24 Jul 2012
10:48:05pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Excellent stuff Saleem. Have you sent them off to be expertzed yet? As for the imperfs, at this point they are unique and a wonderful find.I am pleased that you sought to share them with us.As for potential value, often the expertizing party/group will offer an estimate of their worth, in their opinion. They might charge a small fee (just a few dollars) to offer that but in this case it may be well worth it.
Dan C.

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sponthetrona2

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25 Jul 2012
08:33:24pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Saleem,
Isn't it possible the color shift is caused by oxidation on the Bicentennial issue? Red is notorious for oxidation. Nice imperfs...................I recently found a stamp which I sent in to be expertized and was happily surprised at it's existance in my collection.............you never know what could be lurking in the "should check these stamps" box.

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saleem

25 Jul 2012
11:04:27pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Hi Dan,
The imperfs were sent to Jay Bigalke the Scott's editor and he got them checked thoroughly before including them in Scott catalog listing. He returned the 'piece' with a nicely worded letter and kindly sent me a copy of the Linn's where the story appeared on the front page - and this is certificate enough for me :-) As for the 10¢ color change issue I have checked every which way but couldn't find anything wrong with it - if oxidisation is the cause than it never affected any other part of the stamp. I am thinking about getting this expertised but not alone and not through the mail system. Maybe some day when my sis are visiting from US I will send these through them.
There is one more issue that I am meaning to get expertised I am unable to find a high resolution scan of this one but will scan it at high resolution later, here is the scan I am having on my hard disk. I found this in one large accumulation of US that I purchased from a local dealer. You can see my reluctance at having this one expertised - if it is genuine I will have to pay a large sum and it if isn't (most probably) than I will be losing my daydream .

Image Not Found

And another recent purchase is a stamp which is just a common definitive but a rarer 'Candle Flame' variety. Read more about this one from 'The Swedish Tiger' website:


"Mentioned by Brookman but rarely seen is the so-called candle flame variety. To the right hand side of either one of the two numeral ones on the stamp extends a white area, said to resemble the flame of a candle. An example is shown above.

The white area is created by a raised portion of the plate in this area, due to poor workmanship on the plate. When the ink is wiped from the plate this area is wiped of ink, thus causing the absence of ink above the foot of the number one. Due to this the shape and size of the flame can vary, thus this is a printing flaw and not a plate flaw.
"


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Here is the stamp that is recently aquired by me:

Image Not Found

(Have tried but couldn't get the images to center on the page - what formatting command is there to center text and images - if there was one I seem to have forgotten it :-)

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dani20

25 Jul 2012
11:28:07pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Really nice postings Saleem. I had not seen the candle variety-thank you for the info. As for the 2 cent carmine, clearly you're thinking it to be a possible #321. Did you perf the top and the bottom? To my eye they don't quite seem the same, but you'd know better. You do know that many counterfeits exist, and that a single, cancelled copy off cover is not known. That being said, it is still possible.

On the expertizing of the imperf 10 cent items- you have the best certification possible-the acknowledgement of being the finder and owner of the variety and so credited. Can't get better than that.

Outstanding stuff all around. Thanks for the sharing.
Dan C.

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michael78651

25 Jul 2012
11:57:32pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Regarding the US Scott #321, here is a link that shows pictures of the entire known census of this stamp (2 used on cover - both from Indianapolis; 4 unused pairs):

http://www.siegelauctions.com/enc/census/321/321old.htm


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PeterG

26 Jul 2012
10:49:17am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Back in 1988 a friend gave me a pack of 100 grammes of Finnish stamps on paper. As I loved to play with kiloware I soon started washing a few of each and sorting them. While sorting I found this stamp from 1986, issued as a booklet pane with 6 different stamps. To begin with I had trouble finding out which stamp it was, because it lacks the red color which changes the look of it. It´s the only time I´ve found funny stuff like that. I have contacted loads of Scandinavian dealers, no one ever heard about it. I still keep it though it´s not listed in any catalogues. I don´t care, it´s my own little uniquom

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dani20

26 Jul 2012
11:26:53am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Peter,
I'm wondering if you've got an example of an EFO-a color omitted error. If so, and your research to date has not shown it to be known, you just may have a unique item. Have you considered getting an ID from the APS? They have a service for members, and if you're not a member perhaps a friend who is might accommodate. A more formal route would be to pay for a certification from an expertizing firm, but now we're talking some bucks to satisfy the itch. There is a site, Frajole I think, where knowledgeable folk hang out. (The spelling is probably wrong, but you should be able to locate it.) Perhaps posting to their board and asking for info might be just the ticket. Do let us know how you make out.
Dan C.

