Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
- North Korea
- Iran
- Sudan
- Cuba
- Burma
- Syria
This is due to US Treasury Department rules on US embargoes to those countries. It is believed that the PayPal blanket coverage of anything from those countries is over-extended, there is nothing that can be done at the current time. Also, it doesn't matter where the seller is located. PayPal is based in the United States and is subject to US law. If a seller's account is suspended, that also means that the seller will be unable to have access to all funds in their PayPal account. Also, PayPal reports the sellers to the US federal government.
Tim, regarding the invoices generated from SOR and subsequent payment made by the buyer through PayPal, does the information SOR provides to PayPal include a listing (country name, catalog number, purchase price, etc.) of the stamps purchased, or is it just a total dollar amount?
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10:29:48pm
Unbelievable - it's a hobby, we're not trying to create a terrorist cell if we collect stamps from any of these countries. I guess if people are getting them in mixtures or boxlots, then obviously it's safe.
It must be the invoices they're checking. And yes, our invoices list the stamps as they are listed in the headings of the auction. So if the name of the country is listed in the auction heading, then it will appear on the invoice.
Kelly
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Thanks, Kelly.
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Hi Michael,
SOR only feeds the SOR Invoice number and the total amount as per the following image.
Regards ... Tim.
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10:50:50am
So the invoice we get is not what goes to PayPal? The invoices I get itemise everything - oh and btw - apparently I've not received some invoiceslately - odd.
Kelly
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Thanks!
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Well, I have not heard much about this situation lately. However, I did just place a winning bid on a beautiful Red Cross set from Iran. Paypal payment went through without any problems. Seller was in California. Maybe they have had second thoughts about establishing such a ridiculous policy?
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The fact of the matter ,Terry, is that "payPal" saw you
as a client they didn't want to lock horns with.
John Derry
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These countries are on my watch list, and have been there for quite awhile. I find it difficult to approve folks from these countries as I attempt to protect the integrity of Stamporama membership. Perry
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China is OK per US State Department, although we have had mixed results with mail to/fr; not sure how much is the postal system and how much the people. i think we get their bad apples
Cuba remains embargoed by USDoS; mail shouldn't be able to get through; occasionally it does, but it's rare. I personally think the embargo is a flawed policy, but no one asked me at State. Half century of embargo doesn't seem to have had much positive results.
David
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It just seems weird...if a collector wants to buy early Syrian overprinted airmails...he can not pay with Paypal(or buy on ebay ) i thought i might be able to sell a 1910 Cuban postcard on Stamporama..but the buyer could not pay with paypal. We use paypal ALL THE TIME for convenience when purhasing stamps all over the world...but they are Arrogant !
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how in the world would PayPal know that you are selling a post card of a specific country, Phil?
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When you sell on the Stamporama auction and use the Paypal link, Paypal doesn't know what is being paid for. All that is passed to Paypal is the total amount.
Tim
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Plenty of items from all those countries on eBay and elsewhere, except Cuba on ebay which only has a few.
Much ado about nothing. And Philb is right...China is much worse. (and I can mention more but won't)
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Oops! I guess it's only Paypal USA. Misread the first post.
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I am confused by the dialogue of this thread. PayPal has banned "Sales", not stamps from subject countries. If you want to but some Iranian stamps from a seller in California and you live in New York, PayPal does not care. It is not an issue of subject matter, it is a county to country issue. Iranian stamps from a seller in Iran by a buyer in Arizona is blocked. Could be a great seller and society member, but blocked by PayPal. They are outside the scope of SoR.
This is not rocket science. If a country is on the blocked list, do not bid for anything offered if you want to use PayPal. I guess if you want to send cash or other, it is at your risk. PayPal has determined these countries are potentially a problem, not the seller. They have more resources to figure this out than I do.
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" If you want to but some Iranian stamps from a seller in California and you live in New York, PayPal does not care. It is not an issue of subject matter, it is a county to country issue. Iranian stamps from a seller in Iran by a buyer in Arizona is blocked.
