Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I found Stamporama while searching the web for the identity of some Tunis-Alger airmail stamps in my collection. There was an unusually friendly feel to the site as well as the answer to my question. (I have another question about the Tunis-Alger stamps-- if you're interested, it's under Africa at the top of the Discussions there.)
I began collecting on my own in grade school but soon became frustrated, unable to acquire the stamps I wanted with a kid's income. I finally sold the collection to finance a hot date when I was in high school.
Now in my sixties, I've begun collecting again, excited by being able to get many of the stamps I could only dream of as a child.
I think engraved stamps are by far the most beautiful. None of the later processes seem to come even close, so my interests are pre-1940 or so. Still trying to narrow that down some.
I respond to stamps more as art than to their scarcity, but age certainly can add a lot of beauty....
Looking forward to connecting with a lot of you!
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Welcome to the club Don, very friendly and extremely knowledgeable group, and willing to share very freely.
Vic
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Welcome Don. You will find this group very friendly and very helpful. I thoroughly enjoy this virtual stamp club. Like you, I am a newbie as well, and am learning a lot from this group.
Once again, welcome to Stamporama.
Stan
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Welcome Don!
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Welcome from Port Saint Lucie, Florida! Glad to have you join us!
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Welcome Don;
I too think that engraved stamps rock. Even badly done engravings look better than most other stamps.
One Country I think has great stamps that you should check out, is Czechoslovakia, from the 60s to the 90s. They have tons of stamps that are engraved and lithographed. They do these with the inks for the lithography in pastels and translucent inks to resemble watercolors. The engravings use inks that tend to be darker and opaque, giving them an appearance more like acrylics, with the lithography acting as color fill in. When this process is well registered so that the two plates line up, it produces stunning artwork.
Russia has similar techniques for many or their stamps also. Both countries subjects are very topical and colorful, but many collectors shun iron-curtain and East European material, based solely on value and collectability, which I think is a big mistake.
Many people just don't seem to get this and become very fixated on catalog values. They spend a lifetime collecting, with no thought at all as to the time spent and forget to just relax and enjoy the HOBBY. This is a HOBBY not an investment portfolio. If you want to invest in your retirement, and build a nestegg, for the golden years, why not flip hamburgers? It pays many times more than collecting stamps.
I collect mint/used world-wide up to 1970s. I stopped there because I was sick of supplements. I house my collection in Scott's big blues (internationals) volume 1-7 and 26 volumes of Scott's Green specialty series. I'm currently sorting thru about 150,000 stamps, of which 10,000-30,000 will end up in my albums. The rest will be sold on here and some other sites as well.
Sorry everyone for talking too long and ranting again.
Keep on stampin
TuskenRaider
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Hi Don and welcome, from SW Florida. I'm a big fan of engraved stamps also and agree that stamps are a lot like people in the fact that some of them age real well.
Mike
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Welcome, Don.
"None of the later processes seem to come even close, so my interests are pre-1940 or so. Still trying to narrow that down some."
I have found that there is no way to narrow stamps down. Even if you wanted to narrow it down to 1840. Think of all the different ways to collect just that one stamp.
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04:53:17pm
Welcome Don. Enjoy yourself here. I think we have the best damn group of philatelists around, and all of 'em are nice folk as well (although a couple may be certifiable).
Bobby
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05:12:31pm
Welcome to all the newcomers. Glad to see you found us.
I second what Bobby said and I'm willing to provide a list of the certifiable ones - I'm sure I'm on it! 😂
Kelly
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TuskenRaider-- Thanks for your reply! Not at all too long! And thanks for the tip about recent Czechoslovakian, Russian, and Eastern European stamps; I'll czech them out (heh-heh).
I've already decided to lose money enjoying my hobby.... I just hope I don't do it out of ignorance.
CapeStampMan-- I agree that "stamps are a lot like people in the fact that some of us age real well".
And to Michael 78651: I never meant to criticize anyone else's taste. As the saying goes, "I don't know art, but I know what I like." There are many beautiful stamps-- I just usually prefer the engraved ones.
Bobby1948: Thanks for the welcome. From your two quotes, it sounds like you might be politically active: These are the times that try men's souls....
And thanks to Sheepshanks, StanC, Tuscany4me, and philatelia for the warm welcomes!