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PeterG

30 Jul 2012
09:05:00am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Dan, I´m not sure what an EFO-a color error is. Apart from showing it to various Scandinavian dealers I also sjowed it to representatives of the Finnish philatelic bureau. They never heard about it either. Or a similar error on any of the other stamps from the booklet. All that led me to believe is is unique. I sent a photocopy to a Finnish stamp auctioneer, he offered FMK 1500 for it. I didn´t sell it. All this was in the early 1990s.
As a Dane I´ve never considered a membership of APS and I must admit that for the last 20 years the only thing I´ve done to spread knowledge of it, or to gain knowledge myself, is showing it in some stamps groups on facebook. Obviously no one has been able to tell me anything

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dani20

30 Jul 2012
09:56:57am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Peter,
There's a collecting area of interest called EFO(Errors,Freaks,Oddities) which
has a number of categories and sub-categories. One of them is a color-omitted
category which commands big bucks. I'm wondering if your stamp is one of that
category. For U.S.stamps, the definitive work on errors is by Stephen R. Datz.
There is a club devoted to that area alone-perhaps an inquiry to them might turn
up more info? ADDRESS: Editor, The EFO Collector P.O.Box 1126 Kingsland, Georgia 31548-1126 U.S.A.
Keep us informed of how you make out. Very exciting stuff.
Dan C.
ps perhaps present it in scans with the normal color stamp next to the one without the color. Just a thought.

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PeterG

31 Jul 2012
09:53:42am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

That sounds like a good idea Dan, making a scan and sending them a letter. Only I don´t have the stamp with normal coloring. Maybe I should give it a try anyway.
They don´t have a homepage or email?

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dani20

09 Aug 2012
10:56:21pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Hi Peter,
Just got back into town and spotted your post. Sorry for the delayed answer.They(EFO folk) probably do have a home page and email address. I don't happen to know it though.
Dan C.

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PeterG

13 Aug 2012
06:54:14am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

No problem Dan. They do actually have a homepage

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Clutch

Geaux Tigers!
13 Aug 2012
11:19:41am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Below is a scan of a Scott US#1610 I recently came across while sorting through a box of kiloware. Initially it was simply tossed into the pile of other U.S. stamps. When I started second sorting the US pile something about it caught my eye - I thought at first glance I had found a significant misperf but upon closer inspection it's actually a major color shift.

This color shift in mint condition is going for about $45 apiece on Ebay but this piece I won't break and instead it will remain intact as part of my collection. The beauty to it is I got such a great deal on a 2.6 pound box of kiloware that just one of these would pay for the box plus postage and a box of wine to boot! Still... it looks great just as is in my collection!

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saleem

13 Aug 2012
11:28:15am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Great find - have read about the more famous 'CIA Invert' of this stamp but this is an excellent color shift example. Hold on to it.

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Clutch

Geaux Tigers!
13 Aug 2012
11:29:44am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

I remember when the whole "CIA Error" thing happened, Saleem, and it caused quite a stir in the philatelic community. I had just started collecting and it really helped spark my interest in the hobby.

FYI... three of those CIA Error stamps are still unaccounted for so far as I know.

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Les

15 Aug 2012
02:17:01pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

I recently bought an advertised (on eBay) US Scott #124 unused no grill. I sent it off to APS and they found the grill. So my unused 124 turned into a 113. I do think that one should err on the side of caution in mentioning the extremely rare stamps that they have for security's sake.

However, I do like Dan's idea of discussing rarities in the name of philatelic education.

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12 Jun 2013
02:40:47pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

I get confused over whether it is "Rare or Error". I usually think of "Rare" (not meat) as having a known quantity and there is no surprise about how many there are. With "Error's" it can become infinite, someone finds something and claims it worth a fortune and then everyone else starts looking and behold there are thousands that no one knew about.

"Rare" I can deal with from an investment standpoint, "Error" is a real grab bag and a moving target on value. This is a real - "Buyer be Aware".

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amsd

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12 Jun 2013
02:58:50pm

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re: Rarities-what do you have?

