Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
My main collecting interest is the stamps and postal history of the Canal Zone and Panama.
I also collect classic Latin America, Spain, France, Portugal, Greenland, Iceland, Italy, Great Britain and the Commonwealth.
I very recently started a new blog called "Canal Zone Postal History: One cover at a time" canalzonepostalhistory.wordpress.com. I will feature a new cover each week or so until I run out (I am good for at least a year). I also plan on accepting cover images and writeups from others inteterested in the subject.
Cheers!
Antonio
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-07-18 22:27:14)
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Hi Smauggie,
Good to see you here!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Glad to have you aboard Smauggie.
Mike
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Hail, Hail, the gangs all here... Hello Antonio
Login to Like
this post
07:35:48pm
Welcome, Antonio. Enjoy SOR!
Login to Like
this post
I finally chose a picture. An admittedly younger and more tanned me cruising the Panama Canal.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
nice to see you, Antonio
David
Login to Like
this post
Love those Panama Canal cruises. What a blast!!!!!! Can't wait to do the new channel they are building. When we went though the locks, at that time were aboard the ship that paid highest fee at $250,000, just to go to Lake Gatun and dock, but understand the fees are much higher now. I believe that was the Princess Star, but don't quote me on that as my memory sucks, big time. I'm sure my wife will remember what time of the morning we went through and the numbers on the little engines that guided us through the lock were. We have been back to Panama a few more times, but have not entered the Canal since.
Mike
Login to Like
this post
In the picture, I was going through the locks on a 35-foot launch.
I did have dinner on the Princess Star when it was in town, though, for its maiden passage of the canal. To think we were on the same ship at the same time. 
Login to Like
this post
Antonio,
I still have to add a picture myself. It was good to see you again at the library Saturday. I like how you organized your Minnesota covers by county. It's too late for me to change. I am older and more stubborn than you. The webmaster for this site,(Tim) was also at that meeting. It's a great group over here with more opportunities to buy and sell. Tim does a fantastic job with it. I think you will find all the guys here that you know from the other boards.
Pat
Login to Like
this post
And you put it up for auction I see.
Login to Like
this post
11:40:32pm
Phil
This board does not have censors. However, I thought we had members who exercised good taste. I find the card offensive for various reasons, mostly because of the implied racism inherent therein. I am not about to delete it, but I would think you would consider removing it just to preserve your own integrity.
Bobby
Login to Like
this post
No Phil, Bobby is quite correct. Did you not see that the cat was naked?? Really now, you
ought to be much more careful lest the animal lovers who are part of our group be offended. Where is your compassion man, where is your good sense? Really, a most unusual disregard for the proper decorum.
We'll say no more about it then, assuming your eyesight played a trick on you, but really!!
All good thoughts,
Dan C.
(but remember we're keeping an eye on you)
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
As probably the lone Panamanian around here, I understand that the original intent of the postcard was not good. I also know that Mr. Phil does not have a politically correct bone in his body which is a wonderful trait often reserved for the old and wise.
Login to Like
this post
11:48:57am
I was raised in the Jim Crow South and had to work very hard for many years to excise the racist demon from my soul. Most Texans also did as I did, so perhaps the anathema toward any symbolic racist message is stronger than it should be in myself and others of my ilk. But then, perhaps it should be so with all civilized men and women - then perhaps there would not be so much hate and unnecessary death in this world.
You do as you please, and leave the post as is if you desire. There were many postcards of this type depicting “cute†little African American and Hispanic children published in the 1930s, 40s and 50s, and were very popular in the South. These postcards belittled the culture and racial heritage of a helpless, disadvantaged segment of the citizenry of our country, and I, for one, am not proud of that which passed for humor or condescending social attitudes in that era.
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Joking aside, Bobby raises a very real and just concern about our embedded bias towards many things. Way back when there was an Amos & Andy radio show that at the time I thought was innocently funny-but it was misguided & poked fun. I now understand that exactly those innocently aimed barbs were part and parcel of the negative bias built into our culture-and it is not acceptable or tolerable.
We all, no matter what our origins, have those unexamined biases towards many things. In this case Bobby highlights the race/black/white bias-it could just as easily have been the attitude towards women/religion/gender etc.