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Welcome, Don. I look forward to seeing more posts from you.
Michael78561 said, "I have found that there is no way to narrow stamps down. Even if you wanted to narrow it down to 1840. Think of all the different ways to collect just that one stamp."
It does take great willpower (which I don't have) to keep one's collecting under control. I have a friend who has so far avoided what he calls "scope creep" — the tendency of collections to split, like an amoeba, into two separate collections, and then four, etc. This happened to me when I started to collect Canada and the U.S.
I started with a general Canada and U.S. collection, and was taken with both the airmail stamps of those countries, and the stamps related to the First and Second World Wars. So I started collecting airmail stamps of the world and worldwide stamps related to the world wars. Inevitably, I found interesting covers which had to be added to the collections. My Second World War collection split into collections focussing on the Battle of the Atlantic, a particular RCAF Bomber Command Squadron (Sqdn. 420), and Bomber Command generally. My interest in the two world wars morphed into interest in collecting stamps and covers related to other wars, namely the Vietnam War (I'm a Vietnam vet), the Philippine Insurrection, the Pershing "Punivtive Expedition" against the Mexican revolutionary Pancho Villa, the Korean War, and most recently the Algerian War.
TuskenRaider said, "This is a HOBBY not an investment portfolio. If you want to invest in your retirement, and build a nestegg, for the golden years, why not flip hamburgers? It pays many times more than collecting stamps."
I have long said that the biggest problem in philately is also its greatest strength: stamps and covers have value. If they didn't, we wouldn't have stamp shops or even vest-pocket dealers; because they do have value, we attract a few unscrupulous near-humans (I won't call them dealers) who would steal money from their mothers, and probably have. My best advice: spend what's necessary to feed your appetite for stamps and covers, as long as your family's stomachs don't go empty. But don't ever plan to make any money. At the same time, you can plan to recoup some of your money, because what you buy at retail prices will nearly always be salable at wholesale prices. I spent perhaps $1200 on an Eire collection, got tired of it, and sold it for $500. I was very pleased to get that cheque, on top of all of the pleasure I experienced and knowledge I gained while building that collection.
Bob
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"(although a couple may be certifiable)"
Bobby, I thought you knew that my certificate was #1, and I'm very proud of that!
"And to Michael 78651: I never meant to criticize anyone else's taste. As the saying goes, "I don't know art, but I know what I like." There are many beautiful stamps-- I just "
Don, I never took anything that you said as criticism of anyone. I'm a proud supporter of the saying that a hobby is meant for fun and leisure. Go for it the way you deem appropriate for yourself, and don't worry about how others collect or what they might say about how you collect. My point was trying to say that yes, we do try to narrow our collecting down, but even then there are plenty of ways that scope creep can come in. Like a bulging waistline why fight it? As for your collecting, you're doing fine. Enjoy and use the discussion boards for all that you need. You can make some good friends here.
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12:00:11am
Welcome Don!
I'm with you 100% on your taste in stamps!
Roy
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Michael 78651--
Apologies for misunderstanding that simple post. Would a mid-afternoon sugar crash work as an excuse?
My position on humanity: If you look closely enough, all of us are certifiable. However, that leaves no one with the sanity or authority to issue the certificate....
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12:24:06am
"Bobby, I thought you knew that my certificate was #1, and I'm very proud of that!"
It is not so much that I failed to mention you Michael, as I was afraid of scaring the new guy off. I didn't want Don to know we have our very own Norman Bates among our "numbers." It goes without saying that you are certified!
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Hi Don and welcome to SOR, I am from Algeria (north Africa), if there is a question about Algerian stamps, let me know, may I can help.
Foudutimbre (Stampmania)
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07:48:47am
Hello and welcome Don.
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Thanks, Alyn--
I really enjoyed your Gallery-- beautiful. I had no idea so many works of art had been portrayed on stamps.
Have you seen the Belgian Rubens series of 1939? (Scott B241-248)
Above is one from the series.
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This image of a stamp that Roy posted, and I am re-posting:
I believe that the portrait of Columbus on this 1921 Costa Rica stamp served as the inspiration for the creation of Mad Magazine's Alfred E. Neuman:
boB
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I love it!!! 