Dan, i think you are confusing supply and demand here. Rare and errors may, or may, not be the same stamp. US C3a is both rare and an error, plus it WAS a good investment about a century ago. It will always be an error, and always be considered rare, although 100 is no where near as rare as the British Guyana magenta or the Swedish 3sk error of color, both of which have one extant copy but only the 3sk is an error. both would also be fabulously and enormously expensive.

My copy of Santa Claus Post 47 is the only extant copy with the booklet pane combo perf, making it as rare as either of these latter stamps, and I'll bet I could fetch $20 for it, partly because it's tied to cover. The Hixon catalogue is updated every score years or so, so i've ID'd it as 47b, but will see what the next editor calls it. It is rare, but it is not an error.

In this case, demand would be defined by about 5 guys.

Finally, SCP47b was unknown until a decade ago; its number may change again as other copies are ID'd or my wife recycles it along with the rest of the stuff after she recycles me.

anyway, rare and error can both be fixed quantities (don't think we'll ever get more of C3a or SCP47b) and both can change. Quantity has more to do with rarity, but as you can see, 100 is more valuable if less rare than 1 in some instances.

David

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13 Jun 2013
09:06:58am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

David - I absolutely agree with you, must been having a Senior Moment, errors can be rare and priceless.

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13 Jun 2013
08:51:04pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

In my opinion the word " Rare" has lost significant meaning in philately with the internet and digital age. Before the internet a set of Graf Zeppelins U.S. Scott# C13-C15 or a U.S. #1 or #2,o $5.00 Colombians where considered rare. You can buy a dozen a day on line now if you want!! Also it has become a selling adjective for anything worth a few bucks which is way over used.
I have a very sound U.S. collection with a few bells and whistles ( I grew up in brick and mortar Stamp and Coin store-will work for stamps was my early motto!!!) but in this day and age I dont consider any of them rare but I do have several very scarce items. There are rarities out there and we all know what they are. A member spoke of someone with a $130,000.00 stamp in there collection to me that would fall in the rare category-I am jealous and congrats to that member it has to be a highlight of their collection.
Well back to sorting my not so rare Thumbs Upstamp pile and enjoying it! Not every stamp can be rare but each one has a great story!

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14 Jun 2013
08:51:33am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

I agree the internet has added volume to scarce stamps or at least ones that were thought to be scarce. However there are still some that have a finite quantity known that I would still put in the category of Rare & Scarce.

For instance, I have an Imperforate vertical pair of the First Issue Iowa duck stamp that are also signed by the artist Maynard Reece. According to Bob Dumaine of the Sam Houston Duck Stamp Co and noted expert in the field of stamps, there are only 4 known examples of these in vertical pairs. Bob values these at between $1250 to $1500 and has them posted on his website. My pair has Reece's signature and we think it is the only known pair to have it and would make them more valuable. Maynard signed them later in life when his hands became shaky and he has since passed. He was not known to sign any of the other pairs. It is thought there was only 1 sheet of 30 of the imperforate and all other examples were cut to singles. So with this knowledge, we can zero it in that we would not expect to see any more of these pairs on the internet, thus making them not only Rare, but also very Scarce. But there is probably only an finite number of duck stamp advocates that would even care about these and even a fewer quantity that would cough up that much to buy them even if they were available. It's the ole supply and demand scenario.

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amsd

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14 Jun 2013
10:16:15am

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re: Rarities-what do you have?

fascinating on your ducks, Dan. would you like to showcase that for us here, or write it up as its own article or discussion thread (there are some signature collectors in the club; and some duck collectors).

i also want to point out that the phrase supply and demand is often backwards. Demand drives supply far more than supply does demand. without demand, rarity is just a word; with demand, a relatively common stamp, like US 1, becomes expensive

David

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14 Jun 2013
01:25:53pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

David - good point. With no demand, there won't be much supply and if there is a lot of supply, they will go for dirt cheap.

Here is photo of the Iowa stamp from 1972. This is just one of the many Rare and Scarce duck stamps I have. I would glad to work on an article for these. Always looking to promote duck stamp collecting. It is a very unique aspect of stamp collecting and even Scott's lists all of the Federal, State and Indian Reservation duck hunting stamps, but do not get into all the varieties and errors. Image Not Found

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amsd

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14 Jun 2013
02:01:16pm

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re: Rarities-what do you have?