As we continue on our own individual and unique paths through life, uncovering those distracting biases become very important.The unspoken attitudes towards each other permeate the very conversations we have with those we love the most.The case can be made that it is precisely those unexamined issues that get between us and others, and can be shown to be at the heart of the misunderstandings that we have with each other-personally and on a much larger scale (State,Nation,World).
Take to heart the biblical story of the Tower of Babel-in a very real sense it is so-and part of our task is to overcome it in ourselves. So, Bobby and Phil, you have served to highlight that which must be highlighted as we continue our journey towards enlightenment. For that you are both to be applauded.
(Sadly though-I thought the observation about the cat was funny- apparently only to me. I must learn to listen to my wife more!.)
All good thoughts,
Dan C.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
I see that people are more worried about offending others in the name of racism, but what about the living conditions of of this poor lad? That is the appalling issue to me. Maybe the cat is the one that supplied his "quiet feed" and not mom or pop. In actuality this wee tot probably never had a sick day in his life because his resistance was so high, from the way he lived. He is probably still alive and well, living in that same house as the picture was taken.
Mike
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I am offended by the colonial attitudes that resulted in the creation of such postcards, but I am not offended by the postcard itself. Images in themselves have no meaning. I have any number of postcards and stamps in my collection which depict disgusting people, circumstances, and acts. Some of them depict American presidents! But should I toss them all in the paper recycling bin (after thoughtfully shredding them so as not to offend any binners who might find them)? Nope, don't think so.
We philatelists deal almost exclusively with postal artifacts, which reflect the periods in which they were made. We can learn, and do learn, from those artifacts, although I'm not at all sure whether any society on earth is capable of learning anything in ways that would ensure a better future.
I have dozens of Nazi postcards in my collection. I have a cover posted by a prisoner at Dachau, another posted by a Japanese Canadian who was interned in a remote community in British Columbia after the attack on Pearl Harbor, a Russian stamp showing a Russian soldier bayonetting a German soldier, and a cover posted by a Canadian POW from Japan (and one to the same prisoner from his mother!). I have several covers posted by Canadian RCAF aircrew, all members of RAF Bomber Command, who were quite happily bringing the war to German civilians. To me, these postcards, covers, and stamps are instructive artifacts that bring mid-20th-Century history to life like no textbook ever could. If someone happens to see any of them, on a web page, in a discussion board post, or in a philatelic exhibition, and they are offended, well, they'll just have to be offended. I don't think that we philatelists should be bowdlerizing history out of personal prejudice.
Bob
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
09:07:46pm
I am truly amazed at the insensitivity of those who support posting such material. But I guess, since I only have to look through my eyes at myself in the mirror each morning, I only have to be able to say that I stood up and was counted, not whether I actually convinced anyone to do the right thing.
As to the statement that:
"I don't think that we philatelists should be bowdlerizing history out of personal prejudice."
(1) I did not remove anything from the original post, merely suggested that it was in poor taste and the person who posted it showed an insensitivity to others and implied he should voluntarily remove the post (he even tacitly admitted that he knew it would be offensive by stating "I hope it gets by the CENSORS!"), so how can you say I am "bowdlerizing history."
(2) There is a time and place for everything, but posting this card here, for anything other than archival reasons (which I serious doubt was the intent), is inappropriate.
(3) Yes, I do think of myself as a philatelist; and, yes I do have personal prejudices, and here is a list of those "personal prejudices" (I invite you to criticize me for feeling an animus borne of bias, if not rancor, toward any or all persons who fall into these categories): bigots, racists, bullies, and/or anyone who is insensitive to the feelings of others
I am through with this post now. I see there is no one else offended by this card, and therefore I will ignore such material in the future when I see it posted. Just remember, this is a public forum and we are judged by all who read our posts, whether they be members or not.
Bobby Barnhart
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
"I am truly amazed at the insensitivity of those who support posting such material."
So now I am "insensitive". Pray, tell me, how am I to know what might offend someone? Since anything might offend someone, it is obvious that I cannot post anything.