Too bad the connection wasn't made in time for Columbus' Day on Monday.
I wonder what native Americans think when that day comes around every year. I bet they'd like to see Mr. Newman's face superimposed over Chris'. 
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Ah yes, good ol' Christopher! The New World's first genocidal "Christian" sociopath.
Bob
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Bob, our man Columbus is hardly the first Christian sociopath. Turn of the last millenium found Christians killing Christians over Britagne, Wales, England, and all soliciting love and excommunication from the Pope (or Popes, as it sometimes fell out). Go further east, and the Crusades displayed Christianity in all its maniacal and murderous rage; and when a Crusader couldn't find a Muslim to kill, an Eastern Orthodox Christian and all their ready plunder would do just fine. Byzantium, after all, coexisted with the Muslims, but fell to the Crusaders. Head back to the Iberian penninsula and find all manner of twisted faith visited upon Moors and Jews alike. Columbus' dirtiest deed was merely opening doors no one knew existed.
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...don't get me started...
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"Well we were a slave country until 1865..no ?"
No. Slavery ended in 1863 when Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation.
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David said, "Bob, our man Columbus is hardly the first Christian sociopath."
Actually, what I said was that he (Columbus, not David) was the New World's first Christian sociopath. In 1492, the "New World" — which was new to Columbus if not Vikings and possibly other explorers — was devoid of Christians, a situation that had to be rectified, of course. The "Indians" that Columbus "discovered" did not all appreciate his interest in their eternal welfare (is Heaven a welfare state?), so they were forced to become Christians, even if they had first to be torn apart by Columbus's war dogs.*
In the end, after the Spaniards destroyed every civilization they came across in the name of Christ, many civilized, Christian nations issued stamps in Columbus's honour. After all, he had met the most important criteria to be so honoured: He was white, ill-educated, a Christian fundamentalist, macho, and a member of the elite. He believed that his discoveries fulfilled Biblical prophecy, along the lines of the much later but no less iniquitous American Manifest Destiny. Today, he would be a member of Congress.
Bob
* "Columbus, desperate to pay back dividends to those who had invested, had to make good his promise to fill the ships with gold. In the province of Cicao on Haiti, where he and his men imagined huge gold fields to exist, they ordered all persons fourteen years or older to collect a certain quantity of gold every three months. When they brought it, they were given copper tokens to hang around their necks. Indians found without a copper token had their hands cut off and bled to death. The Indians had been given an impossible task. The only gold around was bits of dust garnered from the streams. So they fled, were hunted down with dogs, and were killed. Trying to put together an army of resistance, the Arawaks faced Spaniards who had armor, muskets, swords, horses. When the Spaniards took prisoners they hanged them or burned them to death. Among the Arawaks, mass suicides began, with cassava poison. Infants were killed to save them from the Spaniards. In two years, through murder, mutilation, or suicide, half of the 250,000 Indians on Haiti were dead."
A Peoples' History of the United States — 1492 to Present, Howard Zin, copyright 1980
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Bob, throughout history, and continuing to this very day, dreadful and horrible deeds have been done in the name of the god that man created in his own image.
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After reading these comments I just started humming John Lennon's "Imagine." Hah! Now you're humming it too! That's your "earworm" for the day.
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I have hummed that song ever since it came out.
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Jeez, and all I wanted was to say hello to all the philatelists! 
I just got here, and in three days I'll get a rep as a troublemaker! Help! 
One reason I collect stamps is because it's such a calm, introspective hobby....
I know-- let's burn all the stamps with Columbus' picture on it! Oh, no-- that wouldn't help. Just kidding!
Maybe I'll specialize in stamps that feature really bad people. Anyone ever seen an issue with Lucretia Borgia? No? Well, maybe I'll have to settle for some American politicians.
I've toyed with the idea of using this quote for my byline: "It's usually wrong to ascribe intentional evil to any act that can just as easily be explained by stupidity."
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Now that's a byline!
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Don, don't look at yourself as a troublemaker, although you'd be in good company if you were 
. Look at yourself as someone who has the ability to stimulate discussions! 
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My apologies to Bob for my careless reading of his material:
"Columbus... was the New World's first Christian sociopath"
I wasn't familiar with his exploits in Haiti. Kinda wish I had remained more ignorant.