Dan, first, lovely stamp for both its imperf nature and the pair of signatures. way to go.

second, i'd love to read any of the articles, whether on this stamp, these ducks, the program, or duck collecting.

third, do mallards travel in flocks? i only see them in pairs on my stream.

lastly, in my local club, there are several fairly dedicated duck collectors as well as several duck hunters, with some overlap.

David

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14 Jun 2013
02:13:23pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

David - nice you asked. Here is an address for a recent Houston Chronicle article about Bob Dumaine and stamp collecting and the next generation of collectors. I thought it was very interesting and informative. Bob was awarded the Philatelist of the Year Award last year.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/article/Collectors-looking-for-new-generation-to-carry-on-4587766.php?t=af37665618b1cd4795

(Modified by Moderator on 2013-06-14 19:40:07)

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14 Jun 2013
04:47:36pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

" .... Before the internet a set of Graf Zeppelins U.S. Scott# C13-C15 or a U.S. #1 or #2,o $5.00 Colombians where considered rare. You can buy a dozen a day on line now if you want!! Also it has become a selling adjective for anything worth a few bucks which is way over used. ...."
I never considered the Zepps as rare, just expensive. Even when Brick and Mortar stores were everywhere, just about every one of them had a set of Zepps to sell. They were just expensive compared to other US Airmail sets.
Today they appear common because with the flick of some educated fingers you can see what hundreds of sellers are offering.

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14 Jun 2013
05:29:23pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

What's great about technology is it separates Fact from Fiction. There is nowhere to hide anymore on the Rare a & Scarce issue. Someone claims they have a unique discovery, and Wham - there are hundred's of them posted. It's the "Good, Bad and the Ugly" of stamp collecting. At least you get to feel the thunder briefly.

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londonbus1

25 Jun 2013
02:12:00am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Rarities for me are but a dream.

The only Philatelic rarities I have are the wonderful folk I've met through the hobby.
Priceless.

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tedlawrence

25 Jun 2013
10:27:25am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

I have a stamp that is very old & very rare. It is so old ,that it does not have any printing, on it at all. Since it does not have printing ,I can not determine, the centering on it. I am a very lucky collector.

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cornerpost

25 Jun 2013
10:44:00am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Ted, if you turn it over it may have a picture or some design that will help you decide the centering Winking
Merv

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amsd

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25 Jun 2013
11:08:49am

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re: Rarities-what do you have?

too bad they didn't write on the back of this one; at least you'd know which side is front....presumably

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HungaryForStamps

26 Jun 2013
10:51:59am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

I have lots of rarities. Unfortunately they are all in the piles of stamps I have yet to catalog. I know they are there...I just know it.

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26 Jun 2013
11:28:53am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Ted

I think you should submit it to PSE for grading, probably come back a 100 Jumbo! Then you could really brag!

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saleem

27 Jun 2013
12:26:40am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Here's something I have which marginally falls under the category of 'rarities'. This is US Scott #830a - the 30¢ Roosevelt Blue color plate number block of 4, for comparison the original print #830 of Deep Ultramarine color is also included. Haven't seen a certified Deep Blue color (#830b) on offer anywhere - maybe that's the rare one.

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londonbus1

27 Jun 2013
04:23:59am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

The original poster defined a 'rare' item as having a Scott Catalogue value of $500 upwards.
What does everyone else think ?
Does the number of the item issued mean 'rare' ?
As a Cinderella collector, can I have a rare stamp in my collection ?
It has been discussed a million times before, but what is rare?

I enjoyed seeing the Duck stamps earlier as they are nearer to my collecting interests and I understand they are popular in the USA.
So would similar items of a limited print run be called rare ?

If so, I have a number of items, but none of them are in an official catalogue and can only be judged on their 'Market' value.
So does it make them rare...or scarce ?

The item below was issued in a limited edition of 50. I was lucky enough to have been 'chosen' as one of the recipients. It cost me £50.
As a Cinderella collector whose main passion is Philatelic Exhibition material of the non-postal variety, this item is the prize and pride of my collection. It was printed by Enschede of Holland on an Old Itaglio Press at the Guildhall in London during London 2010, A Festival of Stamps.
A few months after my procurment of the item, I was offered £400 for it whilst at a large stamp fair in the UK.
So does that make it rare ?
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Stallzer

01 Aug 2013
01:32:03pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Rare and valuable sometimes are not synonymous so draw your own conclusion on what "Rare" means. To me it means an item like below which I know is rare due to the census showing less than 3000 left in existence.