The Discussion Board rules state, "Abusive or otherwise inappropriate postings are not tolerated and will be immediately deleted by a moderator." I'm afraid that I am feeling abused by being characterized as "insensitive," but I rather doubt that Bobby's post will be deleted.
Login to Like
this post
Bobby: I don't have enough time to develop a longer post right now, but I also found the postcard insensitive in the context in which it was presented.
Please don't assume silence was assent. I just didn't think I could come up with better words than the ones you had already supplied.
-- Dave
Login to Like
this post
I'd like to add some thoughts to my previous posts in this thread: I don't believe that censorship serves anyone well, except, possibly, in cases of national security and criminal investigations. And I did not intend to accuse the moderator of censorship. The posting of the Panamanian postcard does not necessarily fall outside the topic of this thread, and philb had every right to post it. However, without context there really was no point in posting it!
We don't know why the postcard was published in the first place, although we are confident that it wasn't created in the name of ridding the world of poverty. Since philb did not explain why he purchased it, or why he chose to upload it to this thread, we are left to wonder why he did what he did. We are left to look at the postcard image and possibly feel just a bit of discomfort, or possibly a lot, depending on the context each of brings to this thread.
It is said, of course, that an image is worth a thousand words, but that's just not true. What unexplained images do is raise a thousand questions in the viewer's mind, and raise the possibility of dissent based on lack of knowledge. I think that posters of any images have the responsibility of explaining what their purpose is.
Bob Ingraham
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
This is for Antonio..no one else need reply ! Mea Culpa, if i had known the shock and awe that posting the card here would cause i would have sent it to you directly..But i didn't and i did ! At least i have an idea where folks stand..i want to thank my friends for their kind words...You know who you are and i will not soon forget you ! phil
Login to Like
this post
I am happy to see some familiar faces here.
My main collecting interest is the stamps and postal history of the Canal Zone and Panama.
I also collect classic Latin America, Spain, France, Portugal, Greenland, Iceland, Italy, Great Britain and the Commonwealth.
I very recently started a new blog called "Canal Zone Postal History: One cover at a time" canalzonepostalhistory.wordpress.com. I will feature a new cover each week or so until I run out (I am good for at least a year). I also plan on accepting cover images and writeups from others inteterested in the subject.
Cheers!
Antonio
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-07-18 22:27:14)
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.
18 Jul 2013
07:47:14pm
re: Hail and well met!
Hi Smauggie,
Good to see you here!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Hail and well met!
Glad to have you aboard Smauggie.
Mike
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
09:54:50pm
re: Hail and well met!
Hail, Hail, the gangs all here... Hello Antonio
Login to Like
this post
It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
23 Jul 2013
07:35:48pm
re: Hail and well met!
Welcome, Antonio. Enjoy SOR!
Login to Like
this post
re: Hail and well met!
I finally chose a picture. An admittedly younger and more tanned me cruising the Panama Canal.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Auctions
re: Hail and well met!
nice to see you, Antonio
David
Login to Like
this post
re: Hail and well met!
Love those Panama Canal cruises. What a blast!!!!!! Can't wait to do the new channel they are building. When we went though the locks, at that time were aboard the ship that paid highest fee at $250,000, just to go to Lake Gatun and dock, but understand the fees are much higher now. I believe that was the Princess Star, but don't quote me on that as my memory sucks, big time. I'm sure my wife will remember what time of the morning we went through and the numbers on the little engines that guided us through the lock were. We have been back to Panama a few more times, but have not entered the Canal since.
Mike
Login to Like
this post
re: Hail and well met!
In the picture, I was going through the locks on a 35-foot launch.
I did have dinner on the Princess Star when it was in town, though, for its maiden passage of the canal. To think we were on the same ship at the same time.
Login to Like
this post
re: Hail and well met!
Antonio,
I still have to add a picture myself. It was good to see you again at the library Saturday. I like how you organized your Minnesota covers by county. It's too late for me to change. I am older and more stubborn than you. The webmaster for this site,(Tim) was also at that meeting. It's a great group over here with more opportunities to buy and sell. Tim does a fantastic job with it. I think you will find all the guys here that you know from the other boards.
Pat
Login to Like
this post
re: Hail and well met!