Michael, I'm afraid you are not quite correct:
"No. Slavery ended in 1863 when Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation."
the Emancipation Proclamation ended slavery in states in open rebellion; it did not end slavery in states still in the union, so Delaware and Kentucky, border states with divided loyalties, retained their slaves until December 18, 1865, when the 13th Amendment was ratified.
I live in the Hudson Valley, and it's interesting to visit the mansions along the river, most with their slave quarters. Many northern states had barely outlawed slavery before the civil war started.
David
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Okay, David, thanks for the correction. I was toying with that, but didn't include it in my response (wrong selective compression).
Many of the older mansions, now museums, in the south have their slave quarters still standing. A visit to President Monroe's home in Virginia is a good example.
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12:36:38pm
The Peculiar Institution by Kenneth M. Stamp (1964) is a great study of slavery in the USA.
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@ ByHand: Jeez, and all I wanted was to say hello to all the philatelists!
Well, you did! You didn't think we'd just say "Hello" and forget about, did you? We wanted to give you a proper Stamporama welcome!
You are obviously some kind of a revolutionary. After all, you said, "Maybe I'll specialize in stamps that feature really bad people. Anyone ever seen an issue with Lucretia Borgia? No? Well, maybe I'll have to settle for some American politicians." It's a good thing that HUAC isn't still operating. Or is it? 
Seriously (not that I wasn't serious in my previous paragraph), I have considered working on a web page and/or exhibit summarizing the notable successes and misadventures of the presidents pictured in the U.S. 1938 Prexy issue and in subsequent presidential issues (Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, and Regan.) Of course the former presidents still alive, as well as Obama, may be dead by the time I get around it to it!.
One of the lessons I've learned is that (almost) everybody does their best in their personal lives and careers. The problem is, of course, that our "best" is not necessarily beneficial for ourselves or others. Add stupidity, sociopathy, and venality, and the "best" may lead to disaster, which in my opinion is what has happened in the world since the Treaty of Versaille, when the major Western powers decided that they and they alone had the right to police the world, but not themselves.
A Lucretia Borgia stamp (actually, just a poster stamp, once available on eBay but no longer):
@ David: Apology accepted, but certainly not required!
Bob
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I had no idea that there'd actually be a Lucretia Borgia stamp! Who'd want to commemorate her? (Thanks, Bob. I downloaded the image.) I was kidding about specializing in stamps of bad people, too: I can't stomach issues from the Third Reich because I know too much about it. Older Germany --fine; but that period --no thanks. If I had my way, all the stamps from Hitler's regime would be valueless now.
The HUAC was dispersed into the IRS....
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Well Don, that is quite the discussion that you started, but very enjoyable reading. I just want to add my voice to the rest. It is good to have you with us.
Regards ... Tim.
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Thanks, Tim. Fun for me, too.
While I'm at it-- many thanks to foudutimbre, a new member from Algeria. His active help as well as his knowledge of Algerian stamps and the local scene helped me decide to buy a 1930 air mail cover I had been considering.
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It put a smile on my face today seeing all the posts in response to a new member. 
Let me add my welcome to you as well, Don, from Orlando. I like the engraved stamps as well-always admire the work that goes into their design.
I collected WW once, cut down to a few countries, but over time have started picking up some more, it's a hobby that has given me joy for now 40 years.
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Thank you, Bob from Orlando. Went to college just across from you in DeLand.
I'm constantly reconsidering my focus right now. Today I think I'll collect what rings my bell at the moment-- a Queen Elizabeth set from Romania (their queen, not England's), a Jesus-teaching set from Italy, a minisheet from a postwar philatelic exhibition in Prague. (I seem to respond to the art on a stamp more than anything; second to that is the history behind it.) Then I'll create a page to display and annotate them on. Forget about Minkus, Scott, Harris, etc. Who needs a paint-by-numbers kit?
Just an old guy in his sandbox....
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"Who needs a paint-by-numbers kit?"
Never heard it put that way before. Good one.
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Don welcome to SOR all the way from Northern Michigan "God's Country"
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Hello to everyone!
I found Stamporama while searching the web for the identity of some Tunis-Alger airmail stamps in my collection. There was an unusually friendly feel to the site as well as the answer to my question. (I have another question about the Tunis-Alger stamps-- if you're interested, it's under Africa at the top of the Discussions there.)