"
My understanding was that sellers in the US who sold items "from" banned countries to anyone were blocked by PP because of the item sold, not because they were sold directly from those countries. PP (and eBay) is interpreting the trade embargo regulations broadly and literally, as in "you cannot buy or trade for any goods originally from those countries" and has extended that to postage stamps, even those issued not under the current problematic governments.
Otherwise, by your logic, you're saying that if my Canadian nephew gave me Cuban cigars that he picked up while visiting there, I, living in the US could sell them to someone else living in the United States. I doubt that is the case.
Peter
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04:17:16pm
Peter's statement is also my understanding, but I have no personal interaction to reference. I would be interested to discover if anyone has experienced such action by PayPal?
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There were two or three at bidStart who had their PP transactions held for review, then rejected; one had his account suspended. US sellers selling to US buyers. That was a few months ago and I haven't been back to their forum to see what happened to those folks; maybe those who still go there can update us.
Peter
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There is no current discussion about this on BidStart. I did recently sell a stamp from Korea (South). On the PayPal packing slip with the information provided by BidStart, it said "K*REA.
I sold a couple of North Korean stamps here, on SOR, and since SOR doesn't provide that detail to PayPal, there was no problem.
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I was curious if anyone has an update on PayPal banning Cuba, Sudan, Korea, etc. items from sales.
Peter
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I'm not sure if this answers your question or not.
From what I read on the PayPal website their Terms of Use Policy is not very clear or helpful in this instance.
eBay has the following information showing;
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/embargo.html
Paypal regulates transactions involving Embargoed goods -- items that are subject to government sanctions or a ban on trade with particular countries, businesses, organizations, or individuals. Merchants must comply with the rules and regulations enforced by the U.S. Treasury Office of Foreign Assets Control.
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Pages/default.aspx
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Thanks Patches; that was what I was referring to but I was wondering if there had been any changes to this since it was enacted earlier this year (or was it even last year?).
Peter
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Liz I am curious. Since there isn't a Cuban embargo in Canada are there other payment options similar to PayPal that would be used?
I enjoy a good cigar once in awhile and it is a shame I have to smoke them only in Canada.
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Given what is happening these days in the Ukraine and the sanctions the US will impose soon, don't be surprised if sales of Russia items also will be banned by PayPal.
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It is far less a matter of what is being sold, than to/from where.
In order for PayPal (US) to complete a transaction, it must take possession of the funds, then their cut and then you get the rest. By them taking possession of the funds and then their % they are violating the sanctions or embargo by conducting financial business. There are of course ways around this. You can use a 3rd party in a 3rd country that does not recognize the embargo, such as Canada for anyone in Cuba. I had someone pay me through a Swiss address and ship as a Gift to another Country. Being as He didn't pay for them they were not a purchase.
Note to Logistical1 - Try smoking an Arturo Fuente, Fuente Opus X. This is by far better than 95% or more of the Cuban cigars! If you want to try them and can't find them let me know.
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Now I am confused. It Paypal banning sales of stamps from those countries or are they banning sellers of stamps from those countries? I suspect it is the latter.
I still don't understand why Cuba gets blacklisted (and yet I do).
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"I still don't understand why Cuba gets blacklisted (and yet I do)."
Simple, Remember a young President named J.F.K., The Bay of Pigs and The Cuban Missile Crisis.
The part I don't quite get is that we can normalize relations with Russia (the cause of both)and China but not Cuba. Politics, Go figure!
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Well, its the large voting block in Florida (some in New York too maybe) that is anti-Communist Cuba. As a result there is no political will to change the status quo.
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PayPal is suspending accounts of people who sell stamps from the following countries:
- North Korea
- Iran
- Sudan
- Cuba
- Burma
- Syria
This is due to US Treasury Department rules on US embargoes to those countries. It is believed that the PayPal blanket coverage of anything from those countries is over-extended, there is nothing that can be done at the current time. Also, it doesn't matter where the seller is located. PayPal is based in the United States and is subject to US law. If a seller's account is suspended, that also means that the seller will be unable to have access to all funds in their PayPal account. Also, PayPal reports the sellers to the US federal government.