And you put it up for auction I see.
Login to Like
this post
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
07 Mar 2014
11:40:32pm
re: Hail and well met!
Phil
This board does not have censors. However, I thought we had members who exercised good taste. I find the card offensive for various reasons, mostly because of the implied racism inherent therein. I am not about to delete it, but I would think you would consider removing it just to preserve your own integrity.
Bobby
Login to Like
this post
re: Hail and well met!
No Phil, Bobby is quite correct. Did you not see that the cat was naked?? Really now, you
ought to be much more careful lest the animal lovers who are part of our group be offended. Where is your compassion man, where is your good sense? Really, a most unusual disregard for the proper decorum.
We'll say no more about it then, assuming your eyesight played a trick on you, but really!!
All good thoughts,
Dan C.
(but remember we're keeping an eye on you)
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Hail and well met!
As probably the lone Panamanian around here, I understand that the original intent of the postcard was not good. I also know that Mr. Phil does not have a politically correct bone in his body which is a wonderful trait often reserved for the old and wise.
Login to Like
this post
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
08 Mar 2014
11:48:57am
re: Hail and well met!
I was raised in the Jim Crow South and had to work very hard for many years to excise the racist demon from my soul. Most Texans also did as I did, so perhaps the anathema toward any symbolic racist message is stronger than it should be in myself and others of my ilk. But then, perhaps it should be so with all civilized men and women - then perhaps there would not be so much hate and unnecessary death in this world.
You do as you please, and leave the post as is if you desire. There were many postcards of this type depicting “cute†little African American and Hispanic children published in the 1930s, 40s and 50s, and were very popular in the South. These postcards belittled the culture and racial heritage of a helpless, disadvantaged segment of the citizenry of our country, and I, for one, am not proud of that which passed for humor or condescending social attitudes in that era.
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Hail and well met!
Joking aside, Bobby raises a very real and just concern about our embedded bias towards many things. Way back when there was an Amos & Andy radio show that at the time I thought was innocently funny-but it was misguided & poked fun. I now understand that exactly those innocently aimed barbs were part and parcel of the negative bias built into our culture-and it is not acceptable or tolerable.
We all, no matter what our origins, have those unexamined biases towards many things. In this case Bobby highlights the race/black/white bias-it could just as easily have been the attitude towards women/religion/gender etc.
As we continue on our own individual and unique paths through life, uncovering those distracting biases become very important.The unspoken attitudes towards each other permeate the very conversations we have with those we love the most.The case can be made that it is precisely those unexamined issues that get between us and others, and can be shown to be at the heart of the misunderstandings that we have with each other-personally and on a much larger scale (State,Nation,World).
Take to heart the biblical story of the Tower of Babel-in a very real sense it is so-and part of our task is to overcome it in ourselves. So, Bobby and Phil, you have served to highlight that which must be highlighted as we continue our journey towards enlightenment. For that you are both to be applauded.
(Sadly though-I thought the observation about the cat was funny- apparently only to me. I must learn to listen to my wife more!.)
All good thoughts,
Dan C.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Hail and well met!
I see that people are more worried about offending others in the name of racism, but what about the living conditions of of this poor lad? That is the appalling issue to me. Maybe the cat is the one that supplied his "quiet feed" and not mom or pop. In actuality this wee tot probably never had a sick day in his life because his resistance was so high, from the way he lived. He is probably still alive and well, living in that same house as the picture was taken.
Mike
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Hail and well met!
I am offended by the colonial attitudes that resulted in the creation of such postcards, but I am not offended by the postcard itself. Images in themselves have no meaning. I have any number of postcards and stamps in my collection which depict disgusting people, circumstances, and acts. Some of them depict American presidents! But should I toss them all in the paper recycling bin (after thoughtfully shredding them so as not to offend any binners who might find them)? Nope, don't think so.
We philatelists deal almost exclusively with postal artifacts, which reflect the periods in which they were made. We can learn, and do learn, from those artifacts, although I'm not at all sure whether any society on earth is capable of learning anything in ways that would ensure a better future.