I began collecting on my own in grade school but soon became frustrated, unable to acquire the stamps I wanted with a kid's income. I finally sold the collection to finance a hot date when I was in high school.
Now in my sixties, I've begun collecting again, excited by being able to get many of the stamps I could only dream of as a child.
I think engraved stamps are by far the most beautiful. None of the later processes seem to come even close, so my interests are pre-1940 or so. Still trying to narrow that down some.
I respond to stamps more as art than to their scarcity, but age certainly can add a lot of beauty....
Looking forward to connecting with a lot of you!
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Welcome to the club Don, very friendly and extremely knowledgeable group, and willing to share very freely.
Vic
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Welcome Don. You will find this group very friendly and very helpful. I thoroughly enjoy this virtual stamp club. Like you, I am a newbie as well, and am learning a lot from this group.
Once again, welcome to Stamporama.
Stan
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Welcome Don!
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Welcome from Port Saint Lucie, Florida! Glad to have you join us!
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Welcome Don;
I too think that engraved stamps rock. Even badly done engravings look better than most other stamps.
One Country I think has great stamps that you should check out, is Czechoslovakia, from the 60s to the 90s. They have tons of stamps that are engraved and lithographed. They do these with the inks for the lithography in pastels and translucent inks to resemble watercolors. The engravings use inks that tend to be darker and opaque, giving them an appearance more like acrylics, with the lithography acting as color fill in. When this process is well registered so that the two plates line up, it produces stunning artwork.
Russia has similar techniques for many or their stamps also. Both countries subjects are very topical and colorful, but many collectors shun iron-curtain and East European material, based solely on value and collectability, which I think is a big mistake.
Many people just don't seem to get this and become very fixated on catalog values. They spend a lifetime collecting, with no thought at all as to the time spent and forget to just relax and enjoy the HOBBY. This is a HOBBY not an investment portfolio. If you want to invest in your retirement, and build a nestegg, for the golden years, why not flip hamburgers? It pays many times more than collecting stamps.
I collect mint/used world-wide up to 1970s. I stopped there because I was sick of supplements. I house my collection in Scott's big blues (internationals) volume 1-7 and 26 volumes of Scott's Green specialty series. I'm currently sorting thru about 150,000 stamps, of which 10,000-30,000 will end up in my albums. The rest will be sold on here and some other sites as well.
Sorry everyone for talking too long and ranting again.
Keep on stampin
TuskenRaider
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Hi Don and welcome, from SW Florida. I'm a big fan of engraved stamps also and agree that stamps are a lot like people in the fact that some of them age real well.
Mike
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Welcome, Don.
"None of the later processes seem to come even close, so my interests are pre-1940 or so. Still trying to narrow that down some."
I have found that there is no way to narrow stamps down. Even if you wanted to narrow it down to 1840. Think of all the different ways to collect just that one stamp.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
14 Oct 2014
04:53:17pm
re: Newbie from Colorado
Welcome Don. Enjoy yourself here. I think we have the best damn group of philatelists around, and all of 'em are nice folk as well (although a couple may be certifiable).
Bobby
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14 Oct 2014
05:12:31pm
re: Newbie from Colorado
Welcome to all the newcomers. Glad to see you found us.
I second what Bobby said and I'm willing to provide a list of the certifiable ones - I'm sure I'm on it! 😂
Kelly
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re: Newbie from Colorado
TuskenRaider-- Thanks for your reply! Not at all too long! And thanks for the tip about recent Czechoslovakian, Russian, and Eastern European stamps; I'll czech them out (heh-heh).
I've already decided to lose money enjoying my hobby.... I just hope I don't do it out of ignorance.
CapeStampMan-- I agree that "stamps are a lot like people in the fact that some of us age real well".
And to Michael 78651: I never meant to criticize anyone else's taste. As the saying goes, "I don't know art, but I know what I like." There are many beautiful stamps-- I just usually prefer the engraved ones.
Bobby1948: Thanks for the welcome. From your two quotes, it sounds like you might be politically active: These are the times that try men's souls....
And thanks to Sheepshanks, StanC, Tuscany4me, and philatelia for the warm welcomes!
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Welcome, Don. I look forward to seeing more posts from you.