Tim, regarding the invoices generated from SOR and subsequent payment made by the buyer through PayPal, does the information SOR provides to PayPal include a listing (country name, catalog number, purchase price, etc.) of the stamps purchased, or is it just a total dollar amount?
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
17 May 2013
10:29:48pm
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
Unbelievable - it's a hobby, we're not trying to create a terrorist cell if we collect stamps from any of these countries. I guess if people are getting them in mixtures or boxlots, then obviously it's safe.
It must be the invoices they're checking. And yes, our invoices list the stamps as they are listed in the headings of the auction. So if the name of the country is listed in the auction heading, then it will appear on the invoice.
Kelly
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re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
Thanks, Kelly.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
Hi Michael,
SOR only feeds the SOR Invoice number and the total amount as per the following image.
Regards ... Tim.
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
18 May 2013
10:50:50am
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
So the invoice we get is not what goes to PayPal? The invoices I get itemise everything - oh and btw - apparently I've not received some invoiceslately - odd.
Kelly
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re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
Well, I have not heard much about this situation lately. However, I did just place a winning bid on a beautiful Red Cross set from Iran. Paypal payment went through without any problems. Seller was in California. Maybe they have had second thoughts about establishing such a ridiculous policy?
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
14 Aug 2013
09:49:01pm
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
The fact of the matter ,Terry, is that "payPal" saw you
as a client they didn't want to lock horns with.
John Derry
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this post
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
These countries are on my watch list, and have been there for quite awhile. I find it difficult to approve folks from these countries as I attempt to protect the integrity of Stamporama membership. Perry
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Auctions
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
China is OK per US State Department, although we have had mixed results with mail to/fr; not sure how much is the postal system and how much the people. i think we get their bad apples
Cuba remains embargoed by USDoS; mail shouldn't be able to get through; occasionally it does, but it's rare. I personally think the embargo is a flawed policy, but no one asked me at State. Half century of embargo doesn't seem to have had much positive results.
David
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Auctions
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
It just seems weird...if a collector wants to buy early Syrian overprinted airmails...he can not pay with Paypal(or buy on ebay ) i thought i might be able to sell a 1910 Cuban postcard on Stamporama..but the buyer could not pay with paypal. We use paypal ALL THE TIME for convenience when purhasing stamps all over the world...but they are Arrogant !
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Auctions
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
how in the world would PayPal know that you are selling a post card of a specific country, Phil?
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Auctions - Approvals
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
When you sell on the Stamporama auction and use the Paypal link, Paypal doesn't know what is being paid for. All that is passed to Paypal is the total amount.
Tim
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re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
Plenty of items from all those countries on eBay and elsewhere, except Cuba on ebay which only has a few.
Much ado about nothing. And Philb is right...China is much worse. (and I can mention more but won't)
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re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
Oops! I guess it's only Paypal USA. Misread the first post.
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re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
I am confused by the dialogue of this thread. PayPal has banned "Sales", not stamps from subject countries. If you want to but some Iranian stamps from a seller in California and you live in New York, PayPal does not care. It is not an issue of subject matter, it is a county to country issue. Iranian stamps from a seller in Iran by a buyer in Arizona is blocked. Could be a great seller and society member, but blocked by PayPal. They are outside the scope of SoR.
This is not rocket science. If a country is on the blocked list, do not bid for anything offered if you want to use PayPal. I guess if you want to send cash or other, it is at your risk. PayPal has determined these countries are potentially a problem, not the seller. They have more resources to figure this out than I do.
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01:53:30pm
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
" If you want to but some Iranian stamps from a seller in California and you live in New York, PayPal does not care. It is not an issue of subject matter, it is a county to country issue. Iranian stamps from a seller in Iran by a buyer in Arizona is blocked.