I have dozens of Nazi postcards in my collection. I have a cover posted by a prisoner at Dachau, another posted by a Japanese Canadian who was interned in a remote community in British Columbia after the attack on Pearl Harbor, a Russian stamp showing a Russian soldier bayonetting a German soldier, and a cover posted by a Canadian POW from Japan (and one to the same prisoner from his mother!). I have several covers posted by Canadian RCAF aircrew, all members of RAF Bomber Command, who were quite happily bringing the war to German civilians. To me, these postcards, covers, and stamps are instructive artifacts that bring mid-20th-Century history to life like no textbook ever could. If someone happens to see any of them, on a web page, in a discussion board post, or in a philatelic exhibition, and they are offended, well, they'll just have to be offended. I don't think that we philatelists should be bowdlerizing history out of personal prejudice.
Bob
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
08 Mar 2014
09:07:46pm
re: Hail and well met!
I am truly amazed at the insensitivity of those who support posting such material. But I guess, since I only have to look through my eyes at myself in the mirror each morning, I only have to be able to say that I stood up and was counted, not whether I actually convinced anyone to do the right thing.
As to the statement that:
"I don't think that we philatelists should be bowdlerizing history out of personal prejudice."
(1) I did not remove anything from the original post, merely suggested that it was in poor taste and the person who posted it showed an insensitivity to others and implied he should voluntarily remove the post (he even tacitly admitted that he knew it would be offensive by stating "I hope it gets by the CENSORS!"), so how can you say I am "bowdlerizing history."
(2) There is a time and place for everything, but posting this card here, for anything other than archival reasons (which I serious doubt was the intent), is inappropriate.
(3) Yes, I do think of myself as a philatelist; and, yes I do have personal prejudices, and here is a list of those "personal prejudices" (I invite you to criticize me for feeling an animus borne of bias, if not rancor, toward any or all persons who fall into these categories): bigots, racists, bullies, and/or anyone who is insensitive to the feelings of others
I am through with this post now. I see there is no one else offended by this card, and therefore I will ignore such material in the future when I see it posted. Just remember, this is a public forum and we are judged by all who read our posts, whether they be members or not.
Bobby Barnhart
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Hail and well met!
"I am truly amazed at the insensitivity of those who support posting such material."
So now I am "insensitive". Pray, tell me, how am I to know what might offend someone? Since anything might offend someone, it is obvious that I cannot post anything.
The Discussion Board rules state, "Abusive or otherwise inappropriate postings are not tolerated and will be immediately deleted by a moderator." I'm afraid that I am feeling abused by being characterized as "insensitive," but I rather doubt that Bobby's post will be deleted.
Login to Like
this post
re: Hail and well met!
Bobby: I don't have enough time to develop a longer post right now, but I also found the postcard insensitive in the context in which it was presented.
Please don't assume silence was assent. I just didn't think I could come up with better words than the ones you had already supplied.
-- Dave
Login to Like
this post
re: Hail and well met!
I'd like to add some thoughts to my previous posts in this thread: I don't believe that censorship serves anyone well, except, possibly, in cases of national security and criminal investigations. And I did not intend to accuse the moderator of censorship. The posting of the Panamanian postcard does not necessarily fall outside the topic of this thread, and philb had every right to post it. However, without context there really was no point in posting it!
We don't know why the postcard was published in the first place, although we are confident that it wasn't created in the name of ridding the world of poverty. Since philb did not explain why he purchased it, or why he chose to upload it to this thread, we are left to wonder why he did what he did. We are left to look at the postcard image and possibly feel just a bit of discomfort, or possibly a lot, depending on the context each of brings to this thread.
It is said, of course, that an image is worth a thousand words, but that's just not true. What unexplained images do is raise a thousand questions in the viewer's mind, and raise the possibility of dissent based on lack of knowledge. I think that posters of any images have the responsibility of explaining what their purpose is.
Bob Ingraham
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Auctions
re: Hail and well met!
This is for Antonio..no one else need reply ! Mea Culpa, if i had known the shock and awe that posting the card here would cause i would have sent it to you directly..But i didn't and i did ! At least i have an idea where folks stand..i want to thank my friends for their kind words...You know who you are and i will not soon forget you ! phil
Login to Like
this post