Michael78561 said, "I have found that there is no way to narrow stamps down. Even if you wanted to narrow it down to 1840. Think of all the different ways to collect just that one stamp."
It does take great willpower (which I don't have) to keep one's collecting under control. I have a friend who has so far avoided what he calls "scope creep" — the tendency of collections to split, like an amoeba, into two separate collections, and then four, etc. This happened to me when I started to collect Canada and the U.S.
I started with a general Canada and U.S. collection, and was taken with both the airmail stamps of those countries, and the stamps related to the First and Second World Wars. So I started collecting airmail stamps of the world and worldwide stamps related to the world wars. Inevitably, I found interesting covers which had to be added to the collections. My Second World War collection split into collections focussing on the Battle of the Atlantic, a particular RCAF Bomber Command Squadron (Sqdn. 420), and Bomber Command generally. My interest in the two world wars morphed into interest in collecting stamps and covers related to other wars, namely the Vietnam War (I'm a Vietnam vet), the Philippine Insurrection, the Pershing "Punivtive Expedition" against the Mexican revolutionary Pancho Villa, the Korean War, and most recently the Algerian War.
TuskenRaider said, "This is a HOBBY not an investment portfolio. If you want to invest in your retirement, and build a nestegg, for the golden years, why not flip hamburgers? It pays many times more than collecting stamps."
I have long said that the biggest problem in philately is also its greatest strength: stamps and covers have value. If they didn't, we wouldn't have stamp shops or even vest-pocket dealers; because they do have value, we attract a few unscrupulous near-humans (I won't call them dealers) who would steal money from their mothers, and probably have. My best advice: spend what's necessary to feed your appetite for stamps and covers, as long as your family's stomachs don't go empty. But don't ever plan to make any money. At the same time, you can plan to recoup some of your money, because what you buy at retail prices will nearly always be salable at wholesale prices. I spent perhaps $1200 on an Eire collection, got tired of it, and sold it for $500. I was very pleased to get that cheque, on top of all of the pleasure I experienced and knowledge I gained while building that collection.
Bob
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re: Newbie from Colorado
"(although a couple may be certifiable)"
Bobby, I thought you knew that my certificate was #1, and I'm very proud of that!
"And to Michael 78651: I never meant to criticize anyone else's taste. As the saying goes, "I don't know art, but I know what I like." There are many beautiful stamps-- I just "
Don, I never took anything that you said as criticism of anyone. I'm a proud supporter of the saying that a hobby is meant for fun and leisure. Go for it the way you deem appropriate for yourself, and don't worry about how others collect or what they might say about how you collect. My point was trying to say that yes, we do try to narrow our collecting down, but even then there are plenty of ways that scope creep can come in. Like a bulging waistline why fight it? As for your collecting, you're doing fine. Enjoy and use the discussion boards for all that you need. You can make some good friends here.
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15 Oct 2014
12:00:11am
re: Newbie from Colorado
Welcome Don!
I'm with you 100% on your taste in stamps!
Roy
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Michael 78651--
Apologies for misunderstanding that simple post. Would a mid-afternoon sugar crash work as an excuse?
My position on humanity: If you look closely enough, all of us are certifiable. However, that leaves no one with the sanity or authority to issue the certificate....
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
15 Oct 2014
12:24:06am
re: Newbie from Colorado
"Bobby, I thought you knew that my certificate was #1, and I'm very proud of that!"
It is not so much that I failed to mention you Michael, as I was afraid of scaring the new guy off. I didn't want Don to know we have our very own Norman Bates among our "numbers." It goes without saying that you are certified!
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15 Oct 2014
07:48:47am
re: Newbie from Colorado
Hello and welcome Don.
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Thanks, Alyn--
I really enjoyed your Gallery-- beautiful. I had no idea so many works of art had been portrayed on stamps.
Have you seen the Belgian Rubens series of 1939? (Scott B241-248)
Above is one from the series.
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re: Newbie from Colorado
This image of a stamp that Roy posted, and I am re-posting:
I believe that the portrait of Columbus on this 1921 Costa Rica stamp served as the inspiration for the creation of Mad Magazine's Alfred E. Neuman:
boB
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I love it!!!
Too bad the connection wasn't made in time for Columbus' Day on Monday.