"
My understanding was that sellers in the US who sold items "from" banned countries to anyone were blocked by PP because of the item sold, not because they were sold directly from those countries. PP (and eBay) is interpreting the trade embargo regulations broadly and literally, as in "you cannot buy or trade for any goods originally from those countries" and has extended that to postage stamps, even those issued not under the current problematic governments.
Otherwise, by your logic, you're saying that if my Canadian nephew gave me Cuban cigars that he picked up while visiting there, I, living in the US could sell them to someone else living in the United States. I doubt that is the case.
Peter
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
18 Aug 2013
04:17:16pm
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
Peter's statement is also my understanding, but I have no personal interaction to reference. I would be interested to discover if anyone has experienced such action by PayPal?
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05:00:21pm
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
There were two or three at bidStart who had their PP transactions held for review, then rejected; one had his account suspended. US sellers selling to US buyers. That was a few months ago and I haven't been back to their forum to see what happened to those folks; maybe those who still go there can update us.
Peter
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this post
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
There is no current discussion about this on BidStart. I did recently sell a stamp from Korea (South). On the PayPal packing slip with the information provided by BidStart, it said "K*REA.
I sold a couple of North Korean stamps here, on SOR, and since SOR doesn't provide that detail to PayPal, there was no problem.
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06:35:45am
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
I was curious if anyone has an update on PayPal banning Cuba, Sudan, Korea, etc. items from sales.
Peter
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07:33:33am
Auctions - Approvals
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
I'm not sure if this answers your question or not.
From what I read on the PayPal website their Terms of Use Policy is not very clear or helpful in this instance.
eBay has the following information showing;
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/embargo.html
Paypal regulates transactions involving Embargoed goods -- items that are subject to government sanctions or a ban on trade with particular countries, businesses, organizations, or individuals. Merchants must comply with the rules and regulations enforced by the U.S. Treasury Office of Foreign Assets Control.
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Pages/default.aspx
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08:38:50am
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
Thanks Patches; that was what I was referring to but I was wondering if there had been any changes to this since it was enacted earlier this year (or was it even last year?).
Peter
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re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
Liz I am curious. Since there isn't a Cuban embargo in Canada are there other payment options similar to PayPal that would be used?
I enjoy a good cigar once in awhile and it is a shame I have to smoke them only in Canada.
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08:19:43am
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
Given what is happening these days in the Ukraine and the sanctions the US will impose soon, don't be surprised if sales of Russia items also will be banned by PayPal.
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12:01:32pm
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
It is far less a matter of what is being sold, than to/from where.
In order for PayPal (US) to complete a transaction, it must take possession of the funds, then their cut and then you get the rest. By them taking possession of the funds and then their % they are violating the sanctions or embargo by conducting financial business. There are of course ways around this. You can use a 3rd party in a 3rd country that does not recognize the embargo, such as Canada for anyone in Cuba. I had someone pay me through a Swiss address and ship as a Gift to another Country. Being as He didn't pay for them they were not a purchase.
Note to Logistical1 - Try smoking an Arturo Fuente, Fuente Opus X. This is by far better than 95% or more of the Cuban cigars! If you want to try them and can't find them let me know.
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re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
Now I am confused. It Paypal banning sales of stamps from those countries or are they banning sellers of stamps from those countries? I suspect it is the latter.
I still don't understand why Cuba gets blacklisted (and yet I do).
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03:07:03pm
re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
"I still don't understand why Cuba gets blacklisted (and yet I do)."
Simple, Remember a young President named J.F.K., The Bay of Pigs and The Cuban Missile Crisis.
The part I don't quite get is that we can normalize relations with Russia (the cause of both)and China but not Cuba. Politics, Go figure!
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re: PayPal Bans Payment For Certain Countries
Well, its the large voting block in Florida (some in New York too maybe) that is anti-Communist Cuba. As a result there is no political will to change the status quo.
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