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PeterG

01 Aug 2013
01:41:08pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

mdroth, I still have the stamp Big Grin
Around 1990 I made a B/W photocopy and sent to a Finnish dealer/auctioneer, he wanted to buy it for Finmark 1500. It has not been tested as I consider it to be a genuine error. The reason for the lack of face value is due to it´s color (which is missing).
Apart from showing it here, I have it displayed on Facebook, nowhere else.
PeterG

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philb

01 Aug 2013
03:45:48pm

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re: Rarities-what do you have?

I have an imperf pair of the 2007 tt Florida panther ...i do not know how rare they will turn out to be but heres the story...a member of our stamp club is a big purchaser at a tiny post office a few miles from Red Hook. One day the postmistress called him that she had some of the panther stamps that had not been perforated..was he interested or should she send them back ? She had 3 rolls and or member took them all...i can not judge the post office lady..i have never heard of her being in trouble for what she did..to his credit our friend offered pairs of the cats to the club members at a very fair price...he has sold some off to dealers..but he is no fool and is not going to flood the market...i am still waiting to see if Scott places a catalog value on the imperf pair !Image Not Found

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01 Aug 2013
04:03:23pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Philb, very nice stamps. Got a whole sheet but perforated.

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philb

01 Aug 2013
04:26:07pm

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re: Rarities-what do you have?

Thanks Kiwi, One of the great things about stamp collecting is theres always hope of a find !!!

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londonbus1

01 Aug 2013
04:34:02pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

So, if the reasoning behind Stallzer's and the Original Poster's ideas are to be believed, my item is indeed rare.

But what do others think of the term 'Rare' ?

Number issued, catalogue value, High value ?

So far we have $500 and 3,000 issued.

Any more ?

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Stallzer

01 Aug 2013
06:50:56pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

A 1912 Great Britain 1£ KEV VII unused will fetch over $500.00 but they are certainly not rare

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larsdog

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02 Aug 2013
12:24:57am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

"So, if the reasoning behind Stallzer's and the Original Poster's ideas are to be believed, my item is indeed rare.

But what do others think of the term 'Rare' ?

Number issued, catalogue value, High value ?

So far we have $500 and 3,000 issued.

Any more ?"



Sorry, but "rare" is a vague and often misused term. Zeppelins and Columbians are expensive, but certainly not rare. I have a very rare cover to my great-great-grandfather. The only one known (to me) in existence, but worthless to anyone else.

Trying to determine a relationship between rare and price or rare and number issued is frivolous at best.
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londonbus1

02 Aug 2013
12:33:18am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

I see the term 'rare' bandied about so often that the word itself has become common !! Laughing
Can we assume then that the term is used by anyone who believes that what they have is rare ? I never use the term to describe any of my items either in discussion or selling, but I do use the term scarce, because that is what I believe a few of them are.

The item I showed above exists in a quantity of 50. I have never seen one on offer anywhere, nor am I likely to. So does the low number make it rare? If there is little or no demand, then it cannot be rare, can it ?

The original poster gave a figure of $500 but with no issue number. Stallzer gave an example in his last post of a stamp costing over $500 and belives it isn't rare. So where is the line...or is it just an individual opinion as much of Philately is. That's OK too.
Stallzer said that there were 3,000 left of the lovely item he showed (I have no idea of it's value) and said he knew it was rare.
In 2010, Britain's Royal Mail issued a Tete-Beche sheet of Miniature sheets for the Festival, only the second time a Tete-Beche item has been issued by the Post Office. A limited number of 2010 were issues and yet they did not sell out !! Surprise

So I believe the term 'Rare' in Philately must be taken with a pinch of salt, to be used rarely Rolling On The Floor Laughing and not to be used on places such as eBay to try and con less knowledgable collectors into buying worthless rubbish.

Londonbus1

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
02 Aug 2013
08:50:03am

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re: Rarities-what do you have?

i have occasionally written about rarities here and elsewhere. I include here a link to an article written for non-stamp people in which I tried to put the concept of rarity in context by discussing supply and demand; the title of the article is demand always trumps supply. Enjoy, and feel free to browse some of the other articles, all stamp-related: http://juicyheads.com/link.php?PLHWMIOF

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tedlawrence

03 Aug 2013
09:46:41am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

I own one great stamp rarity. It is very, very old. It is so old, that it does not have any printing on the front and no gum, on the back. It is not perforated.I would imagine, that it may possibly have come, from an ancient Egyptian Tomb.