I wonder what native Americans think when that day comes around every year. I bet they'd like to see Mr. Newman's face superimposed over Chris'.
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Ah yes, good ol' Christopher! The New World's first genocidal "Christian" sociopath.
Bob
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Bob, our man Columbus is hardly the first Christian sociopath. Turn of the last millenium found Christians killing Christians over Britagne, Wales, England, and all soliciting love and excommunication from the Pope (or Popes, as it sometimes fell out). Go further east, and the Crusades displayed Christianity in all its maniacal and murderous rage; and when a Crusader couldn't find a Muslim to kill, an Eastern Orthodox Christian and all their ready plunder would do just fine. Byzantium, after all, coexisted with the Muslims, but fell to the Crusaders. Head back to the Iberian penninsula and find all manner of twisted faith visited upon Moors and Jews alike. Columbus' dirtiest deed was merely opening doors no one knew existed.
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re: Newbie from Colorado
"Well we were a slave country until 1865..no ?"
No. Slavery ended in 1863 when Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation.
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re: Newbie from Colorado
David said, "Bob, our man Columbus is hardly the first Christian sociopath."
Actually, what I said was that he (Columbus, not David) was the New World's first Christian sociopath. In 1492, the "New World" — which was new to Columbus if not Vikings and possibly other explorers — was devoid of Christians, a situation that had to be rectified, of course. The "Indians" that Columbus "discovered" did not all appreciate his interest in their eternal welfare (is Heaven a welfare state?), so they were forced to become Christians, even if they had first to be torn apart by Columbus's war dogs.*
In the end, after the Spaniards destroyed every civilization they came across in the name of Christ, many civilized, Christian nations issued stamps in Columbus's honour. After all, he had met the most important criteria to be so honoured: He was white, ill-educated, a Christian fundamentalist, macho, and a member of the elite. He believed that his discoveries fulfilled Biblical prophecy, along the lines of the much later but no less iniquitous American Manifest Destiny. Today, he would be a member of Congress.
Bob
* "Columbus, desperate to pay back dividends to those who had invested, had to make good his promise to fill the ships with gold. In the province of Cicao on Haiti, where he and his men imagined huge gold fields to exist, they ordered all persons fourteen years or older to collect a certain quantity of gold every three months. When they brought it, they were given copper tokens to hang around their necks. Indians found without a copper token had their hands cut off and bled to death. The Indians had been given an impossible task. The only gold around was bits of dust garnered from the streams. So they fled, were hunted down with dogs, and were killed. Trying to put together an army of resistance, the Arawaks faced Spaniards who had armor, muskets, swords, horses. When the Spaniards took prisoners they hanged them or burned them to death. Among the Arawaks, mass suicides began, with cassava poison. Infants were killed to save them from the Spaniards. In two years, through murder, mutilation, or suicide, half of the 250,000 Indians on Haiti were dead."
A Peoples' History of the United States — 1492 to Present, Howard Zin, copyright 1980
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Bob, throughout history, and continuing to this very day, dreadful and horrible deeds have been done in the name of the god that man created in his own image.
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After reading these comments I just started humming John Lennon's "Imagine." Hah! Now you're humming it too! That's your "earworm" for the day.
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re: Newbie from Colorado
I have hummed that song ever since it came out.
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Jeez, and all I wanted was to say hello to all the philatelists!
I just got here, and in three days I'll get a rep as a troublemaker! Help!
One reason I collect stamps is because it's such a calm, introspective hobby....
I know-- let's burn all the stamps with Columbus' picture on it! Oh, no-- that wouldn't help. Just kidding!
Maybe I'll specialize in stamps that feature really bad people. Anyone ever seen an issue with Lucretia Borgia? No? Well, maybe I'll have to settle for some American politicians.
I've toyed with the idea of using this quote for my byline: "It's usually wrong to ascribe intentional evil to any act that can just as easily be explained by stupidity."
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Now that's a byline!
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Don, don't look at yourself as a troublemaker, although you'd be in good company if you were . Look at yourself as someone who has the ability to stimulate discussions!
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My apologies to Bob for my careless reading of his material:
"Columbus... was the New World's first Christian sociopath"
I wasn't familiar with his exploits in Haiti. Kinda wish I had remained more ignorant.