It may also be cursed,as nothing has gone well for me, for as long as I have owned it! Ted


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DSCStamps

03 Aug 2013
03:50:19pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Not to tout my Duck Stamps, but here is what I would really classify as Rare, Scarce, or however we would categorize it. There are only 2 known of these. I have one and I know where the other one is. With only 2 known, I would rate this as about as RARE as you can get. The sheets are printed on both sides. I believe they were printed as Proof Copies and never intended to be issued, but they were. There is no way to place a value on these because there is none on the market to value against, but given what other Duck Stamp errors sell for, I would value it at $1,000 plus. But then, it is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

Here it is. A great find !!!!

Image Not Found

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cocollectibles

03 Aug 2013
04:55:25pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Yes, that is something I would consider rare! Very nice indeed! How did you come about obtaining it?

Peter

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03 Aug 2013
07:21:25pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Peter - A dealer friend of mine purchased the 2 sheets and offered one to me. I grabbed it quickly. I do not know where he got it from. He somehow comes across very unusual items from time to time.

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03 Aug 2013
09:23:20pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Rare is used in the same senss that ones wife is beautiful and all the children are handsome
Polite puffery

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ScanStamps

15 Aug 2013
11:06:35am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

I have a few rarities that are "rare" within the confines of certain areas of specialization I focus on.

For example, I collect Swedish town cancels and I have an 1872 stamp from Sweden with the "only known example" of a cancel from a tiny village (little more than a "letter collecting station") by the railroad that only had actual postal service for 60 days in 1874. It has a cert, and everything.

Value: about $10.00 (for the stamp) to 99.99% of the world's stamp collectors. About $3000.00 to the 40-odd collectors who know what I am talking about.

Rarity is "relative," for sure.

~Peter

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15 Aug 2013
04:52:12pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Peter - I know exactly what you are addressing here. A single known example of something is RARE, RARE, RARE, and probably should be in a museum. I am not sure I have any such examples of only one, but have many that have known quantities of less than 50. It is the result that many of us strive for, specialization, uniqueness, only ones that collect them, etc, etc. and we end up with gems that no one else has. But if there is no interest, there is no significant value, only to the holder. Demand and desire drives value. Rare means nothing in value unless there is trail of many behind you wanting it. I would not be interested in a Swedish Town Cancel any more than you would be interested in one of my rare duck stamps.

But, to answer the original question, Rare is a combination of supply and demand. If there are not enough available to fill the demand, they become rare, no matter how many exist in total. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
15 Aug 2013
06:59:53pm

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re: Rarities-what do you have?

No, Dan, rare is quantity. Peter's town cancel is rare regardless of light demand. Zeppelin covers are not rare, but in demand. It is the demand, not the supply (nor absence or rarity) that generates the price.

I have several rare things (unique being the ultimate rare); none of them are in much demand, and hence, absent demand, they are not worth much. If people got interested in my unusual tied seals, they would still be rare and might then become valuable. One element changed and the other did not. It is the demand, not the rarity, that drives the market.

David

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HungaryForStamps

15 Aug 2013
10:54:12pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

David is correct. Rarity is related to absolute quantity that exist not scarcity due to high demand. Rarity may not correlate to high prices if there is no demand for the item.

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PeterG

16 Aug 2013
05:44:31am

re: Rarities-what do you have?

I concur with those who say rarity has to with absolute quantity, not price level.
I am pretty sure that this fairly modern cover is rare but also quite devoid of value Big Grin Antarctic covers ... tsk Thumbs Down
But this one has a return address, to the sender on the British research base Rothera Surprise
I´m sure that is rare Party

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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
16 Aug 2013
06:53:34am

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re: Rarities-what do you have?

sender is looking for an exotic destination?

Yes, a commercially used cover from a place where few exist is a fabulous find, and that is rare.

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Bujutsu

21 Sep 2013
01:42:21pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

Image Not FoundI have 2 rarities in my collection. The one I admire the most is this Canadian "Admiral" major re-entry on a postcard, Unitrade # 104viii

It is addressed to family too and it didn't cost me a cent.

Chimo

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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
21 Sep 2013
07:26:15pm

re: Rarities-what do you have?

As stated before rare can be in the eye of the holder- well I'm holding these beauties a couple with small faults but still nice

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