Michael, I'm afraid you are not quite correct:
"No. Slavery ended in 1863 when Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation."
the Emancipation Proclamation ended slavery in states in open rebellion; it did not end slavery in states still in the union, so Delaware and Kentucky, border states with divided loyalties, retained their slaves until December 18, 1865, when the 13th Amendment was ratified.
I live in the Hudson Valley, and it's interesting to visit the mansions along the river, most with their slave quarters. Many northern states had barely outlawed slavery before the civil war started.
David
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Okay, David, thanks for the correction. I was toying with that, but didn't include it in my response (wrong selective compression).
Many of the older mansions, now museums, in the south have their slave quarters still standing. A visit to President Monroe's home in Virginia is a good example.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
17 Oct 2014
12:36:38pm
re: Newbie from Colorado
The Peculiar Institution by Kenneth M. Stamp (1964) is a great study of slavery in the USA.
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re: Newbie from Colorado
@ ByHand: Jeez, and all I wanted was to say hello to all the philatelists!
Well, you did! You didn't think we'd just say "Hello" and forget about, did you? We wanted to give you a proper Stamporama welcome!
You are obviously some kind of a revolutionary. After all, you said, "Maybe I'll specialize in stamps that feature really bad people. Anyone ever seen an issue with Lucretia Borgia? No? Well, maybe I'll have to settle for some American politicians." It's a good thing that HUAC isn't still operating. Or is it?
Seriously (not that I wasn't serious in my previous paragraph), I have considered working on a web page and/or exhibit summarizing the notable successes and misadventures of the presidents pictured in the U.S. 1938 Prexy issue and in subsequent presidential issues (Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, and Regan.) Of course the former presidents still alive, as well as Obama, may be dead by the time I get around it to it!.
One of the lessons I've learned is that (almost) everybody does their best in their personal lives and careers. The problem is, of course, that our "best" is not necessarily beneficial for ourselves or others. Add stupidity, sociopathy, and venality, and the "best" may lead to disaster, which in my opinion is what has happened in the world since the Treaty of Versaille, when the major Western powers decided that they and they alone had the right to police the world, but not themselves.
A Lucretia Borgia stamp (actually, just a poster stamp, once available on eBay but no longer):
@ David: Apology accepted, but certainly not required!
Bob
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I had no idea that there'd actually be a Lucretia Borgia stamp! Who'd want to commemorate her? (Thanks, Bob. I downloaded the image.) I was kidding about specializing in stamps of bad people, too: I can't stomach issues from the Third Reich because I know too much about it. Older Germany --fine; but that period --no thanks. If I had my way, all the stamps from Hitler's regime would be valueless now.
The HUAC was dispersed into the IRS....
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Well Don, that is quite the discussion that you started, but very enjoyable reading. I just want to add my voice to the rest. It is good to have you with us.
Regards ... Tim.
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Thanks, Tim. Fun for me, too.
While I'm at it-- many thanks to foudutimbre, a new member from Algeria. His active help as well as his knowledge of Algerian stamps and the local scene helped me decide to buy a 1930 air mail cover I had been considering.
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re: Newbie from Colorado
It put a smile on my face today seeing all the posts in response to a new member.
Let me add my welcome to you as well, Don, from Orlando. I like the engraved stamps as well-always admire the work that goes into their design.
I collected WW once, cut down to a few countries, but over time have started picking up some more, it's a hobby that has given me joy for now 40 years.
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Thank you, Bob from Orlando. Went to college just across from you in DeLand.
I'm constantly reconsidering my focus right now. Today I think I'll collect what rings my bell at the moment-- a Queen Elizabeth set from Romania (their queen, not England's), a Jesus-teaching set from Italy, a minisheet from a postwar philatelic exhibition in Prague. (I seem to respond to the art on a stamp more than anything; second to that is the history behind it.) Then I'll create a page to display and annotate them on. Forget about Minkus, Scott, Harris, etc. Who needs a paint-by-numbers kit?
Just an old guy in his sandbox....
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re: Newbie from Colorado
"Who needs a paint-by-numbers kit?"
Never heard it put that way before. Good one.
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re: Newbie from Colorado
Don welcome to SOR all the way from Northern Michigan "God's Country"
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